08-05-2005, 10:59 AM | #1 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
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Atlanta Hawks, Worst Pro Sports Franchise?
Its bad enough that the Hawks only won 13 games last season. Now there is a huge mess with their planned Acquisition of Joe Johnson, because one of their partners won't sign off on the deal. Seriously, what the hell is going on.
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Last edited by stevew : 08-05-2005 at 11:11 AM. |
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08-05-2005, 11:06 AM | #2 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Springfield, USA
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Yes, they simply are. What message is this now sending to any future FA? "You can't count on a contract agreement from Atlanta. There are too many cooks in the kitchen" This will also bleed over to the Thrashers (since this is the same owner group). Talk about shooting themselves in the foot. They might as well put the teams back up for sale.
Last edited by HomerJSimpson : 08-05-2005 at 11:06 AM. |
08-05-2005, 11:20 AM | #3 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Northern Suburbs of ATL
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Luckily so far this hasn't been an issue on the Hockey side, mostly because the acting Hockey "Governer" (whatever the hell that is), isn't Belkin. Apparently Belkin is the only one that wants to nix this deal (and I'm guessing he wants to nix it because of a power play more than anything else), but because he's the Basketball "Governer" (that stupid title again) he has the athority to do that. The league is probably going to have to step in again. I knew when 9 people from 3 different cities purchased the teams - there were going to be problems. Last edited by Breeze : 08-05-2005 at 11:21 AM. |
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08-05-2005, 11:22 AM | #4 |
Head Coach
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Belkin is the only smart one. Johnson isn't worth that money.
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08-05-2005, 11:22 AM | #5 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2005
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They need to buy him out if they have any hope of salvaging this. |
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08-05-2005, 11:24 AM | #6 | |
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Location: Northern Suburbs of ATL
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Not arguing that point. However, I would say he probably should have said something like "If you try to make this deal I'm going to veto it." so we wouldn't be in this position. (of course that assumes that he didnt' say that and the Washington and Atlanta groups are making a power play on Belkin). I'm so confused... |
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08-05-2005, 11:25 AM | #7 | |
Head Coach
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this probably should have come up at some point before. I would guess that it must have.
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08-05-2005, 11:25 AM | #8 |
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One thing i didnt know is that the Hawks pick is only lottery protected for one season, meaning if the Hawks miss the playoffs next year(a virtual certainty), in 2007 they would only have top 3 protection on the pick, with none the following year.
I can see Belkins point of not wanting to pay a non all star the Maximum salary, including a baloon payment of 20 million this season. Plus giving up potentially a really good draft pick, plus giving up another midround draft pick, plus also giving up a decent young player(Diaw). Unless, of course, he is just using this as a power grab. Last edited by stevew : 08-05-2005 at 11:26 AM. |
08-05-2005, 11:27 AM | #9 | |
College Benchwarmer
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From what I have heard, he initially agreed to the deal, and only balked when it came to actually signing the final paperwork. I would think (if true) that would be enough to give the team legal right to remove him from the NBA governor. |
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08-05-2005, 11:27 AM | #10 | |
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Supposedly the rough parameters of the Sign and Trade were in place, but issues on the lottery protection of the picks were not. Belkin may feel torpedo'd by his GM. |
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08-05-2005, 11:36 AM | #11 |
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Belkin is right to block this idiotic deal ... 2 #1's plus cash in return for a pretty good SG that is somehow supposed to morph into a PG capable of molding a team of very young talent, all while making serious All-Star money. This plus the bizarre "let's have a roster of nothing but SG's & SF's" plan that Billy Knight appears to be working under, leaves me thinking that Belkin is the only one who has a clue what he's doing.
That said, I believe him being 100% right to do anything he can to torpedo this deal is nothing more than blind luck, he's doing it for the powerplay IMO, he's just right by happenstance.
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08-05-2005, 11:45 AM | #12 |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
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To answer once and for all how bad the Hawks are, and how little support they have in Atlanta, think about this. $199 for season tickets. Full season tickets. 40+ games. Granted, they aren't the best seats, but Philips Arena doesn't really have horrible seats.
