Another Big Screen TV Question

mgadfly · 08-14-2005, 02:42 PM

I ran a search and read through all the other threads on this so I know there are a lot of people on the board that have already given advice to others. My wife and I just bought a home (our first). It is small (about 900 squ ft on the first floor), but the living room is pretty good sized. I want a big screen television and my wife has given me the go-ahead to spend $2,000. She wants it to be one of the "small ones," meaning Plasma-I think, so it doesn't take up much of the room.

My first question is whether the Plasma is the only type of big screen television that is thin enought to be hung on the wall?

My second question is whether anyone has any suggestions for what television I can afford with $2K to spend?

And finally, what should I ask the salesperson about the television when I go into make my purchase? (What features do I need? Etc...)

One thing a salesman told me today is that the 8th generation plasma televisions don't have burn-in because of pixel-shifting technology. Is that true?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

JonInMiddleGA · 08-14-2005, 02:45 PM

Doesn't answer many of your questions, but it seemed timely.
http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D8BV88U80.html

Flat-Screen TV Prices Finally Coming Down
Aug 13, 7:38 PM (ET)

By GREG SANDOVAL

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Bud Werner and his wife are longtime movie buffs. For more than a year, he pined for a flat-panel television, thrilled by 60-inch screens thin enough to hang on a wall and turn his living room into a mini-movie theater. But he couldn't overcome sticker shock: Some flat panels were selling for as much as $20,000 at first, as much as a new car. Like a lot of fans of flat-panel TVs, Werner, who owns a sign-making business, held off buying. Until now, that is.

Prices for flat panels have finally begun to tumble - by as much as 35 percent in the past year - as soaring demand for the two leading flat-panel technologies, plasma and liquid crystal display, or LCD, attracts a host of new competitors.

"I'm excited," said Werner, 54, whose patience was rewarded this month when he bought a 50-inch plasma television at Best Buy for $3,800. "We already have the wall picked out where it's going to hang."

Lesser-known brands, such as Westinghouse Electric Co., Regent USA's Maxent, Syntax Corp.'s Olevia and Norcent Micro Inc. are slashing prices to compete against more-established names like Sharp Corp. and Sony Corp. (SNE), forcing them, in turn, to charge less.

Semiconductors and other TV components also are getting cheaper, and the industry continues to find ways to trim production costs.

Now, a 42-inch liquid crystal model retails for about $4,200 on average, and the same-sized high-definition plasma sells for around $2,900, said Riddhi Patel, senior analyst for iSuppli, a market research firm in El Segundo, Calif.

Still too expensive? Price-conscious consumers shouldn't worry, analysts say, as flat-panel prices have yet to bottom out.

Some major retail chains continue to charge a premium for plasma and liquid crystal sets, pocketing 25 percent profits on larger models, Patel said.

"There is plenty of room for retailers to squeeze more out of their profit margins and attract customers," she said.

Proof that flat-panel TVs is a boon for retailers can be found in their earnings statements. Best Buy Co. (BBY) saw an 85 percent jump in first-quarter profits due in part to skyrocketing sales of flat-panel televisions, while struggling electronics retailer Circuit City Stores Inc. (CC) saw triple-digit increases.

Representatives for Best Buy, Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (WMT) and Costco Wholesale Corp. (COST), did not respond to requests for comment, while Bill Cimino of Circuit City refused to discuss profit margins, though he did say more price reductions are expected.

The price war, meanwhile, is taking a toll on flat-panel manufacturers. Sony blamed increased competition from Asian manufacturers who produce cheaper goods, including flat-panels TVs, when it reduced its full-year forecast by 90 percent. Last month, Sony, Toshiba Corp., and Hitachi Ltd. (HIT) reported quarterly losses.

Some manufacturers have agreed to share risk and expense. Hitachi and Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., the maker of Panasonic televisions, began jointly making LCD televisions in February, as did Sharp and Fujitsu Ltd.

Despite the competitive environment, the companies continue to invest heavily in flat panels knowing that once the market matures they stand to cash in.

About 20.8 million flat-panel TVs will be sold this year worldwide, almost double the 10.9 million units sold in 2004. Sales next year should rise 47 percent, iSuppli said.

Though CRTs have served consumers well for a half-century, flat panels are appealing because they take less space and can be hung on walls.

Misperception may also play a role.

When it comes to picture, most analysts say CRTs are just as good as flat panels, yet many consumers are under the assumption that flat panels are all high definition and thus offer better picture quality. In retail showrooms, flat panels typically display high-definition digital content, so they look superior to CRTs.

