PC Diagnosis

Glengoyne · 10-23-2005, 08:50 PM

Gotta Type Fast, well at least I think I do.

Starting Friday my computer started rebooting after a period of uptime. Just all of the sudden, it reboots. I left CM 03/04(I'll be upgrading next when WWSM is released) running after My Dag and Red had defeated Arsenal 6-nil, but returned to a login prompt.

In any case after initially several hours the machine rebooted, and then allowed me to run for another few hours before rebooting again. The window of usability is narrowing. Only about an hour last iteration.

more to come

Glengoyne · 10-23-2005, 08:53 PM

Dola,

I've taken the sides off of my case, and have fully exposed it to the air. My CPU fan is turning...apparently full speed. I am noting some dirt build up on it though. The fan for the Power supply isn't turning at all, but I don't think a PS would shut off due to heat. In my experience they just churn and churn until they burn themselves out.

My video card ATI Radeon 9600 (XP?) has no fan on its heat sink.

Any Ideas about a likely suspect?

Airhog · 10-23-2005, 08:55 PM

Are you home when this happens? I ask this because I had a similar problem with my new computer being off, when I got home from work, or when I woke up. the culprit was the power going out for a few seconds.

You PS could be overheating, and causing the problem. Since the fan is out on it, I would recommend replacing that component first.

TroyF · 10-23-2005, 08:57 PM

This could essentially be anything. I've seen a bad peice of hardware cause a system to reboot. It could also (though not likely) be something software related.

About the only thing I can reccomend would be to pull and change things one by one and see if anything you do ends the issue. I'd start at memory sticks and move from there.

jeff061 · 10-23-2005, 08:58 PM

Agree with Troy.

May be worthwhile going into the BIOS and checking your temps though.

Glengoyne · 10-23-2005, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airhog

Are you home when this happens? I ask this because I had a similar problem with my new computer being off, when I got home from work, or when I woke up. the culprit was the power going out for a few seconds.

You PS could be overheating, and causing the problem. Since the fan is out on it, I would recommend replacing that component first.

It rebooted while my wife was posting to a newsgroup. So the utility power isn't the culprit. I'm thinking the same as you. I'll replace the Power supply tomorrow, and get some canned air to blow out around the CPU, and the inside of the chassis in general.

I live in the country, and the dust here is horrible, so the inside of my computer is dirtier than most I've peeked into.

Glengoyne · 10-23-2005, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff061

Agree with Troy.

May be worthwhile going into the BIOS and checking your temps though.

Ah the bios. I've been looking for Asus utilities to check the temps. I completely forgot about them being available in the BIOS.

I'm starting to hope for an upgrade, but the wife isn't cooperative.

"Honey I'm afraid my computer is dead"

"YOUR USING IT!!!!"

Anyways

Off to reboot to check the bios.

Oh what would be considered hot? And just in case there is a fan RPM speed listed...anyone know what that should be?

Draft Dodger · 10-23-2005, 09:03 PM

my guess is power supply too.

Airhog · 10-23-2005, 09:05 PM

Depends on the processor. AMD's run a little hot. I would say anything over 60 is too hot

Glengoyne · 10-23-2005, 09:15 PM

Ah

The BIOS says CPU running at 73 C/163 F

The Motherboard temp is 35C/95F

and the CPU fan speed is a steady 4655 RPM

As I started typing this, I noted that there IS a fan on the MB that isn't turning.

I'm digging up my manual now to see what that little fan that isn't on the CPU is.

PilotMan · 10-23-2005, 09:16 PM

My desktop did this and I went through a lot of frustration over it. In the end it was a bad memory simm. Swapped it out for a new one and it ran good as new. My guess is that it is a hardware problem, something is failing and the PC doesn't like it.

Glengoyne · 10-23-2005, 09:16 PM

All right.

That little doohicky with a dead fan is the system controller. I think I'll be powering down now.

