Terrell Davis & Willie Parker: WTF?

Butter · 09-26-2005, 02:47 PM

How do you think these guys (among others) made it so far without apparently displaying much of their talent until they became NFL starters?

Is it the fault of their college coaches for not recognizing their ability sooner? The players' fault for not listening or utilitizing their talent until they reached the highest level of football? Are these guys just stuck behind stars (yes, in Davis' case... he was behind Garrison Hearst)? Or just a case of being a truly late bloomer? Are they products of an NFL system, or failed in a college system that didn't take full advantage of their talents?

Sorry if these questions are all over the place, but I was thinking this weekend about just how can total unknowns that played in college become stars well ahead of guys that they played behind.

What are some other good examples of guys who were totally unheralded at the college level, but have become stars in the NFL? And I'm not talking about guys who started but never got any press... I'm talking about guys who weren't even starters or good performers in college, but then came to the NFL and became quality players.

rkmsuf · 09-26-2005, 02:49 PM

See Rod Smith

Samdari · 09-26-2005, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

What are some other good examples of guys who were totally unheralded at the college level, but have become stars in the NFL? And I'm not talking about guys who started but never got any press... I'm talking about guys who weren't even starters or good performers in college, but then came to the NFL and became quality players.

Priest Holmes was behind Ricky Williams for much of his college career. Went undrafted, despite showing some pretty good ability in the games he played.

Wolfpack · 09-26-2005, 02:52 PM

In the case of Parker, it's most definitely the fault of UNC and the coaching staff there. He was a great talent coming out of high school and wound up buried on the bench at UNC by a staff that until last year had its head in the noose.

henry296 · 09-26-2005, 02:52 PM

In the case of Parker, he was recruited by one coach at UNC and then a new coach came in with a different offensive philosophy and felt Willie would not fit.

rkmsuf · 09-26-2005, 02:54 PM

Outside of physical freaks, successes are largely based on circumstance.

DaddyTorgo · 09-26-2005, 02:54 PM

i don't think we should shine Willie Parker's Canton bust yet. He's only played in what...3 games? And two of those were against crap defenses, the game that was against a good D he came away looking quite average.

Huckleberry · 09-26-2005, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samdari

Priest Holmes was behind Ricky Williams for much of his college career. Went undrafted, despite showing some pretty good ability in the games he played.

Priest Holmes spent time "behind" others at Texas because he was often injured. He played a lot when healthy.

And he finished up two years before Ricky Williams. He was never behind Ricky because Ricky played FB his first two years at Texas.

Samdari · 09-26-2005, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Priest Holmes spent time "behind" others at Texas because he was often injured. He played a lot when healthy.

And he finished up two years before Ricky Williams. He was never behind Ricky because Ricky played FB his first two years at Texas.

He finished one year behind Ricky at Texas. Priest's first year in the NFL was 98, Ricky's was 99.

I believe that Priest started as a sophomore at Texas at TB, and Ricky was a freshman FB. Priest got hurt, Ricky moved to TB, and started there the rest of his career. Priest was never hurt again, but Ricky was the established starter.

Ricky was certainly the leading rusher at Texas for all of his four years. There is no way he could have ended his career as college football's all time leading rusher otherwise.

Huckleberry · 09-26-2005, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samdari

He finished one year behind Ricky at Texas. Priest's first year in the NFL was 98, Ricky's was 99.

Ricky's last year at Texas was 1998. Priest's last year at Texas was 1996. Priest spent much of 1997 injured (spoken to above) but played in 7 games with Baltimore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samdari

I believe that Priest started as a sophomore at Texas at TB, and Ricky was a freshman FB. Priest got hurt, Ricky moved to TB, and started there the rest of his career. Priest was never hurt again, but Ricky was the established starter.

Ricky was certainly the leading rusher at Texas for all of his four years. There is no way he could have ended his career as college football's all time leading rusher otherwise.

No. Shon Mitchell was the starting TB for Texas Ricky's freshman and sophomore years. Ricky was not the leading rusher for Texas his freshman year, Shon Mitchell was.

Huckleberry · 09-26-2005, 03:36 PM

dola -

As for the original post, I think it should be clear at this point that running back success has a boatload to do with your OL and your opportunities.

BigJohn&TheLions · 09-26-2005, 03:39 PM

Ahman Green was behind Lawrence Phillips at Nebraska...

Samdari · 09-26-2005, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Ricky's last year at Texas was 1998. Priest's last year at Texas was 1996. Priest spent much of 1997 injured (spoken to above) but played in 7 games with Baltimore.

No. Shon Mitchell was the starting TB for Texas Ricky's freshman and sophomore years. Ricky was not the leading rusher for Texas his freshman year, Shon Mitchell was.

Yeah, you're right.

Still, Priest was healthy in 96 (according to his bio) and the #3 tailback at Texas behind Williams and Mitchell. I know Ricky was listed as the starting FB, but got more carries than anyone else on the team as the deepest man in the Texas backfield. That makes him the #1 TB.

Ajaxab · 09-26-2005, 03:50 PM

Would Antonio Gates fit into this category? I thought I heard Sunday night during the broadcast that he didn't play any college football, but I might not have been paying enough attention.

stevew · 09-26-2005, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajaxab

Would Antonio Gates fit into this category? I thought I heard Sunday night during the broadcast that he didn't play any college football, but I might not have been paying enough attention.

I think he just played College Basketball

Raiders Army · 09-26-2005, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajaxab

Would Antonio Gates fit into this category? I thought I heard Sunday night during the broadcast that he didn't play any college football, but I might not have been paying enough attention.

Antonio Gates is highly overrated. I'd take Jason Witten over him any day of the week. If San Diego had any WRs he wouldn't get half the passes he received last year.

