Chris Benoit found dead....

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Isn't this the way most big businesses work? I'm not trying to be antagonistic...it's a serious question.

Probably.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Isn't this the way most big businesses work? I'm not trying to be antagonistic...it's a serious question.

Unfortunately you are probably right about the majority of big Business.......But, I guess I am an eternal optimist in that I think you can still make Money and care for/take care of your people.

The Wrestling Business has always been full of Vince types, I think he just takes it to another level.

[JonInMiddleGA]

There's at least 1.14 Billion reasons (the current market cap for WWE stock) that I wouldn't expect to see the work load lessened noticeably.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

There's at least 1.14 Billion reasons (the current market cap for WWE stock) that I wouldn't expect to see the work load lessened noticeably.

Probably right Jon, and if this won't do it then nothing will.

I hope we see a few defections to TNA, with their lighter schedule, as hopefully some Wrestlers will begin to realize it is just not good to push so hard all the time. Christian made that move and lost a lot of Money, but I would imagine if asked, he would say he doesn't regret it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I hope we see a few defections to TNA, with their lighter schedule,

Worth nothing here though is that they're also starting to run house shows now, not to the extent of the WWE at this point of course, but still not the same light workload that it was until a few months ago.

[Ryche]

Looking back at that Regal interview, I'm sure he had a good idea of how this might turn out. He's always struck me as one of the most intelligent guys in the business.

I have a feeling this could have a pretty large impact as some of these wrestlers start evaluating their situations. Edge, Mysterio, Chavo, I could see all of them walking away from the business very soon. As could a lot of others that have been on the fence about retiring or have been around a long time.

This might be the event that makes McMahon take another look at how the business is run and hopefully he'll start making some changes. From everything I've been hearing, they have made an honest attempt to clean up steroids since Eddie's death. Maybe they'll start mandating offtime for the wrestlers as well. Although I think Benoit had about a 6 month break from wrestling not that long ago.

Even if we assume that all McMahon cares about is the money (which I don't believe actually) events like this do not help business. So hopefully something will be done.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

hehe okay.

it's like "dude...he killed his wife and his 7 year old kid. I don't care what his twisted mind was thinking. This isn't like elementary school where you get points for trying. You fucked up. doesn't matter what your INTENTION was. Your action was evil."

It's good that you can define things as either black or white.

There's just a lot of emotions and, I guess, sentimentality involved that greys it all out for me.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

It's good that you can define things as either black or white.

There's just a lot of emotions and, I guess, sentimentality involved that greys it all out for me.

If killing your wife and child doesn't darken those grays, then I couldn't hazard a guess as to what would.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Ryche

From everything I've been hearing, they have made an honest attempt to clean up steroids since Eddie's death. Maybe they'll start mandating offtime for the wrestlers as well. Although I think Benoit had about a 6 month break from wrestling not that long ago.

Problem is that he really made a big attempt until the heat on him was off, then he backed off. You'll notice Chris Masters got really skinny for a while right after the Eddy event, and then has gradually been getting bigger and bigger since. Steroids = money for Vince, and we all know Vince is about the money, so how long can he stay away from it?

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

If killing your wife and child doesn't darken those grays, then I couldn't hazard a guess as to what would.

When you've followed Benoit's career for the past 15 somewhat years, watch him come across as a guy who worked hard and someone who poured his blood, sweat, and tears to entertain people in a vicious business that more often than not rewarded politicians rather than honest guys, it's pretty hard to come to terms with what he has done.

I'm not saying that he didn't do it, or that it wasn't wrong. But when you see someone who, for the past decade or so, projected qualities that you strive hard to emulate and live up to, it is very difficult for some people, especially myself, to really accept that this guy that I've watched for the past decade or so basically went off the deep end and took the lives of his very own loved ones and his own.

I find it wierd that I don't feel rage or anger towards him. Just sadness. Not the sadness that you feel when losing a loved one, more like sadness for a fallen hero who succumbed to his own demons.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

When you've followed Benoit's career for the past 15 somewhat years, watch him come across as a guy who worked hard and someone who poured his blood, sweat, and tears to entertain people in a vicious business that more often than not rewarded politicians rather than honest guys, it's pretty hard to come to terms with what he has done.

None of that says anything at all about his character as a person.

