NHL reinstates Todd Bertuzzi

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Bertuzzi did a stupid, thuggish thing and Moore suffered a serious injury. There, was that so hard? It's possible to criticize the guy without pulling hysterical facts out of the air.

Yes, but without the absurd hyperbole that conjures up the image of him going Last Boy Scout on Moore, it doesn't seem nearly as bad

SI

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Once again, it would be great to talk about this without the dramatics. He didn't "nearly kill" anyone. There is zero suggestion that Moore was ever in any danger of dying. He didn't have a halo, let alone for a full year. I honestly don't know it you guys are just making this up for the spectacle of it, or if you're getting such one-sided reporting in Colorado that you really think this stuff is true.

Bertuzzi did a stupid, thuggish thing and Moore suffered a serious injury. There, was that so hard? It's possible to criticize the guy without pulling hysterical facts out of the air.

OK, Moore had a halo for a few days and then went down to a full neck brace for over a year. My bad.

And don't give me this "he wasn't in any danger of dying" bunch of BS. He was nailed from behind and knocked out cold. His face was then driven into the ice. Maybe Moore wasn't in danger of dying, but many people in that situation would be.

You'll have to cut me some slack if I'm a little emotional after seeing the guy who did that despicable act come out and try to play himself off as the vicitm in all of this. I'm not going to apologize for the fact that disgusts me.

Hockey will be better off for this dumb ass leaving the league. In order to be a hockey fan I'll have to stomach him until he does retire.

This has nothing to do with me being an Avs fan. If the roles were reversed, I'd be speaking like this against Moore. (and please don't compare what Bertuzzi did to Moore's "cheap" shot earlier in the month. Not only was that cheap shot not penalized during the game, it wasn't penalized on review either.) And his shot was a minor thing compared to what Bertuzzi did.

Like I said, I was really ready to just let it drop until today. After hearing Bertuzzi try and play himself off as the martyr, I truly want to see him out of this league.

And no. . . I don't want to see him get injured, have a cheap shot happen to him, or anything else. I'd just like to see him suck and be forced into retirement. Nobody, not even this scumbag, should ever have to go through what Moore has went through. Not even the dirtbag who put him through it.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by TroyF

(and please don't compare what Bertuzzi did to Moore's "cheap" shot earlier in the month. Not only was that cheap shot not penalized during the game, it wasn't penalized on review either.)

So the league has the spine of a slug when it decides Bertuzzi has been punished enough, but is the font of all wisdom when it decides Moore's elbow on Naslund was OK?

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Seeing how Troy is an Avs fan explains it all. If May supposedly put a bounty on Moore which encouraged this action as Moore claims, I don't see you railing against his signing by Colorado.

Hmm, I would be interested by your take on the Claude Lemieux cheap shot on Kris Draper a few years back. I am sure you were talking that up as an accident and/or part of the rough play in hockey like MOST Avs fans were at the time (a complete double standard) - no life time suspension there. In fact, if you had read my post, you would see that the NHL has never handed out a life time suspension let alone a longer one than Bertuzzi got for much dangerous on-ice activities such as stick swinging to the head.

Nobody here is apologizing for Bertuzzi, just saying he has served his time based on past practice and how the game is played.

And the hyperbole and complete misrepresentation of the facts has got to stop. Moore didn't almost die, ok, can we lay that to rest? If he had "almost died," then the punishment would have and should have been greater. Just like if Moore had gotten up off the ice the punishment would have and should have been lighter. Bettman listened to the medical testimony at the hearing and gave the punishment. The NHL sets its own rules, and made its own decision.

Moore will have his day in the courts, as it should be. Don't confuse court justice with NHL rules regarding suspensions.

[Maple Leafs]

You can't bury Bertuzzi because Moore "could have" been killed, any more than you can let him off the hook because Moore "could have" walked away without any injury at all. What happened is what happened.

There are two facts here that people need to keep in mind:
- Moore was seriously injured (two cracked vertebrae, concussion, lacerations)
- Many fans and media outlets have vastly overstated his injuries (he wasn't paralyzed, there was no spinal cord trauma, etc)

I'm tired of this being some sort of religious war where you have to either accept the hyped-up story that Moore was on death's door, or else be considered to be defending Bertuzzi. It's nonsense.

[Karim]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Karim, your attempted murder comment was uncalled for. If you don't like it, don't play or watch hockey. Simple as that. We won't miss you. If it means less people will care about the game or watch it fine. We'll go back to the original six teams, I'm fine with that.

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

I have no doubt that Bertuzzi had no intention of seriously hurting Moore.

The second point is more important and is where the division of opinion comes in. Legally he was never charged with attempted murder. Fine. But I feel there was every intent on seriously hurting Moore. Right or wrong, that's what I feel, judging not only by the action but with the call for the 'bounty'. "I'm going to f*** you up!" may just be macho aggression intent on intimidating the opponent but when you actually do it, in my mind questions arise as to intent. Why didn't he just fight to send a message? He probably couldn't do enough damage with a fist is my guess.

I've seen my share of violence with the Calgary/Edmonton hey days in the 80s. I remember a bench clearing brawl (remember those?) where there weren't enough officials to handle everyone. Dave Brown continued to pound Jim Kyte while Kyte lay on the ice and clearly didn't want any more of it. Kyte became deaf in one ear as a result. Dave Manson's raspy voice was the result of vocal chord damage from a punch to the throat in a fight. I have no problems with fighting and cheered loudly when Simon beat the crap out of Cowan who was running Iginla. The difference is these guys went toe to toe willingly.

