Kicking/Punting Technical Question

[Dutch]

I have always wondered about the technical stance in Punts and FG/PAT tries.

Can you line up for a FG and then pick the ball up and punt it?

And, as crazy as it sounds, can you line up for a punt and drop kick it for a FG try?

Just wondering.

[wade moore]

A game I watched this weekend had them lineup for a field goal, then snap it to the kicker and he punted...

It was the W&M vs. URI Game I think..

No penalty or anything...

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I have always wondered about the technical stance in Punts and FG/PAT tries.

Can you line up for a FG and then pick the ball up and punt it?

And, as crazy as it sounds, can you line up for a punt and drop kick it for a FG try?

Just wondering.

Yes to both, although I can't imagine a drop kick has been attempted in ages.

Maybe Bucc could tell us when the last time was.

[ThunderingHERD]

Yes to the punt thing--I've seen fake play punts several times. I'm not sure about the field goal thing, but I can't possibly imagine any reason for anyone wanting to try that.

[sabotai]

Right, there just isn't any reason to try and punt the ball through the uprights unless you have the most accurate punter in the history of the universe. But I have seen them line up to FG and punt the ball.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Right, there just isn't any reason to try and punt the ball through the uprights unless you have the most accurate punter in the history of the universe. But I have seen them line up to FG and punt the ball.

First of all, it's not that simple. A drop-kick is not the same as a punt, the ball has to hit the ground before it can be kicked. That's why we will never, ever see it happen.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

First of all, it's not that simple. A drop-kick is not the same as a punt, the ball has to hit the ground before it can be kicked. That's why we will never, ever see it happen.

I think it was Jansen for the Dolphins who was supposedly an accomplished drop kicker. I could almost see someone trying it on turf, if the turf had a true bounce. But if someone was gonna drop kick a fieldgoal, likely it would be a QB who takes a couple steps back from the shotgun, or a RB who was lined up in the backfield.

[kcchief19]

There is nothing about the formation that requires you to punt or placekick. The most common fake field goal into a punt in the NFL usually is either a direct snap to the kicker or the holder pitches it to the kicker.

A favorite in college is the pooch kick. This usually involves the quarterback punting the ball out of the shot with one step, not the usual steps a punter takes. Missouri used the pooch punt to great effect during the Corby Jones era because he was a pretty good punter. We even pulled it on third and long once and I think he got 60+ yards out of it.

cthomer's correct -- a punt and a drop kick are not the same. A punt is a kick of a dropped ball before it hits the ground and cannot be used to score. A drop kick is where the kick is made just as or right after ball hits the ground. It was much more common back in the old days when the ball was less pointy and bounced more true. I believe the last successful dropkick in the NFL was in the 1940s

[stevew]

According to available research, the Bears' Scooter McLean made the last successful dropkick for Chicago in a 37-9 victory over New York in the 1941 NFL championship game. That was an Extra Point also.

[cthomer5000]

I'd be curious to know then the last attempted drop kick was.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I'd be curious to know then the last attempted drop kick was.

I figured it had to be the inadvertant attempt by Gara Yepremian in the Super Bowl (Dolphins over Redskins).

So while searching, I ran across this video of Gara - post career. Pretty neat.

http://www.sportsstarsusa.com/footba...mian_garo.html

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I figured it had to be the inadvertant attempt by Gara Yepremian in the Super Bowl (Dolphins over Redskins).

So while searching, I ran across this video of Gara - post career. Pretty neat.

http://www.sportsstarsusa.com/footba...mian_garo.html

Nice link. Pretty funny story in there too.

[BishopMVP]

There is also the weird free kick after a fair catch situation, which I think is only allowed in the NFL, and not the NCAA.

Originally Posted by http://www.packers.com/news/stories/2005/05/09/1/

"Lee, I can remember a game back in the '60s at Wrigley Field in Chicago. The game was close and the Packers had to punt from deep in their territory. I can't remember if it was entering halftime or the end of the game. Apparently the Packers punted the ball and Chicago got possession and called for a "free kick." Mac Percival, the place kicker for Chicago, was good on the field goal attempt. Was that for the half or was that at the end of the game? How many other Packer games have involved "free kicks?" Thanks. - James (New York City)



James, the situation you describe actually occurred at Lambeau Field -- on November 3, 1968. With just 38 seconds remaining in the game and the score tied 10-10, the Bears' Cecil Turner, back to receive a punt from left-footed Donny Anderson, signaled for a fair catch and fielded the football at the Chicago 43 yard line.