Hurst2112 · 09-26-2005, 05:04 PM

Parker had a good game last year, which got everybody's attention. The kid has some talent. No, I wouldn't consider him the next big thing in RBs. He has a great line to run behind and the jury is still out if he can hold his own during a years worth of starts...much less repeat a decent season for the next decade.

He keeps his legs churning, something that most RBs can't do nowadays.

rock

Raiders Army · 09-26-2005, 06:29 PM

If he is a starter, he'll end up like Terrell Davis. A flash in the pan. There's a reason he wasn't the starter in college...whether it was injury-proneness or work-ethic or whatever.

Karlifornia · 09-26-2005, 06:34 PM

Didn't Chris Simms back up Major Applewhite?

Rasmuth · 09-26-2005, 06:35 PM

hell...look at Gary Brown (remember...Oilers...started 8 games and ran for 1000 yards in those games) and a few more 1000+ seasons....

played defensive back at Penn State because they had so much depth at Running Back...who knows what he might have done if he'd played his natural position in college...

Raiders Army · 09-26-2005, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioFriendlyUnitShifter

Didn't Chris Simms back up Major Applewhite?

Isn't he backing up Brian Griese?

Brian Griese???

mtolson · 09-26-2005, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

How do you think these guys (among others) made it so far without apparently displaying much of their talent until they became NFL starters?

Is it the fault of their college coaches for not recognizing their ability sooner? The players' fault for not listening or utilitizing their talent until they reached the highest level of football? Are these guys just stuck behind stars (yes, in Davis' case... he was behind Garrison Hearst)? Or just a case of being a truly late bloomer? Are they products of an NFL system, or failed in a college system that didn't take full advantage of their talents?

Sorry if these questions are all over the place, but I was thinking this weekend about just how can total unknowns that played in college become stars well ahead of guys that they played behind.

What are some other good examples of guys who were totally unheralded at the college level, but have become stars in the NFL? And I'm not talking about guys who started but never got any press... I'm talking about guys who weren't even starters or good performers in college, but then came to the NFL and became quality players.

Brad Johnson comes to mind. He has had a decent career and I don't believe he ever started at FSU (if he did it wasn't for long). Drafted in 9th round and has started for multiple NFL teams.

BishopMVP · 09-26-2005, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtolson

Brad Johnson comes to mind. He has had a decent career and I don't believe he ever started at FSU (if he did it wasn't for long). Drafted in 9th round and has started for multiple NFL teams.

Along those lines, Matt Cassell for the Patriots comes to mind. Carson Palmer and Matt Leinart were pretty good college QB's, so Cassell only got like 10 passes in his college career, still got picked 7th round and looks like he has the potential to be an NFL starter if he keeps improving.

Another guy on the Pats is David Givens, who was horrible underutilized by the Notre Dame coaches, even though he started.

09-26-2005, 02:49 PM	#2
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	See Rod Smith __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

09-26-2005, 02:52 PM	#5
henry296 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	In the case of Parker, he was recruited by one coach at UNC and then a new coach came in with a different offensive philosophy and felt Willie would not fit. __________________ "It's a great day for hockey" - "Badger" Bob Johnson

09-26-2005, 02:54 PM	#6
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Outside of physical freaks, successes are largely based on circumstance. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

09-26-2005, 03:36 PM	#11
Huckleberry College Starter Join Date: Dec 2001	dola - As for the original post, I think it should be clear at this point that running back success has a boatload to do with your OL and your opportunities. __________________ The one thing all your failed relationships have in common is you. The Barking Carnival (Longhorn-centered sports blog) College Football Adjusted Stats and Ratings

09-26-2005, 03:39 PM	#12
BigJohn&TheLions College Benchwarmer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New York	Ahman Green was behind Lawrence Phillips at Nebraska... __________________ In the immortal words of a great alcoholic, "Can't we all just get along?"

09-26-2005, 02:52 PM	#4
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	In the case of Parker, it's most definitely the fault of UNC and the coaching staff there. He was a great talent coming out of high school and wound up buried on the bench at UNC by a staff that until last year had its head in the noose.

09-26-2005, 02:54 PM	#7
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	i don't think we should shine Willie Parker's Canton bust yet. He's only played in what...3 games? And two of those were against crap defenses, the game that was against a good D he came away looking quite average.

09-26-2005, 03:50 PM	#14
Ajaxab College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Far from home	Would Antonio Gates fit into this category? I thought I heard Sunday night during the broadcast that he didn't play any college football, but I might not have been paying enough attention.

09-26-2005, 05:04 PM	#17
Hurst2112 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Minneapolis	Parker had a good game last year, which got everybody's attention. The kid has some talent. No, I wouldn't consider him the next big thing in RBs. He has a great line to run behind and the jury is still out if he can hold his own during a years worth of starts...much less repeat a decent season for the next decade. He keeps his legs churning, something that most RBs can't do nowadays. rock __________________ http://www.myspace.com/longliveanalog

09-26-2005, 06:29 PM	#18
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	If he is a starter, he'll end up like Terrell Davis. A flash in the pan. There's a reason he wasn't the starter in college...whether it was injury-proneness or work-ethic or whatever.

09-26-2005, 06:34 PM	#19
Karlifornia Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	Didn't Chris Simms back up Major Applewhite? __________________ Look into the mind of a crazy man (NSFW) http://www.whitepowerupdate.wordpress.com

09-26-2005, 06:35 PM	#20
Rasmuth n00b Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Churchville, NY	hell...look at Gary Brown (remember...Oilers...started 8 games and ran for 1000 yards in those games) and a few more 1000+ seasons.... played defensive back at Penn State because they had so much depth at Running Back...who knows what he might have done if he'd played his natural position in college...

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