MizzouRah · 10-23-2005, 10:41 PM

Yep, I would start with that fan, but no spinning fan on the PS isn't good either.

MikeVic · 10-23-2005, 10:51 PM

RAM seems to be a culprit in many general errors too. There seems to be a lot of faulty RAM, no matter what kind you buy.

jeff061 · 10-24-2005, 04:56 AM

Idling at 73 C is real high. It could very well be hitting 85-90 under a full load. Not sure the power supply could cause temps this high. At max you should probably be under 50 idling and under 60 on a full load.

Glengoyne · 10-24-2005, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff061

Idling at 73 C is real high. It could very well be hitting 85-90 under a full load. Not sure the power supply could cause temps this high. At max you should probably be under 50 idling and under 60 on a full load.

My planned course of action is to buy some canned air, a new Power Supply, and take the CPU and System controller fans to a PC store to see if I can get suitable replacements for them.

The system controller fan is an odd configuration. It looks like the fan sits in a chassis, that is screwed into the motherboard. This chassis then uses a spring mechanism from two corners to apply downward force on the motherboard. I'm not real confident that I'll be able to get a replacement for that fan. I'm also not sure that my CPU fan is turning fast enough. The example in the MB manual shows a CPU speed of 6500 RPM.

I'll come back and hopefully have a resolution tonight...otherwise I'll be back scratching my head some more.

Glengoyne · 10-24-2005, 05:14 PM

Went to a local PC place, and the folks there seemed to think that the sudden onset of high temp for the CPU could be just an early indication that my CPU is about dead.

I sprung for a new power supply, but felt that if my CPU is going, there is no point in spending money on fans, if I'll have to just shell out the bucks for a moderately better MB/CPU combo.

Right now I think I'm looking to go bottom of the barrel cheap. I've got an AMD 1800+ with 512MB of 2100 DDR ram. The local shop can get me out the door with a AMD Sempron(sp?) 2800 on a Giga-Byte Mother board that will supposedly run my old 2100 RAM for $150. I can do better than that online, but I can pick up this on the way home tonight.

MikeVic · 10-24-2005, 05:18 PM

I'll post this harddrive question here...

What is a good hard drive temp? Mine's running between 56-66 celcius, and makes some whirring noise when my computer first turns on. But makes no additional noises after that... think it's a sign of a harddrive about to die?

Glengoyne · 10-24-2005, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I'll post this harddrive question here...

What is a good hard drive temp? Mine's running between 56-66 celcius, and makes some whirring noise when my computer first turns on. But makes no additional noises after that... think it's a sign of a harddrive about to die?

I'm going to venture a guess that if your hard drive is running nearly as hot as my CPU, that your hard drive has bigger problems than my CPU. My hard disks are relatively cool to the touch. Meaning that I'd certainly not burn myself if I held one in my hand.

dunkem · 10-24-2005, 07:12 PM

Glengoyne,

I experienced a problem similar to yours. My power supply's fan stopped turning and started to freeze up and/or reboot after a while. From what you described, it may be the same for you.

With my power supply, the fan stopped and I was able to get it spinning again by using a pencil to help it along. This would work for a while, but then the fan stopped reacting to the extra push of the pencil. Back then, I couldn't figure out how to take off the power supply to replace it since there were no screws and it seemed like it was connected to the casing. I ended up using a small regular fan to blow into the power supply to cool it off. This worked until I got a new computer a year later.

I think when your power supply gets to a critical temperature, your computer automatically shuts down. I thought it was a virus or something initially, but when I got the power supply fan to temporarily work or cooled it off with an external fan, the computer worked okay so I knew it was the power supply that was the culprit.

phyrebird · 10-24-2005, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Went to a local PC place, and the folks there seemed to think that the sudden onset of high temp for the CPU could be just an early indication that my CPU is about dead.

I sprung for a new power supply, but felt that if my CPU is going, there is no point in spending money on fans, if I'll have to just shell out the bucks for a moderately better MB/CPU combo.