If this story was about The Great Khali, or Mark Henry, nobody would be talking about grey areas. Benoit is getting the benefit of the doubt because he's a good wrestler, which is a ridiculous. He was a good wrestler who, even before all this went down, abandoned his family for another man's wife, and beat the crap out of her.

Benoit was a monster.

[Ksyrup]

Not having heard of this guy before Monday, I agree. Was all of this unknown before the murders - the domestic abuse, leaving his family, etc.? The way everyone in this thread talked about him, I had the feeling he was truly a good guy who somehow took a turn for the worst and this was completely out of character. But it's pretty obvious that this guy was a bad dude, and while you don't expect every bad person to kill his family, knowing now what I know, I can't say I'm surprised about this at all. The paranoia stuff is probably a new revelation, but still, this guy was a bad guy dressed up in a good guy wrestler persona.

I read somewhere that his wife's husband was also in the business and actually scripted the two of them (Chris and Nancy) getting together on the show, and then they turned it into a real-life soap opera and she left her husband for Benoit, and they both completely abandoned their families? What kind of fuck abandons his family like that - aside from Johnny Damon, of course?

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Not having heard of this guy before Monday, I agree. Was all of this unknown before the murders - the domestic abuse, leaving his family, etc.? The way everyone in this thread talked about him, I had the feeling he was truly a good guy who somehow took a turn for the worst and this was completely out of character. But it's pretty obvious that this guy was a bad dude, and while you don't expect every bad person to kill his family, knowing now what I know, I can't say I'm surprised about this at all. The paranoia stuff is probably a new revelation, but still, this guy was a bad guy dressed up in a good guy wrestler persona.

I read somewhere that his wife's husband was also in the business and actually scripted the two of them (Chris and Nancy) getting together on the show, and then they turned it into a real-life soap opera and she left her husband for Benoit, and they both completely abandoned their families? What kind of fuck abandons his family like that - aside from Johnny Damon, of course?

Happens everyday in real life. Strange talks.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Not having heard of this guy before Monday, I agree. Was all of this unknown before the murders - the domestic abuse, leaving his family, etc.?

Abandoning his family for another man's wife was well documented (it practically occurred on TV, since it actually started as a storyline where Nancy left her wrestler husband Kevin Sullivan for Chris Benoit). I hadn't heard the Domestic Battery story, but I'm sure it was known amongst wrestlers.

That's kind of of the thing that's sticking with me as the main part of this story winds down. If even before all this, Benoit was considered a "good guy" in the wrestling world, - what the hell are bad guys doing? If Benoit really had been "deteriorating" as all his defenders are saying, this aggressive, selfish behavior didn't magically start this weekend, and yet all the wrestlers just had glowing things to say about him.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by molson

Benoit is getting the benefit of the doubt because he's a good wrestler, which is a ridiculous.

No - Benoit is getting "the benefit of the doubt" (which I disagree with as well) because by every account of every person, wrestler and fan alike, that has ever met and known Chris Benoit, they knew him a genuinely kind, polite, pleasant person who loved his family, loved his kids, and loved his profession. That is why this story is so sensational and so hard to swallow - what happened was so completely out of character based on what everyone knew about Benoit.

If this had been Jake Roberts, or New Jack, we'd all be saying "yeah, kinda figured this would happen" based on what we all know about them.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

No - Benoit is getting "the benefit of the doubt" (which I disagree with as well) because by every account of every person, wrestler and fan alike, that has ever met and known Chris Benoit, they knew him a genuinely kind, polite, pleasant person who loved his family, loved his kids, and loved his profession. That is why this story is so sensational and so hard to swallow - what happened was so completely out of character based on what everyone knew about Benoit.

If this had been Jake Roberts, or New Jack, we'd all be saying "yeah, kinda figured this would happen" based on what we all know about them.

New Jack is a crazy mofo!!!

[Ksyrup]

The leaving his family thing, in and of itself, would have soured me on the guy. I can't see how so many wrestling fans can talk of how he was a good guy who worked hard, deserved the position he had, etc., when you had an example of him as a person practically laid out in front of you to witness first-hand. I think Johnny Damon is a scumbag of a human being whose choice of team just makes it easier to root against. But even when he was part of the feel-good story of the Red Sox, I still couldn't stand him and wished he wasn't involved. That will always color the way I view him, and I'm a bit surprised that sentiment doesn't appear to have played a part in the way any of you viewed him (at least, as I read the initial comments in this thread before the facts unfolded as they have). Just surprising, that's all.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

No - Benoit is getting "the benefit of the doubt" (which I disagree with as well) because by every account of every person, wrestler and fan alike, that has ever met and known Chris Benoit, they knew him a genuinely kind, polite, pleasant person who loved his family, loved his kids, and loved his profession. .