Consumers don't always know that some flat panels can't receive high definition, or that CRTs can be formatted to get such programming.

When it comes to performance among flat-panel makers, paying more doesn't necessarily mean a better picture, said Eric Haruki, an analyst for research firm IDC.

More than 90 percent of the world's LCD panels are supplied by five companies, so top-tier brands and generics often share the same components, according to Haruki.

"Some of these companies buy top-notch components from the big players and rebrand them," Haruki said. "The technology is pretty good across the board."

Greg Gudorf, Sony's vice president of television marketing, insists top-tier manufacturers have an expertise lesser-known brands can't match.

"What is their manufacturing expertise in processing video signals?" Gudorf asked. "That's where Sony's heritage comes in. We know how to make a picture look good."

But James Li, chief executive of Syntax, argues that heritage is meaningless when it comes to new technology.

"We all entered the LCD era on the same playing field," he said. "Everybody is working with the same technology. Consumers have already learned that the brand name is not the single most important factor in their purchase."

There is just as much debate over whether to buy now or wait until prices drop further.

Patel is in the market for a new television, but she is waiting until after holiday shopping peaks. She said retailers are apt to offer their best deals then.

Russ Johnston, senior vice president of marketing for Pioneer Electronics Inc., agrees the cost-conscious can wait.

But for those who want the best TV experience in time for the upcoming football season and baseball playoffs, there's no better time to buy.

"If you look at August through November, those are the best TV months," Johnston said. "Sports fans are going to invite people over and want to show off their new TV. They're done waiting."

moriarty · 08-14-2005, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgadfly

My first question is whether the Plasma is the only type of big screen television that is thin enought to be hung on the wall?

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgadfly

My second question is whether anyone has any suggestions for what television I can afford with $2K to spend?

Mmmn, don't think you're gonna get a plasma at that price. Try a DLP or LCD television probably around 43". They're skinny and light (~17" deep, and 70lbs), but you wont' be able to hang them.

How far away from the screen are you planning on sitting?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgadfly

And finally, what should I ask the salesperson about the television when I go into make my purchase? (What features do I need? Etc...)

That depends alot on what you want to use it for. Are you planning on watching HD? Is it mainly for movies? Are you going to watch regular (non-HD) television alot on it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgadfly

One thing a salesman told me today is that the 8th generation plasma televisions don't have burn-in because of pixel-shifting technology. Is that true?

Don't know about that. Sounds suspicious, but I'm not up on the latest plama technology. Earlier plasmas could definitely burn in (although rare) if you watched static content with the contrast & brightness cranked up. I'd usually go with a LCD/DLP if you're looking to play alot of xbox/playstation games just to be safe.

mgadfly · 08-14-2005, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriarty

Yes.

Mmmn, don't think you're gonna get a plasma at that price. Try a DLP or LCD television probably around 43". They're skinny and light (~17" deep, and 70lbs), but you wont' be able to hang them.

How far away from the screen are you planning on sitting?

Probably about 12-15 feet most of the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriarty

That depends alot on what you want to use it for. Are you planning on watching HD? Is it mainly for movies? Are you going to watch regular (non-HD) television alot on it?

I probably won't be watching HD-TV for awhile (maybe next year). I watch a lot of movies and a fair amount of regular television.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriarty

Don't know about that. Sounds suspicious, but I'm not up on the latest plama technology. Earlier plasmas could definitely burn in (although rare) if you watched static content with the contrast & brightness cranked up. I'd usually go with a LCD/DLP if you're looking to play alot of xbox/playstation games just to be safe.

I actually looked at the Best Buy web-site, and they have the same explanation as the Circuit City salesperson about pixel-shifting televisions. So I think the guy was telling the truth. At CC this morning they had a Panasonic ED-TV for sale at $1949. What is the difference between ED and HD?

Thanks for the help!

MizzouRah · 08-14-2005, 05:49 PM

www.samsung.com

Soon, when we move into a new house.. a Samsung DLP HDTV will be moving in with us.

yabanci · 08-14-2005, 07:36 PM

what is the life expectency of these plasma and LCD TVs?

dawgfan · 08-14-2005, 08:48 PM

Here's a basic primer as found at C/NET: various TV types explained

Flasch186 · 08-14-2005, 10:48 PM

i bought my Samsung DLP in April and the Color wheel is killing my ears, so I called Samsung and theyre having a guy come out this week to replace it free of charge. apparently this is a common problem with the ones that were shipped with the TV's.

moriarty · 08-15-2005, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgadfly

Probably about 12-15 feet most of the time.