Right now I think I'm looking to go bottom of the barrel cheap. I've got an AMD 1800+ with 512MB of 2100 DDR ram. The local shop can get me out the door with a AMD Sempron(sp?) 2800 on a Giga-Byte Mother board that will supposedly run my old 2100 RAM for $150. I can do better than that online, but I can pick up this on the way home tonight.

Couple things:

Bear in mind that the Sempron is AMD's equivalent to Intel's Celeron... performance loss may follow.

Second, that chipset (controller) fan that you mentioned can cause all kinds of weirdness when it allows overheating.

If I were to suggest any course of action, it'd be the power supply, a new CPU fan, and yes, you can replace that chipset fan. You'll have to remove the motherboard to do it, but they're very replacable.

Glengoyne · 10-24-2005, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phyrebird

Couple things:

Bear in mind that the Sempron is AMD's equivalent to Intel's Celeron... performance loss may follow.

Second, that chipset (controller) fan that you mentioned can cause all kinds of weirdness when it allows overheating.

If I were to suggest any course of action, it'd be the power supply, a new CPU fan, and yes, you can replace that chipset fan. You'll have to remove the motherboard to do it, but they're very replacable.

I didn't realize that the sempron was the equivalent of the Celeron. It was my understanding that it was in the same class as my old XP 1800+, just with a few more megahertz and a 333 bus. Are you saying it is equivalent to the Celeron because it is not one of the AMD 64 bit chips?

jeff061 · 10-24-2005, 07:56 PM

I seem to remember reading awhile back that the Athlon XP line was rebranded into their budget "Sempron" line once the 64's hit the market. So I believe you're both right

.

Glengoyne · 10-25-2005, 07:40 PM

Just to let everyone who helped know the status. I've replaced my powersupply, and that seems to have done the trick. The cpu fan still spins at about the same speed, but the CPU's temp doesn't go through the roof anymore. It idles at about 63 C, the same as my wife's computer. It took me some time to realize it, but she has the exact same MB/CPU/Cooling solution that I do. After I played about an hour of CM, the temp was 67 C and steady. When I walked away and came back thirty minutes later, the temp held steady in the low 60s.

So it looks like I might not be getting an upgrade anytime soon.

10-23-2005, 08:55 PM	#3
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	Are you home when this happens? I ask this because I had a similar problem with my new computer being off, when I got home from work, or when I woke up. the culprit was the power going out for a few seconds. You PS could be overheating, and causing the problem. Since the fan is out on it, I would recommend replacing that component first. __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

10-23-2005, 08:58 PM	#5
jeff061 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MA	Agree with Troy. May be worthwhile going into the BIOS and checking your temps though. __________________

10-23-2005, 09:03 PM	#8
Draft Dodger Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Keene, NH	my guess is power supply too. __________________ Mile High Hockey

10-23-2005, 09:05 PM	#9
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	Depends on the processor. AMD's run a little hot. I would say anything over 60 is too hot __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

10-23-2005, 09:16 PM	#11
PilotMan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Seven miles up	My desktop did this and I went through a lot of frustration over it. In the end it was a bad memory simm. Swapped it out for a new one and it ran good as new. My guess is that it is a hardware problem, something is failing and the PC doesn't like it. __________________ He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops. Like Steam? Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam

10-23-2005, 08:53 PM	#2
Glengoyne Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Fresno, CA	Dola, I've taken the sides off of my case, and have fully exposed it to the air. My CPU fan is turning...apparently full speed. I am noting some dirt build up on it though. The fan for the Power supply isn't turning at all, but I don't think a PS would shut off due to heat. In my experience they just churn and churn until they burn themselves out. My video card ATI Radeon 9600 (XP?) has no fan on its heat sink. Any Ideas about a likely suspect?