Except for the beating up his wife thing. And honestly, I don't think "nice guy" was Benoit's reputation (not knowing him personally), in the same way it was for say, Owen Hart. I had always heard "intense", "hard worker", etc.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

...because by every account of every person, wrestler and fan alike...

I couldn't help but notice yesterday that the same sort of reactions were coming from the few people in the community who had no connection to wrestling at all. The guy who ran the local pizza place, a cashier at the local grocery, etc.

That tied into something my wife & I have talked about with this, whether the impressions people had of him were just a carefully controlled act or if he did suddenly swerve off the deep end. I just have a hard time thinking anyone (and particularly someone noted for being a relatively poor actor) could be so consistently "in character" for the better part of 20 years without tipping off people who were around him so frequently, an impression that was reinforced for me with the comments of those who didn't know him from wrestling circles.

[Ksyrup]

It's easy to view someone as "nice" if you just have a passing interaction with them. There are probably plenty of fans to whom Barry Bonds has been nice. Also, the people around you who you like and who like you are going to put the best face on who you are as a person - that's just human nature. I think it's telling that the tribute that was aired the other night - when at the time it looked like Benoit was a victim - was nothing but positive. And then the facts come out, and we start hearing tidbits about domestic abuse, strange, irrational behavior, etc.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

No - Benoit is getting "the benefit of the doubt" (which I disagree with as well) because by every account of every person, wrestler and fan alike, that has ever met and known Chris Benoit, they knew him a genuinely kind, polite, pleasant person who loved his family, loved his kids, and loved his profession. That is why this story is so sensational and so hard to swallow - what happened was so completely out of character based on what everyone knew about Benoit.

If this had been Jake Roberts, or New Jack, we'd all be saying "yeah, kinda figured this would happen" based on what we all know about them.

Weren't you arguing against me yesterday for saying that maybe he wasn't a complete monster and somehow just went off the deep end?

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

It's easy to view someone as "nice" if you just have a passing interaction with them. There are probably plenty of fans to whom Barry Bonds has been nice. Also, the people around you who you like and who like you are going to put the best face on who you are as a person - that's just human nature. I think it's telling that the tribute that was aired the other night - when at the time it looked like Benoit was a victim - was nothing but positive. And then the facts come out, and we start hearing tidbits about domestic abuse, strange, irrational behavior, etc.

Which reminds me of one of my pet peeves. Let's there was a murder or a rape or a kidnapping. The pick up the guy and his name and mug are published. Then you send some reporter out to his neighborhood and every single frickin' time you will always find a neighbor that says, "he was nice, but quiet" and they publish that as if it means something. Most neighbors nowadays just see people coming and going and have no clue as to what they are really like. I guess if one is not running up and down the street terrorizing the neighborhood, then I guess they must be a nice person.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

when you had an example of him as a person practically laid out in front of you to witness first-hand.

It seems worth noting here that the divorce of Nancy & Kevin Sullivan took place in 1997, with the angle preceding it starting in '96. While the internet was certainly around and had already begun to influence pro wrestling, it was not as pervasive as it is today either. The circumstances of the relationship were public but I recall little being said about it beyond the basic outline - they were put in an angle together & it turned into something real.

Also affecting the perception had to be the fact that Kevin Sullivan was not a popular figure (a hated heel to the "marks" & a bad booker to the "smarts"), and that I don't recall ever hearing anything about the state of Benoit's first marriage prior to the affair with Nancy, happy/troubled/otherwise. Then the two men appeared to continue to work together without incident after the Sullivan's divorce, to the extent that it was occasionally joked that Kevin "booked his own divorce", a quick joke on one hand but also I believe indicative of suspicions that he may not have particularly minded the break-up himself.

Point of all this being to add some background as to why it might seem Benoit & Sullivan got a pass on their relationship. Truth is only the faintest of details seem to have been known about it, and while a lot of fans might not have approved of the basic idea of an affair leading to two divorces, there was also some suspicion that there was more to the two stories than we ever heard.

edit to add: The divorce rate in pro wrestling has to be well above the norm, or at least it seems that way considering how many cases I can think of off-hand. Further, as even my wife pointed out last night, although she genuinely dislikes wrestling but has been exposed to it by four generations of men in her life (grandfather through son), there's always been a lot of intermarriage among the participants - wrestlers frequently find themselves married to sisters & daughters and such of other wrestlers, and relationships with more than one wrester not uncommon (Lita-Matt Hardy-Edge being the most recent very public example).

