Just looking for some Job/Career Advice

MacroGuru · 09-03-2005, 01:45 AM

Alright,

Heres the deal....

Current Job - Senior Systems Analyst / Temporary Development Manager

Basically my current job duties suck as I am a fire fighter. Our company is in the process of moving from one system to another, with the new system, believe it or not, being an AS/400 system with a .NET front end.

I have spent the better part of a year specifying the system out, working with the end users to get their needs and wants down.

About 2 months ago, our Dev Manager left, I applied for the position and was told I wasn't strong enough in my .NET coding. I showed my boss ISM and several other applications I have written and that went out the door. They offered the position to someone, and that person backed out. Again, I said I wanted the position and this time I was told I wasn't mature enough, which means they are looking for someone 40+ years old for this. So currently, I am the temp manager, overseeing 4 developers and 1 analyst.

So my room for growth here sucks, but it is a secure and stable job for me.

Job Offer - Director of Development

Basically, they are getting ready to delve into the same industry I am in, and they have heard about what I have done at my current place and love it, and want me to basically build their entire corporate architecture from the ground floor up.

This is their entire Customer/Order DB and System as well as their Lead Management application.

I am to research all avenues and use them, I will manage a team of 5+ developers with some of them being in India, I would see travel maybe 3 to 4 times a year there.

The opportunity is great here to get my name out in the industry even more, to prove I can grow a company and run a team. I know the CCO, he would be my direct report, and for all purposes, I am being groomed to replace him.

The cons here are a bit more stress than the current job and about a 10K increase in pay. They are also a startup company in that awkward phase of explosive growth. They are getting ready to take off. However, I get to build not repair.

I am leaning toward the offer, and just curious if anyone can through additional questions out there I should be asking myself or just things I should think about. Or if you have input on which direction I should go, please help.

Icy · 09-03-2005, 05:00 AM

Imho it looks like a great chance for you, and also if you build it all from the beginning, it means it will be so hard for them to fire you in the future as if you're smart enough, you won't document a lot what you do there so it will be a nightmare for another guy to take your job if they try to fire you once all is built. The extra money of course will help too.

The cons, yeah stress, you will be pushed a lot, working probably more hours than usual, etc and if you have a wife and/or kids, that could mean some family problems.

About what would i try to investigate? the funds that company has, and the real possibility of growing and not closing after a few months in bankrupt, leaving you without work before making yourself a better name in the industry. Also try to politely ask about the extra hours possible retribution, as for sure you're going to expend in the office way more hours than the usual journey. Ask also about the possibility to select your own personal yourself, or at least have the possibility to say no to a candidate if you don't like him, as you're going to be the boss of the dev team, you need to work with the right ppl or they could ruin your good work. If you're the boss and they fail, you're the responsible.

Farrah Whitworth-Rahn · 09-03-2005, 09:15 AM

Ok first let me preface this by saying the answer to these questions is none of my business, so please don't answer them here. They're just questions I would be asking myself if I were in your position.

First, how are the medical benefits compared to where you are now? Does the new company have any at all? With a new baby you'll need medical.

Second, the annual salary may be more, but how does that reflect in your paycheck? It may sound like it may make a big difference, but sometimes its not. I use www.paycheckcity.com to calculate my net cash after withholding and all the deductions. Also, is it possible to ask for the additional first year 10k increase as a signing bonus instead?

Third, do you have enough cushion built up in your savings to be out of work for a while if this new gig doesn't work out? Companies in the explosive growth stage often explode. If it's possible to ask for the 10k in a signing bonus, that might help build a cushion so and minimize your risk.

And finally - how is your professional network? Do you have lots of contacts you could call on if the new gig doesn't work out? Unfortunately the old saying is true - it's not what you know, but who you know.

I don't want to seem like I'm peeing in your cheerios. This sounds like a great opportunity for you and I wish you the best of luck.

Edit - I re-read your post and I just have to say your current employers are idiots. If you don't take this job, I'd keep looking for something else.

Icy · 09-03-2005, 09:30 AM

Farrah medical question is a good one, i haven't thougt on it when i replied as in Spain health care is free (well with free i mean paid by the goberment from our taxes) but for what i have read, in the USA medical care is really expensive so a bonus from your company is for sure a good plus.