10-23-2005, 08:57 PM	#4
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	This could essentially be anything. I've seen a bad peice of hardware cause a system to reboot. It could also (though not likely) be something software related. About the only thing I can reccomend would be to pull and change things one by one and see if anything you do ends the issue. I'd start at memory sticks and move from there.

10-23-2005, 09:15 PM	#10
Glengoyne Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Fresno, CA	Ah The BIOS says CPU running at 73 C/163 F The Motherboard temp is 35C/95F and the CPU fan speed is a steady 4655 RPM As I started typing this, I noted that there IS a fan on the MB that isn't turning. I'm digging up my manual now to see what that little fan that isn't on the CPU is.

10-23-2005, 10:41 PM	#13
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Troy, Mo	Yep, I would start with that fan, but no spinning fan on the PS isn't good either.

10-23-2005, 10:51 PM	#14
MikeVic Head Coach Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hometown of Canada	RAM seems to be a culprit in many general errors too. There seems to be a lot of faulty RAM, no matter what kind you buy.

10-24-2005, 04:56 AM	#15
jeff061 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MA	Idling at 73 C is real high. It could very well be hitting 85-90 under a full load. Not sure the power supply could cause temps this high. At max you should probably be under 50 idling and under 60 on a full load. __________________ Last edited by jeff061 : 10-24-2005 at 04:57 AM.

10-24-2005, 05:14 PM	#17
Glengoyne Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Fresno, CA	Went to a local PC place, and the folks there seemed to think that the sudden onset of high temp for the CPU could be just an early indication that my CPU is about dead. I sprung for a new power supply, but felt that if my CPU is going, there is no point in spending money on fans, if I'll have to just shell out the bucks for a moderately better MB/CPU combo. Right now I think I'm looking to go bottom of the barrel cheap. I've got an AMD 1800+ with 512MB of 2100 DDR ram. The local shop can get me out the door with a AMD Sempron(sp?) 2800 on a Giga-Byte Mother board that will supposedly run my old 2100 RAM for $150. I can do better than that online, but I can pick up this on the way home tonight.

10-24-2005, 05:18 PM	#18
MikeVic Head Coach Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hometown of Canada	I'll post this harddrive question here... What is a good hard drive temp? Mine's running between 56-66 celcius, and makes some whirring noise when my computer first turns on. But makes no additional noises after that... think it's a sign of a harddrive about to die?

10-24-2005, 07:12 PM	#20
dunkem Mascot Join Date: May 2001	Similar problem Glengoyne, I experienced a problem similar to yours. My power supply's fan stopped turning and started to freeze up and/or reboot after a while. From what you described, it may be the same for you. With my power supply, the fan stopped and I was able to get it spinning again by using a pencil to help it along. This would work for a while, but then the fan stopped reacting to the extra push of the pencil. Back then, I couldn't figure out how to take off the power supply to replace it since there were no screws and it seemed like it was connected to the casing. I ended up using a small regular fan to blow into the power supply to cool it off. This worked until I got a new computer a year later. I think when your power supply gets to a critical temperature, your computer automatically shuts down. I thought it was a virus or something initially, but when I got the power supply fan to temporarily work or cooled it off with an external fan, the computer worked okay so I knew it was the power supply that was the culprit.

10-24-2005, 07:56 PM	#23
jeff061 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MA	I seem to remember reading awhile back that the Athlon XP line was rebranded into their budget "Sempron" line once the 64's hit the market. So I believe you're both right . __________________

10-25-2005, 07:40 PM	#24
Glengoyne Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Fresno, CA	Just to let everyone who helped know the status. I've replaced my powersupply, and that seems to have done the trick. The cpu fan still spins at about the same speed, but the CPU's temp doesn't go through the roof anymore. It idles at about 63 C, the same as my wife's computer. It took me some time to realize it, but she has the exact same MB/CPU/Cooling solution that I do. After I played about an hour of CM, the temp was 67 C and steady. When I walked away and came back thirty minutes later, the temp held steady in the low 60s. So it looks like I might not be getting an upgrade anytime soon.

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