[Flasch186]

I loved Kevin Sullivan in a demonic kind of way back in the day. He was the "evil Vince" before there was an "evil Vince."

I dont have ANY inside information but isnt this talk of people leaving, ie. Chavo, Edge, etc. a little overboard? I mean this is their career, what the heck else are they going to do?

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by molson

None of that says anything at all about his character as a person.

If this story was about The Great Khali, or Mark Henry, nobody would be talking about grey areas. Benoit is getting the benefit of the doubt because he's a good wrestler, which is a ridiculous. He was a good wrestler who, even before all this went down, abandoned his family for another man's wife, and beat the crap out of her.

Benoit was a monster.

I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt. I'm not saying what he did was acceptable. It was a horrible crime, and I have no doubt in my mind that what Benoit did was unjustifiable and simply inhumane.

Sure it's easy to paint the picture black or white whenever you're coming from a perspective outside of wrestling. Maybe it's easier if you see wrestling for what it is... just a form of entertainment. I guess I'm just too "into it" to actually be able to get out of the gray areas regarding my feelings of confusion towards this entire tragedy.

But I guess we will all have different opinions about Benoit as a person. I don't know what was going through his head, or the circumstances that led to this tragedy. It's not for me to judge or to put under a microscope. For some, he will go down as one of the most infamous people in professional wrestling because of what he did. For others, he will probably be given the benefit of the doubt, as you said, because he was a good wrestler. I'm just extremely sad and disappointed that someone who I probably rooted for most of my life, whose good traits I've tried to emulate as a person, ended his and his family's lives the way that he did.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I loved Kevin Sullivan in a demonic kind of way back in the day. He was the "evil Vince" before there was an "evil Vince."

I dont have ANY inside information but isnt this talk of people leaving, ie. Chavo, Edge, etc. a little overboard? I mean this is their career, what the heck else are they going to do?

They're going into real estate, I hear.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Point of all this being to add some background as to why it might seem Benoit & Sullivan got a pass on their relationship. Truth is only the faintest of details seem to have been known about it, and while a lot of fans might not have approved of the basic idea of an affair leading to two divorces, there was also some suspicion that there was more to the two stories than we ever heard.

And he probably wasn't THAT big of a jackass to write a book boasting about it like Damon did.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I dont have ANY inside information but isnt this talk of people leaving, ie. Chavo, Edge, etc. a little overboard?

I would think so, yes.

[Maple Leafs]

The wrestling business is taking a pounding today. For the first time, major media are asking some tough questions about the lifestyle and the answers aren't pretty. Steve Austin's ex-wife was on TV yesterday saying that domestic abuse and drug use are common and she wasn't surprised that it eventually came to this. There will be mroe stories like this if the right people are asked for their thoughts.

I can see this going one of three ways, in terms of media attention:

- The media pins the blame on roid rage, wraps the story up in a neat little package, and closes the book in one or two news cycles and moves on to the next controversy

- The media actually shines a light on the business. Tough questions get asked, not just about steroids but about travel schedules, pain killers, concussions, etc. Fans start to wake up to what's going on. Vince and othe promoters have to make changes because the old way isn't good business any more. And things slowly but surely start to get better.

- The media actually shines a light on the business... for a while. Vince gets ripped on tv, lots of scandal and allegations, plenty of mud-slinging. The wrestling industry takes a major hit. Then people get bored of the story and move on to something else. And things actually end up getting worse.

Anyone want to take bets on what happens?

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Point of all this being to add some background as to why it might seem Benoit & Sullivan got a pass on their relationship. Truth is only the faintest of details seem to have been known about it, and while a lot of fans might not have approved of the basic idea of an affair leading to two divorces, there was also some suspicion that there was more to the two stories than we ever heard.