The Bears immediately made known their intentions to Referee Pat Haggerty and lined up in kick formation, whereupon their specialist, Mac Percival, sent the free kick over the crossbar to seal a 13-10 Bears victory.

As far as can be determined, it was only the second free kick situation in which the Packers have been involved over their history -- both against the Bears. The first came when Vince Lombardi made such a call in a game against the Midway Monsters -- also in Lambeau Field -- on September 13, 1964.

On that occasion, with only seconds left in the first half, Elijah Pitts, back to receive a Chicago punt from Bobby Joe Green, signaled for a fair catch as he fielded the football at the Packers' 48 yard line.

Lombardi had informed Referee Norm Schachter that the Packers would be attempting a fair catch kick on what would be the final play of the first half -- and the Green and Gold promptly lined up.

Paul Hornung, once again the Packers' placekicker after sitting out a one-year suspension in 1963, advanced to kick the ball out of Bart Starr's hold and it sailed through the uprights, padding the Packers' lead to 17-3 as the first half ended.

Hornung's 52-yard success tied the team's existing field goal distance record, set by Ted Fritsch against the New York Yanks October 19, 1950. The Packers went on to defeat the Bears, 23-12. The free kick, by definition, means that the defending team must be 10 yards removed from the scrimmage line of the kicking team and cannot "rush" the kick, which thus, as the name implies, is a "free" kick."

[AlexB]

The Seahawks (I think - I've been to sleep twice since!) did the 'line up for a FG, but punt it' routine at the weekend.

The commentators called it a 'pooch kick'. Instead of trying a long FG, the ball was snapped direct to the kicker, who just dollied it over the top of the onrushing Falcons, going OOB at around the 13. I guess the theory is that there a very little chance of it being blocked, and the gunners are not likely to be blocked at the line either.

[Airhog]

There is a free kick in highschool football to. You kick it from the tee, and can only be used after a fair catch. They used it once during a game I was attending for my HS, and he broke the state record. I believe he kicked it like 62 yards.

[kcchief19]

I'm aware of the free kick rule, but I've never seen it applied so I don't entirely understand how it works. I'm under the impession that it is a free kick from the spot of the fair catch can can be made with a tee in the NFL, but perhaps it can only be with a holder.

Obviously it was limited application, since it only makes since to use it on a punt at the end of the first half within field goal range or in a similar situation at the end of game when you're down by three points or less. It had much more application in the days of yore before teams became more adept at running out the clock and punters became able to boom 50-yard bombs when they need to. In the current NFL you not only have to have the right time and field position, but also a crappy punt.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

I'm aware of the free kick rule, but I've never seen it applied so I don't entirely understand how it works. I'm under the impession that it is a free kick from the spot of the fair catch can can be made with a tee in the NFL, but perhaps it can only be with a holder.

Obviously it was limited application, since it only makes since to use it on a punt at the end of the first half within field goal range or in a similar situation at the end of game when you're down by three points or less. It had much more application in the days of yore before teams became more adept at running out the clock and punters became able to boom 50-yard bombs when they need to. In the current NFL you not only have to have the right time and field position, but also a crappy punt.

I've only seen it come into play once, in a game involving Seattle at some point in the early-mid 90s. It is my favorite NFL rule though, and I'm always acutely aware of when it might come into play. It's just the holder and the kicker. I'm not sure if the kicker can use a tee, but I imagine he probably could if he wanted.

[bhlloy]

British college rules you can definitely drop kick, we spent a whole season kicking them as a) we had a rugby full back as our kicker and b) our special teams unit was shocking. It's definitely not as easy as with a rugby ball though. Much easier to do things more conventionally even without a good holder. Our coach was an idiot.

[Ben E Lou]

Laces out!