MacroGuru · 09-03-2005, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Ok first let me preface this by saying the answer to these questions is none of my business, so please don't answer them here. They're just questions I would be asking myself if I were in your position.

First, how are the medical benefits compared to where you are now? Does the new company have any at all? With a new baby you'll need medical.

Second, the annual salary may be more, but how does that reflect in your paycheck? It may sound like it may make a big difference, but sometimes its not. I use www.paycheckcity.com to calculate my net cash after withholding and all the deductions. Also, is it possible to ask for the additional first year 10k increase as a signing bonus instead?

Third, do you have enough cushion built up in your savings to be out of work for a while if this new gig doesn't work out? Companies in the explosive growth stage often explode. If it's possible to ask for the 10k in a signing bonus, that might help build a cushion so and minimize your risk.

And finally - how is your professional network? Do you have lots of contacts you could call on if the new gig doesn't work out? Unfortunately the old saying is true - it's not what you know, but who you know.

I don't want to seem like I'm peeing in your cheerios. This sounds like a great opportunity for you and I wish you the best of luck.

Edit - I re-read your post and I just have to say your current employers are idiots. If you don't take this job, I'd keep looking for something else.

Financially, they are quite well off, the funny thing is, they are the original founders of my current company, they also are the ones that pioneered and launched E-bay University just to wait for the non compete in their contracts to run it's course. Basically, I am being wined and dined by a future competitor of my current company, however, the scary thing is, with all the deals these guys have in place, they potential will shoot to where my current company is at within the next 12 months.

As for benefits, they have everything, and I will be eligible in 30 days, which means zero gap for me.

I know the salary isn't a big bump, probably about an additional 100 take home pay. I also know I can get more money on a counter offer from my current company. I am the only one there now that knows the old and new architecture inside and out as I have documented them both.

As far as professional network, it has grown considerably in the past 2 years where I am pretty confident I can get another job fairly quick.

I never thought about the signing bonus route there, I will look into that. But thank you for some of the tips and insight, I truly appreciate it.

Farrah Whitworth-Rahn · 09-03-2005, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indoorsoccersim

I know the salary isn't a big bump, probably about an additional 100 take home pay. I also know I can get more money on a counter offer from my current company. I am the only one there now that knows the old and new architecture inside and out as I have documented them both.

It sounds like your current company is a dead end for you. It may be stable, but you'll be miserable. Especially if they keep passing you over. Since you spend a majority of your waking hours at work during the week, it might be nice to have a job where your boss has complete confidence in you and your technical abilities.

Heck if the new company keeps wining and dining you, try and get an extra week of vacation out of the deal. Then do a kick butt job so your current employers are sorry they let you go when you're beating the pants off them. That's what I'd do.

Riggins44 · 09-03-2005, 03:44 PM

I went from a senior programmer position to an IT Manager about a year and a half ago. My advice to you is not to let the money sway you. In reality, 10k more a year will be fairly minimal after taxes. I would just ask a ton of questions and make sure your new job is really what you want.

It's always tempting to spite your employer if you're unhappy though.

Marc Vaughan · 09-03-2005, 05:16 PM

What I've always done when offered an opportunity is tried to imagine how I'd feel in 5 years time looking back if I hadn't taken it ...

The offer sounds good from an outsider looking in, but its you who knows the ins and outs of things and you're current position - I'm sure whichever decision you make will be the right one.

Best of luck,

Marc

MacroGuru · 09-06-2005, 08:21 AM

First of all, thanks to everyone who posted here for the help.

Second, just to provide an update.

I accepted the position with the new company yesterday, I have some contractual things to finish with them today, I will then be tendering my resignation at my current company today.

I am always nervous when I do this, oh well......

Thanks again!

MacroGuru · 09-07-2005, 11:27 AM

Another update....I have never seen a company fall over themselves like my current employer, they are begging, it's quite unbecoming, I like it....but it's just scary.

I have said it's about the opportunity, not the money, and they have backed off a bit realizing they had the chance to give me the opportunity.