All good points, but I think it says something about the blurring of reality/character in wrestling. Chris Benoit leaving his family for another man's wife - Fans response: "Hey, we don't know all the details". Kevin Sullivan's a bad booker who doesn't push Benoit enough. Fans: "That asshole is trying to ruin his career! Benoit has to get out!". No grey area on the latter. The Kevin Sullivans, the Vince Russos, the Kevin Nashs are far more universally hated than the Benoits, Edges, Austins, Snukas,

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I dont have ANY inside information but isnt this talk of people leaving, ie. Chavo, Edge, etc. a little overboard? I mean this is their career, what the heck else are they going to do?

Well, a guy like Edge has probably made enough money to walk away, although who knows what he did with it. There's precendent for it -- look at Chris Jericho. He saved his money, and walked away in his prime. Now he tours around with his novelty rock band and by all accounts is having a great time. Trish Stratus quit too recently, and Christian walked away from a lot more money to take a reduced schedule in TNA.

For whatever it's worth, all of those people are Canadian and all are friends of Edge. So if he wants to know what life on the other side is like, he can find out pretty easily.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

There's precendent for it -- look at Chris Jericho. He saved his money, and walked away in his prime. Now he tours around with his novelty rock band and by all accounts is having a great time.

Please. Take him back. The rock world doesn't want him.

[SnDvls]

Just to add what Jon has said.

When the story was "booked" (written) Chris & Nancy were forced to contine the wrestling story in the real world as well to not break "kayfabe" (wrestling and it's stories are fake). So they were told to hold hands in public and share a hotel room ect. to keep the story as real as possible.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Steve Austin's ex-wife was on TV yesterday

After Googling, I assume you mean Debra ... who's also the ex-wife of former Chicago Bear-turned-wrestler (although I use the term loosely) Steve "Mongo" McMichael.

By most accounts, trotting her out as a wife-done-wrong is even less credible than having Brian Christopher be the representative of pro wrestling (as was mentioned up the thread).

Not to say in the least that what she claimed doesn't happen, just pointing out that she isn't exactly the most credible person to be claiming it. (For those who don't remember her, she's generally thought of as a gold digger who'll do anything for attention & was reportedly trying once again to get a job with the WWE as recently as last year)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Please. Take him back. The rock world doesn't want him.

I'll have to disagree with you on that one.

While the first couple of cover albums were pretty campy (not really bad, just bar bandish), the latest has been one of the most listened to albums I've bought in the past few years. The songwriting is above average, the musicianship is competent, and there's some signs of versatility beyond what the covers displayed.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Please. Take him back. The rock world doesn't want him.

Well, that's exactly the point. It's not like he switched careers because he had some great untapped talent in the music world. He's just some goof in a bad rock band. But because he saved his money, now he can tour around and have a great time. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

... look at Chris Jericho. He saved his money, and walked away in his prime. Now he tours around with his novelty rock band and by all accounts is having a great time.

... and has spent the better part of the past year not-so-discreetly jockeying for better bargaining position with both the WWE & TNA by commenting on a possible return in the media.

I'm happy for him, don't get me wrong, glad that he took some time to do something else that was seemed to be a lifelong ambition. But his eventual return to the ring doesn't seem to be much of a question at this point, just a matter of when.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

By most accounts, trotting her out as a wife-done-wrong is even less credible than having Brian Christopher be the representative of pro wrestling (as was mentioned up the thread).

Not to say in the least that what she claimed doesn't happen, just pointing out that she isn't exactly the most credible person to be claiming it. (For those who don't remember her, she's generally thought of as a gold digger who'll do anything for attention & was reportedly trying once again to get a job with the WWE as recently as last year)

That's all true, it's also true that police have been called to Austin's house on more than one occasion, where injuries have been found on Debra. He's also has domestic violence conviction regarding her. He also beat up his new girlfriend.

Edit: None of this seems to be considered as much of a sin in the wrestling world as say, not pushing CM Punk enough. Which makes wrestling considerably different, for some reason, to the legitimate sports leagues in that regard (look how we obsess over the morality of the Bengals and Trailblazers, putting character first, talent second).

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not to say in the least that what she claimed doesn't happen, just pointing out that she isn't exactly the most credible person to be claiming it. (For those who don't remember her, she's generally thought of as a gold digger who'll do anything for attention & was reportedly trying once again to get a job with the WWE as recently as last year)

Well, there's going to be credibility issues with virtually anyone inside the business who talks about this. That's part of the problem, virtually nobody is squeaky clean.