At that distance, you're probably looking at a 50-55" set ideally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgadfly

I probably won't be watching HD-TV for awhile (maybe next year). I watch a lot of movies and a fair amount of regular television.

Well one thing to ask the sales person, is to put the set on standard television to see how it looks. It's gonna look kinda crappy, no way around that, but different TV's have different stretch modes to fill up the screen. Compare them. (usually the dealers have a DVD or HD loop to make the picture look as good as possible, so make them switch it to get a realistic idea).

If you're not watching HD for a while, look for HD ready (not a built in tuner). No point paying for it at this point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgadfly

At CC this morning they had a Panasonic ED-TV for sale at $1949. What is the difference between ED and HD?

ED is like a poor man's HD. Basically you dont' get as high of a resolution. I'd personally avoid it. Either get a real HD set (knowing that you'll eventually switch to HD) or get a non-HD set for cheaper.

I personally have owned a Samsung DLP for several years, and have been very happy with it. I know you can get a 43" pretty cheap at places like Costco, etc.. (it may be a slightly older model, but that shouldn't affect you). I'd look at this or something similar, but I'm not sure there's going to be alot above 43" in your price range if you looking at HD Ready. Good luck.

moriarty · 08-15-2005, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yabanci

what is the life expectency of these plasma and LCD TVs?

I'm not sure anyone knows yet, as they haven't been out long enough to get real figures ... although I'm sure they've done some lab tests.

I've heard the earlier plasmas might not last as long ... but unless you are a real heavy user I would expect at least 8 years.

Airhog · 08-15-2005, 04:42 PM

I remember reading that you can expect a current generation plasma to still have 70% of its color after 8 years. I think the average life of the plasma screen is like 18 years. The electronics will probably give out long before that

jamesUMD · 08-15-2005, 04:47 PM

I bought a DLP projector from Tigerdirect.com for $849, screen for $120, and have the HD resolution of a plasma screen. I have the actual movie screen hung on my basement wall and the projector mounted on the ceiling. Screen's 112 inches, but the projector can go up to 260 inches. People freak out when they see it. I love it and I am very happy I went that route.