Anyways, in 2 weeks, I am at my new job.

Farrah Whitworth-Rahn · 09-07-2005, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indoorsoccersim

Another update....I have never seen a company fall over themselves like my current employer, they are begging, it's quite unbecoming, I like it....but it's just scary.

I have said it's about the opportunity, not the money, and they have backed off a bit realizing they had the chance to give me the opportunity.

Anyways, in 2 weeks, I am at my new job.

Don't know what you have until it's gone.

Congratulations on your new job!

Blackadar · 09-07-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indoorsoccersim

Another update....I have never seen a company fall over themselves like my current employer, they are begging, it's quite unbecoming, I like it....but it's just scary.

I have said it's about the opportunity, not the money, and they have backed off a bit realizing they had the chance to give me the opportunity.

Anyways, in 2 weeks, I am at my new job.

Gratz. It sounds you gave them every opportunity to give you one...and they failed to do so. Good luck!

Honolulu_Blue · 09-07-2005, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indoorsoccersim

Another update....I have never seen a company fall over themselves like my current employer, they are begging, it's quite unbecoming, I like it....but it's just scary.

I have said it's about the opportunity, not the money, and they have backed off a bit realizing they had the chance to give me the opportunity.

Anyways, in 2 weeks, I am at my new job.

Fantastic. It's got to be very nerve wracking to switch jobs like this. Hell, I have considered it many times, but have yet really found the energy to really start looking elsewhere. Good luck, man!

sterlingice · 09-07-2005, 01:32 PM

Congrats, ISS. They had you and let you walk over something that wasn't monetary and that they could fix so they have no one to blame. Hope the new job works out.

SI

MacroGuru · 09-30-2005, 03:14 PM

Well...things just took a turn...

They have found out where I am at now...and they are now stating that they are concerned about their Data, and I might have walked out with it. I didn't walk out with anything, except the books I took there....

It pisses me off....I expect the C&D letter and other stuff within the week from them now...they are pretty pissed, and they actually informed the employees that they can no longer talk to me on company time...I have several friends still there, so this will be interesting.

KevinNU7 · 09-30-2005, 03:19 PM

Your current employer will lawyer up

MacroGuru · 09-30-2005, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

Your current employer will lawyer up

Oh yeah, they already have...I was informed any legal letters I receive from them are to be handed to our lawyer immediately

Farrah Whitworth-Rahn · 09-30-2005, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indoorsoccersim

Well...things just took a turn...

They have found out where I am at now...and they are now stating that they are concerned about their Data, and I might have walked out with it. I didn't walk out with anything, except the books I took there....

It pisses me off....I expect the C&D letter and other stuff within the week from them now...they are pretty pissed, and they actually informed the employees that they can no longer talk to me on company time...I have several friends still there, so this will be interesting.

Sounds like the decision to leave was the right one.

Marc Vaughan · 10-03-2005, 04:24 AM

I'd like to echo the wise & worldly Farah in that to me this confirms you made the right decision to move on ...

Best of luck ..

09-03-2005, 09:15 AM	#3
Farrah Whitworth-Rahn Red-Headed Vixen Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ	Ok first let me preface this by saying the answer to these questions is none of my business, so please don't answer them here. They're just questions I would be asking myself if I were in your position. First, how are the medical benefits compared to where you are now? Does the new company have any at all? With a new baby you'll need medical. Second, the annual salary may be more, but how does that reflect in your paycheck? It may sound like it may make a big difference, but sometimes its not. I use www.paycheckcity.com to calculate my net cash after withholding and all the deductions. Also, is it possible to ask for the additional first year 10k increase as a signing bonus instead? Third, do you have enough cushion built up in your savings to be out of work for a while if this new gig doesn't work out? Companies in the explosive growth stage often explode. If it's possible to ask for the 10k in a signing bonus, that might help build a cushion so and minimize your risk. And finally - how is your professional network? Do you have lots of contacts you could call on if the new gig doesn't work out? Unfortunately the old saying is true - it's not what you know, but who you know. I don't want to seem like I'm peeing in your cheerios. This sounds like a great opportunity for you and I wish you the best of luck. Edit - I re-read your post and I just have to say your current employers are idiots. If you don't take this job, I'd keep looking for something else. Last edited by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn : 09-03-2005 at 09:16 AM.