And what's the knock on Brian Christopher being a guest? He's been in the business a long time, he had a run with the WWE, he should know what he's talking about. Does his voice not count because he was a jobber?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

- The media pins the blame on roid rage, wraps the story up in a neat little package, and closes the book in one or two news cycles and moves on to the next controversy

Anyone want to take bets on what happens?

That's my bet. This is a bizarre case, and a horrible crime, and its a sensational story, but there's nothing here to drag it out for months to keep it in the media, or to keep it coming back. There will be a toxicology report in a little under 2 weeks that will make a headline, and maybe a couple reports after that about the violent, dangerous, destructive world of professional wrestling, and that will be it. If there was a murder trial, I'd suggest differently, but with this being a murder/suicide, it makes for a *very* sensational story right now but nothing to keep it in the spotlight for a long enough term to make a difference.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Weren't you arguing against me yesterday for saying that maybe he wasn't a complete monster and somehow just went off the deep end?

No - well, I don't think so - I believe from what limited information we know that he probably was as nice and great of a guy as everyone associated with him (that are still alive, TIC) says he was, and he most likely had some kind of severe mental break from reality. I even posted as such earlier in the thread. I did say, however, that he doesn't deserve any praise or anything like that - he's a child killer first and foremost and warrants all the scorn he's getting.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'll have to disagree with you on that one.

While the first couple of cover albums were pretty campy (not really bad, just bar bandish), the latest has been one of the most listened to albums I've bought in the past few years. The songwriting is above average, the musicianship is competent, and there's some signs of versatility beyond what the covers displayed.

Meh. Standard 80s metal fare. I have a Stuck Mojo album, so I know the musicians are decent, but there's really nothing that interests me about them. Kinda like Godsmack - just standard, mediocre, rehashed metal. I'll be the first to admit, though, that the cartoonish buffoon lead singer character is an instant turn off, regardless of how great the music could be. Leave the bigger-than-the-music personalities to other genres; I like my metal undiluted by that crap.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Meh. Standard 80s metal fare. I have a Stuck Mojo album, so I know the musicians are decent, but there's really nothing that interests me about them. Kinda like Godsmack - just standard, mediocre, rehashed metal. I'll be the first to admit, though, that the cartoonish buffoon lead singer character is an instant turn off, regardless of how great the music could be. Leave the bigger-than-the-music personalities to other genres; I like my metal undiluted by that crap.

I think you have a metal problem, sir. Perhaps even an... addiciton?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

And what's the knock on Brian Christopher being a guest? He's been in the business a long time, he had a run with the WWE, he should know what he's talking about. Does his voice not count because he was a jobber?

Not so much that he was a jobber, mostly it was just a shot at how far down the ladder a show went to find a wrestler to put on camera. I mean, he's not Erik Watts, but he's closer to that than not.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Meh. Standard 80s metal fare.

While Enemy was a somewhat catchy but otherwise unremarkable song,
I thought Nameless Faceless was a really underrated gem. I also liked, in a way, seeing the growth of sorts from straight '80s covers to a more modern sound (even though I generally prefer the 80s sound to the current).

Certainly the next album will be a big test to see if there's really much more there, but I saw at least some indications that there might be more than the first few projects would have led me to believe.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not so much that he was a jobber, mostly it was just a shot at how far down the ladder a show went to find a wrestler to put on camera. I mean, he's not Erik Watts, but he's closer to that than not.

That, and I think he has a reputation as sort of an immature, druggie goofball (which was cemented after he actually got re-hired by the WWE around 2003, then got fired after one show for getting caught with drugs at the Canadian border)

So it's kind of funny to see him in any serious context.

[Ksyrup]

I'm a metal snob in a wrestling thread. Ima get pounded.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by molson

That, and I think he has a reputation as sort of an immature, druggie goofball (which was cemented after he actually got re-hired by the WWE around 2003, then got fired after one show for getting caught with drugs at the Canadian border)

So it's kind of funny to see him in any serious context.

The first comparison I though of was how they always drag out Mancow everytime radio "shock-jocks" are in the news. Seriously, could there be anyone less relevant?

[EagleFan]

Damn, this is the first I heard the rest oif the story. Now I'm pissed off for actually watching the tribute and feeling sad for him. I hope there's a special place in hell set aside for him now.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Damn, this is the first I heard the rest oif the story. Now I'm pissed off for actually watching the tribute and feeling sad for him. I hope there's a special place in hell set aside for him now.

It would go well with the special place in hell he was probably in to get himself to this point...