08-14-2005, 02:45 PM	#2
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Doesn't answer many of your questions, but it seemed timely. http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D8BV88U80.html Flat-Screen TV Prices Finally Coming Down Aug 13, 7:38 PM (ET) By GREG SANDOVAL SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Bud Werner and his wife are longtime movie buffs. For more than a year, he pined for a flat-panel television, thrilled by 60-inch screens thin enough to hang on a wall and turn his living room into a mini-movie theater. But he couldn't overcome sticker shock: Some flat panels were selling for as much as $20,000 at first, as much as a new car. Like a lot of fans of flat-panel TVs, Werner, who owns a sign-making business, held off buying. Until now, that is. Prices for flat panels have finally begun to tumble - by as much as 35 percent in the past year - as soaring demand for the two leading flat-panel technologies, plasma and liquid crystal display, or LCD, attracts a host of new competitors. "I'm excited," said Werner, 54, whose patience was rewarded this month when he bought a 50-inch plasma television at Best Buy for $3,800. "We already have the wall picked out where it's going to hang." Lesser-known brands, such as Westinghouse Electric Co., Regent USA's Maxent, Syntax Corp.'s Olevia and Norcent Micro Inc. are slashing prices to compete against more-established names like Sharp Corp. and Sony Corp. (SNE), forcing them, in turn, to charge less. Semiconductors and other TV components also are getting cheaper, and the industry continues to find ways to trim production costs. Now, a 42-inch liquid crystal model retails for about $4,200 on average, and the same-sized high-definition plasma sells for around $2,900, said Riddhi Patel, senior analyst for iSuppli, a market research firm in El Segundo, Calif. Still too expensive? Price-conscious consumers shouldn't worry, analysts say, as flat-panel prices have yet to bottom out. Some major retail chains continue to charge a premium for plasma and liquid crystal sets, pocketing 25 percent profits on larger models, Patel said. "There is plenty of room for retailers to squeeze more out of their profit margins and attract customers," she said. Proof that flat-panel TVs is a boon for retailers can be found in their earnings statements. Best Buy Co. (BBY) saw an 85 percent jump in first-quarter profits due in part to skyrocketing sales of flat-panel televisions, while struggling electronics retailer Circuit City Stores Inc. (CC) saw triple-digit increases. Representatives for Best Buy, Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (WMT) and Costco Wholesale Corp. (COST), did not respond to requests for comment, while Bill Cimino of Circuit City refused to discuss profit margins, though he did say more price reductions are expected. The price war, meanwhile, is taking a toll on flat-panel manufacturers. Sony blamed increased competition from Asian manufacturers who produce cheaper goods, including flat-panels TVs, when it reduced its full-year forecast by 90 percent. Last month, Sony, Toshiba Corp., and Hitachi Ltd. (HIT) reported quarterly losses. Some manufacturers have agreed to share risk and expense. Hitachi and Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., the maker of Panasonic televisions, began jointly making LCD televisions in February, as did Sharp and Fujitsu Ltd. Despite the competitive environment, the companies continue to invest heavily in flat panels knowing that once the market matures they stand to cash in. About 20.8 million flat-panel TVs will be sold this year worldwide, almost double the 10.9 million units sold in 2004. Sales next year should rise 47 percent, iSuppli said. Though CRTs have served consumers well for a half-century, flat panels are appealing because they take less space and can be hung on walls. Misperception may also play a role. When it comes to picture, most analysts say CRTs are just as good as flat panels, yet many consumers are under the assumption that flat panels are all high definition and thus offer better picture quality. In retail showrooms, flat panels typically display high-definition digital content, so they look superior to CRTs. Consumers don't always know that some flat panels can't receive high definition, or that CRTs can be formatted to get such programming. When it comes to performance among flat-panel makers, paying more doesn't necessarily mean a better picture, said Eric Haruki, an analyst for research firm IDC. More than 90 percent of the world's LCD panels are supplied by five companies, so top-tier brands and generics often share the same components, according to Haruki. "Some of these companies buy top-notch components from the big players and rebrand them," Haruki said. "The technology is pretty good across the board." Greg Gudorf, Sony's vice president of television marketing, insists top-tier manufacturers have an expertise lesser-known brands can't match. "What is their manufacturing expertise in processing video signals?" Gudorf asked. "That's where Sony's heritage comes in. We know how to make a picture look good." But James Li, chief executive of Syntax, argues that heritage is meaningless when it comes to new technology. "We all entered the LCD era on the same playing field," he said. "Everybody is working with the same technology. Consumers have already learned that the brand name is not the single most important factor in their purchase." There is just as much debate over whether to buy now or wait until prices drop further. Patel is in the market for a new television, but she is waiting until after holiday shopping peaks. She said retailers are apt to offer their best deals then. Russ Johnston, senior vice president of marketing for Pioneer Electronics Inc., agrees the cost-conscious can wait. But for those who want the best TV experience in time for the upcoming football season and baseball playoffs, there's no better time to buy. "If you look at August through November, those are the best TV months," Johnston said. "Sports fans are going to invite people over and want to show off their new TV. They're done waiting." __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 08-14-2005 at 02:46 PM.

08-14-2005, 07:36 PM	#6
yabanci College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2003	what is the life expectency of these plasma and LCD TVs? Last edited by yabanci : 08-14-2005 at 07:38 PM.

08-14-2005, 10:48 PM	#8
Flasch186 Coordinator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL	i bought my Samsung DLP in April and the Color wheel is killing my ears, so I called Samsung and theyre having a guy come out this week to replace it free of charge. apparently this is a common problem with the ones that were shipped with the TV's. __________________ Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL

08-15-2005, 04:42 PM	#11
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	I remember reading that you can expect a current generation plasma to still have 70% of its color after 8 years. I think the average life of the plasma screen is like 18 years. The electronics will probably give out long before that __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

08-15-2005, 04:47 PM	#12
jamesUMD High School JV Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Baltimore, MD	I bought a DLP projector from Tigerdirect.com for $849, screen for $120, and have the HD resolution of a plasma screen. I have the actual movie screen hung on my basement wall and the projector mounted on the ceiling. Screen's 112 inches, but the projector can go up to 260 inches. People freak out when they see it. I love it and I am very happy I went that route. __________________ HailtotheRedskins!

08-14-2005, 05:49 PM	#5
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Troy, Mo	www.samsung.com Soon, when we move into a new house.. a Samsung DLP HDTV will be moving in with us.

08-14-2005, 08:48 PM	#7
dawgfan Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Seattle	Here's a basic primer as found at C/NET: various TV types explained

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