[Karim]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

In fact, if you had read my post, you would see that the NHL has never handed out a life time suspension let alone a longer one than Bertuzzi got for much dangerous on-ice activities such as stick swinging to the head.

And that makes it right? Many people (myself included) don't understand the leniency the NHL continues to show in disciplinary matters. I guess I'm disappointed that with all this talk of the 'new NHL', I thought they'd be more vigilant in this regard and set new precedents.

[TroyF]

For the record, when Lemiuex hit Draper, I wanted him gone for the entire playoffs and a full suspension for the next season.

Not sure if my thoughts are in print on this board, but I was disgusted by it and wanted him gone.

As with Romo on the Broncos, it was hard seeing Lemiuex with the cup. It truly sucks when good things happen to bad people. It sucks worse when they happen to play on a team you cheer for. (I love the Rams as well as the Broncos, but I couldn't cheer for Little if someone paid me to do it)

I think you can go back and see that I was on record that year as to saying I hoped Vancouver would win the Cup if the Avs didn't. I loved their style of play, liked Marc Crawford from his days as the Avs coach, and wanted to see Canada get a Cup (and I thought the best chance was the Canucks)

Say whatever the hell you want about my opinions, they aren't focused on "my team." I don't hold other players to different standards and let guys on the teams I cheer for get free passes. I HATE Bill Romanowski. I HATE Claude Lemioux. and I HATE Todd Bertuzzi.

[Karim]

I normally don't agree with Damien Cox but I think he's bang on in this article:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...=1044442957278

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Karim

Why didn't he just fight to send a message? He probably couldn't do enough damage with a fist is my guess.

Actually, he tried to fight Moore, Moore wouldn't fight back. That's why he punched him from behind, Moore wouldn't face him.

[Johnny93g]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Actually, he tried to fight Moore, Moore wouldn't fight back. That's why he punched him from behind, Moore wouldn't face him.

Moore had already fought that night....I dont remember with who, but is he supposed to fight everyone on the team?

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

Moore had already fought that night....I dont remember with who, but is he supposed to fight everyone on the team?

I know, and whether he should have or should not have fought isn't my point. I was just pointing out that to say Bertuzzi should have fought properly instead of how he did was unfair to Bertuzzi in the sense that he tried that, and was unable to cajole Moore willingly into it.

I'm still convinced his punch from behind was intended to force Moore to turn and fight, not to knock him out or otherwise do severe damage.

[Johnny93g]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I know, and whether he should have or should not have fought isn't my point. I was just pointing out that to say Bertuzzi should have fought properly instead of how he did was unfair to Bertuzzi in the sense that he tried that, and was unable to cajole Moore willingly into it.

I'm still convinced his punch from behind was intended to force Moore to turn and fight, not to knock him out or otherwise do severe damage.

your probably right, either that, or to hurt him....i dont believe his intent was to seriously hurt Moore, but i dont think intent really matters in this case

[SoxWin]

Originally Posted by Karim

Why didn't he just fight to send a message? He probably couldn't do enough damage with a fist is my guess.

Well then your guess is wrong.

Moore refused repeated attemts by Bertuzzi, Ruutu, and May to fight. If he hadn't, the incident wouldn't have happened, not that that absolves Bert in any way, shape, or form.

[SoxWin]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

Moore had already fought that night....I dont remember with who, but is he supposed to fight everyone on the team?

Matt Cooke, aka the punching bag. No, he didn't have to fight everyone, but fighting a legit middleweight like Ruutu or May would have ended the stupidity.

[Johnny93g]

Originally Posted by SoxWin

Matt Cooke, aka the punching bag. No, he didn't have to fight everyone, but fighting a legit middleweight like Ruutu or May would have ended the stupidity.

sounds an awful lot like your making excuses for Bertuzzi.....Cooke didnt have to fight, maybe if Cooke turned down Moore, one of the others would of had a shot.....putting the blame on Moore like this is dumb.....skating away should not result in being attacked

[SoxWin]

I'm not making excuses for him at all. Like it or not though, that's been the code of hockey forever. Do you honestly think Bert would have attacked him if Moore had fought him face to face? I don't, but whatever, it's over and done with.

[klayman]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I'm still convinced his punch from behind was intended to force Moore to turn and fight, not to knock him out or otherwise do severe damage.

I agree. In all my years of playing hockey, I have punched and been punched in the back of the head several times, and never had it do severe damage.

[Maple Leafs]

A judge in Colorado has dismissed Moore's lawsuit:
http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=139625&hubname=

Sounds like a reasonable decision -- Moore and his lawyers were really stretching credibility by looking to have the case tried in Colorado. The judge essentially said that the suit should be filed in BC, without commenting on the legitimacy of the claims.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

A judge in Colorado has dismissed Moore's lawsuit:
http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=139625&hubname=

Sounds like a reasonable decision -- Moore and his lawyers were really stretching credibility by looking to have the case tried in Colorado. The judge essentially said that the suit should be filed in BC, without commenting on the legitimacy of the claims.

I agree. I don't know much about jurisdictional law in Colorado, but what I remember from law school, Colorado was not the jurisdiction to hear this claim. I wonder if Moore will persue the claim in BC. I don't know much of anything about Canadian law, but I would imagine it would be a much tougher battle with a smaller payout at the end.

[klayman]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I agree. I don't know much about jurisdictional law in Colorado, but what I remember from law school, Colorado was not the jurisdiction to hear this claim. I wonder if Moore will persue the claim in BC. I don't know much of anything about Canadian law, but I would imagine it would be a much tougher battle with a smaller payout at the end.

But it's not about the money...it's about justice! Right?