Poker: Your strategy with a short stack

TroyF · 10-05-2005, 10:02 PM

I was playing a tourney tonight. Started out with 1700+ players. (1000 starting chips)I was short stacked all night. I just couldn't get the cards. The only hand I had early was a pair of jacks. I went 200 on em and ended up folding after an ace came on the board and a guy went all in. It was too early to get a read on him and take a chance.

So anyway, I went all the way down to 350 before I started chipping away a little at a time. Didn't get a solid hand and so I just kep raising with some bluffs and got lucky with a pair of fours going on the board.

My night ended with about 380 players left. I had 1100 in chips (average player left in the tourney had over 4500). I was the BB, which was 300 and was dealt a pair of 10's. I went all in, got called and was beat by a Q on the flop.

I'm new to the tournies, was this a "good" move, a "bad" move or the "only" move? Any advice on playing with the short stack?

Barkeep49 · 10-05-2005, 10:06 PM

Without knowing some more specifics (what was the table like overall? how many had called? anyone raised? how did those callers/raisers play?) it's hard to say exactly. However, in this position, and from how you've described your play, it might have been the best move available at the time.

TroyF · 10-05-2005, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Without knowing some more specifics (what was the table like overall? how many had called? anyone raised? how did those callers/raisers play?) it's hard to say exactly. However, in this position, and from how you've described your play, it might have been the best move available at the time.

Two people had called. There were no raises. I was the short stack at 1100, the next closest person was sitting at 2400.

MJ4H · 10-05-2005, 10:14 PM

Sounds fine. Your goal is to make a move before your all-in raise is so small it does not cause anyone to have to accept bad odds to call your raise. Once you are down underneath 10 big blinds, you usually will either raise all-in or fold. Once you are under about 5 big blinds, you are pretty much out of time and need to pick a hand extremely soon or your raise will not be very meaningful. TT is certainly a big enough hand to make a stand with less than 4 big blinds, but this move ideally should have been made sooner, as you see. Even with a lesser hand, the raise will have a larger chance of getting people to fold.

Barkeep49 · 10-05-2005, 10:16 PM

You have less than 3x the BB. Given that you likely will not see a better hand before you would be blinded away, the question becomes what do you do if you check and there is an overcard (as is likely)? If would not be willing to lay down the hand in that situation you should definitely push here. If you think you could read your opponnents based on the flop, thus knowing if you are beat, then a check might not be the worse idea. Personally, I don't think I could read them that well and would likely feel compelled to push hoping for a coinflip.

TroyF · 10-05-2005, 10:21 PM

Thanks guys. All in all, I was happy with the performence. It was my first tournament in over a year and only the second I've ever been in. I just couldn't get the cards. No big pairs (the jacks were the highest) and not a single big slick. I had A-Q a few times and did well with those hands, but really, I just didn't get anything at all.

I was happy to have stuck around as long as I did. I think I'm going to start playing in one or two a month. It was a lot of fun, and the few times I actually had a hand, it was nice to get the adrenaline up.

kcchief19 · 10-05-2005, 10:28 PM

That shortstacked, I'm all-in the first time I get two decent cards -- any pair, couple of facecards, suited connectors, maybe even any ace. If you've got two limpers, I'm hoping to at least pickup the money already in the pot, which can sustain me through at least two or three trips around the the table waiting for another good hand. That shortstacked, I'm happy anytime I get my money in with the best hand, and if somebody sucks out you can't help it.

If you lose, you didn't lose on that hand; the turning point was earlier when you became shortstacked.

Radii · 10-06-2005, 10:30 AM

All in with tens in that situation was the only move.

Without a solid hand, you don't want to be calling bets that will put you all in, but that low in chips if you are the first one in the pot you want to be all in with *almost* any two cards. Probalby anything better than, say, 74o? I know in this situation you were in the big blind, but I'm talking about the rest of the orbit... say you have 1100 chips, blinds are 150/300, you can survive less than 3 full orbits around the table(in Harrington speak, your M is less than 3, putting you in an extremely desparate situation). In that situation, unless you are right on the bubble of making the money or moving up signifigantly in payout, or unless everyone else is that short stacked b/c the blind structure sucks, you want to be all in almost any time you are first into the pot.