09-06-2005, 08:21 AM	#9
MacroGuru Coordinator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Utah	First of all, thanks to everyone who posted here for the help. Second, just to provide an update. I accepted the position with the new company yesterday, I have some contractual things to finish with them today, I will then be tendering my resignation at my current company today. I am always nervous when I do this, oh well...... Thanks again! __________________ "forgetting what is in the past, I strive for the future"

09-07-2005, 11:27 AM	#10
MacroGuru Coordinator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Utah	Another update....I have never seen a company fall over themselves like my current employer, they are begging, it's quite unbecoming, I like it....but it's just scary. I have said it's about the opportunity, not the money, and they have backed off a bit realizing they had the chance to give me the opportunity. Anyways, in 2 weeks, I am at my new job. __________________ "forgetting what is in the past, I strive for the future"

09-07-2005, 01:32 PM	#14
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Congrats, ISS. They had you and let you walk over something that wasn't monetary and that they could fix so they have no one to blame. Hope the new job works out. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

09-30-2005, 03:14 PM	#15
MacroGuru Coordinator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Utah	Well...things just took a turn... They have found out where I am at now...and they are now stating that they are concerned about their Data, and I might have walked out with it. I didn't walk out with anything, except the books I took there.... It pisses me off....I expect the C&D letter and other stuff within the week from them now...they are pretty pissed, and they actually informed the employees that they can no longer talk to me on company time...I have several friends still there, so this will be interesting. __________________ "forgetting what is in the past, I strive for the future"

09-03-2005, 05:00 AM	#2
Icy Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toledo - Spain	Imho it looks like a great chance for you, and also if you build it all from the beginning, it means it will be so hard for them to fire you in the future as if you're smart enough, you won't document a lot what you do there so it will be a nightmare for another guy to take your job if they try to fire you once all is built. The extra money of course will help too. The cons, yeah stress, you will be pushed a lot, working probably more hours than usual, etc and if you have a wife and/or kids, that could mean some family problems. About what would i try to investigate? the funds that company has, and the real possibility of growing and not closing after a few months in bankrupt, leaving you without work before making yourself a better name in the industry. Also try to politely ask about the extra hours possible retribution, as for sure you're going to expend in the office way more hours than the usual journey. Ask also about the possibility to select your own personal yourself, or at least have the possibility to say no to a candidate if you don't like him, as you're going to be the boss of the dev team, you need to work with the right ppl or they could ruin your good work. If you're the boss and they fail, you're the responsible.

09-03-2005, 09:30 AM	#4
Icy Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toledo - Spain	Farrah medical question is a good one, i haven't thougt on it when i replied as in Spain health care is free (well with free i mean paid by the goberment from our taxes) but for what i have read, in the USA medical care is really expensive so a bonus from your company is for sure a good plus.

09-03-2005, 03:44 PM	#7
Riggins44 High School JV Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Ontario, CA. USA	I went from a senior programmer position to an IT Manager about a year and a half ago. My advice to you is not to let the money sway you. In reality, 10k more a year will be fairly minimal after taxes. I would just ask a ton of questions and make sure your new job is really what you want. It's always tempting to spite your employer if you're unhappy though.

09-03-2005, 05:16 PM	#8
Marc Vaughan SI Games Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Melbourne, FL	What I've always done when offered an opportunity is tried to imagine how I'd feel in 5 years time looking back if I hadn't taken it ... The offer sounds good from an outsider looking in, but its you who knows the ins and outs of things and you're current position - I'm sure whichever decision you make will be the right one. Best of luck, Marc

09-30-2005, 03:19 PM	#16
KevinNU7 College Starter Join Date: May 2003 Location: Beantown	Your current employer will lawyer up __________________ Boston Bashers - III.14 - (8347)

10-03-2005, 04:24 AM	#19
Marc Vaughan SI Games Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Melbourne, FL	I'd like to echo the wise & worldly Farah in that to me this confirms you made the right decision to move on ... Best of luck ..

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