Harrington on Holdem volumes 1 and 2 are highly, highly recommended here by the way

Honolulu_Blue · 10-06-2005, 10:35 AM

When I first saw the title of this thread I thought it would be about eating pancakes. Mmmm.... pancakes.

10-05-2005, 10:14 PM	#4
MJ4H Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hog Country	Sounds fine. Your goal is to make a move before your all-in raise is so small it does not cause anyone to have to accept bad odds to call your raise. Once you are down underneath 10 big blinds, you usually will either raise all-in or fold. Once you are under about 5 big blinds, you are pretty much out of time and need to pick a hand extremely soon or your raise will not be very meaningful. TT is certainly a big enough hand to make a stand with less than 4 big blinds, but this move ideally should have been made sooner, as you see. Even with a lesser hand, the raise will have a larger chance of getting people to fold. __________________ My YouTube channel My Twitch channel My Sharona

10-06-2005, 10:35 AM	#9
Honolulu_Blue Hockey Boy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Royal Oak, MI	When I first saw the title of this thread I thought it would be about eating pancakes. Mmmm.... pancakes. __________________ *Steve Yzerman*: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons).

10-05-2005, 10:06 PM	#2
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Without knowing some more specifics (what was the table like overall? how many had called? anyone raised? how did those callers/raisers play?) it's hard to say exactly. However, in this position, and from how you've described your play, it might have been the best move available at the time.

10-05-2005, 10:16 PM	#5
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	You have less than 3x the BB. Given that you likely will not see a better hand before you would be blinded away, the question becomes what do you do if you check and there is an overcard (as is likely)? If would not be willing to lay down the hand in that situation you should definitely push here. If you think you could read your opponnents based on the flop, thus knowing if you are beat, then a check might not be the worse idea. Personally, I don't think I could read them that well and would likely feel compelled to push hoping for a coinflip.

10-05-2005, 10:21 PM	#6
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Thanks guys. All in all, I was happy with the performence. It was my first tournament in over a year and only the second I've ever been in. I just couldn't get the cards. No big pairs (the jacks were the highest) and not a single big slick. I had A-Q a few times and did well with those hands, but really, I just didn't get anything at all. I was happy to have stuck around as long as I did. I think I'm going to start playing in one or two a month. It was a lot of fun, and the few times I actually had a hand, it was nice to get the adrenaline up.

10-05-2005, 10:28 PM	#7
kcchief19 Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Kansas City, MO	That shortstacked, I'm all-in the first time I get two decent cards -- any pair, couple of facecards, suited connectors, maybe even any ace. If you've got two limpers, I'm hoping to at least pickup the money already in the pot, which can sustain me through at least two or three trips around the the table waiting for another good hand. That shortstacked, I'm happy anytime I get my money in with the best hand, and if somebody sucks out you can't help it. If you lose, you didn't lose on that hand; the turning point was earlier when you became shortstacked.

10-06-2005, 10:30 AM	#8
Radii Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	All in with tens in that situation was the only move. Without a solid hand, you don't want to be calling bets that will put you all in, but that low in chips if you are the first one in the pot you want to be all in with almost any two cards. Probalby anything better than, say, 74o? I know in this situation you were in the big blind, but I'm talking about the rest of the orbit... say you have 1100 chips, blinds are 150/300, you can survive less than 3 full orbits around the table(in Harrington speak, your M is less than 3, putting you in an extremely desparate situation). In that situation, unless you are right on the bubble of making the money or moving up signifigantly in payout, or unless everyone else is that short stacked b/c the blind structure sucks, you want to be all in almost any time you are first into the pot. Harrington on Holdem volumes 1 and 2 are highly, highly recommended here by the way

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