Move this team somewhere that cares. The only people who will miss them are fans of other teams that won't see their team in town each year. |
08-05-2005, 05:08 PM | #13 | |
Pro Starter
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Location: Troy, NY
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Damn, that is insane. I never realized Hawks games were that cheap. You're right about there being no bad seats in Phillips Arena -- for hockey, you can get $10 seats on the blue line right at the front of the 2nd level!!!
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08-05-2005, 05:10 PM | #14 |
Go Reds
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio
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Johnson might not be worth that kind of money but it is important they sign a player of his caliber just to bring some fans back and compete for a better season than 13 wins.
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08-05-2005, 05:27 PM | #15 | |
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Sorry, but signing a SG to play point alongside four SF's ain't gonna bring me back.
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08-05-2005, 05:37 PM | #16 |
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My only firsthand experience with the Hawks was when I was in town for a broadcasting conference about 3-4 years ago. Our first night there we decided to go see the Hawks/Knicks. Ugh. The funny part is, there was a Run DMC concert after the game (basically the reason we decided to go in the first place). At the beginning of the game it was about 25% of capacity. It slowly increased as the game went on until it reached about 80% just as the concert was starting. I've never seen anything like that.
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08-05-2005, 07:37 PM | #17 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Normally I would agree Jon. JJ has his problems and maybe he isn't quite worth the money. That said. . . 1) The baloon payment up front will leave the Hawks with cap space in year 2 and 3. Considering they have the cap space now, it isn't a horrible thing to overpay for a solid player. 2) JJ is a terrific young player. When you compare him to Michael Redd, you see that JJ is on the same playing field with him and is a better shooter. JJ is a better passer, defender, rebounder. . . His contract is not a stretch. 3) This is most important. . . JJ WANTS TO PLAY FOR THE HAWKS. That's simply stunning. Why would you want to play there? If you're the Hawks, this is a dream come true. He wants to play point? Fine, let him play point for a year and move him to the 2 if it doesn't work out. Too many 2's and 3's? Fine, trade em. Most of them have some value. Marquee free agents aren't exactly banging down the Hawks door to take their money. JJ is a young player with star potential who truly wants to be in Atlanta. IMO, that's worth taking a chance on, even if it means overpaying a little bit. All of that said, this is some pretty amazing stuff. The conduct of all the owners (through lack of communication or otherwise) is going to destroy any chances of success the team has. Williams has to be looking at this and counting the days to his FA. |
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08-05-2005, 07:40 PM | #18 | |
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Actually the baloon payment wont affect his cap number. The upfront payment was merely a way to get him the most money, as quickly as possible, and also to hopefully make the Suns think hard about matching him, since they'd be paying so much cash up front. He'll make 20 million this year, his cap figure will be roughly 12.5 million. Last edited by stevew : 08-05-2005 at 07:42 PM. |
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08-05-2005, 07:42 PM | #19 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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[quote=stevew][quote=TroyF]
1) The baloon payment up front will leave the Hawks with cap space in year 2 and 3. Considering they have the cap space now, it isn't a horrible thing to overpay for a solid player. Quote:
Interesting. When the Nuggets payed the up front money to Andre Miller to get him from the Clippers, his cap value was big the first year, went down the second year, and started rising in year 3. |
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08-05-2005, 07:43 PM | #20 |
Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Uh.... Yay, Thrashers?
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08-05-2005, 07:50 PM | #21 | |
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I know nothing about basketball, and have nothing to add to the debate, but am glad I read this post just for this single word... To (mis?)quote Blackadder 'Make a note of that word: I like it & want to use it in future conversations)
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08-05-2005, 07:55 PM | #22 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: GA
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Wow. I forgot we even had a basketball team. Go figure.
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08-05-2005, 07:57 PM | #23 | |
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I believe thats cause Miller made less than the Maximum salary, so they could build the decrease into the contract, to make it less likely to be matched. |
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08-05-2005, 08:15 PM | #24 | |
College Starter
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They want people to pay $199 for season tickets? What a fucking rip off. |
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08-05-2005, 08:16 PM | #25 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Cool. Either way, I still think the JJ signing would be good for the Hawks. Now, why JJ actually wants to go to that clown outfit, I have no idea. And what the hell do the Suns do if this thing falls through? They've lowballed him for a year. Now they'll be in a position to do so again. JJ could be a very unhappy camper. If I were a team in need of a SG, I'd be on the phone to the Suns right now trying to work out an S&T if this thing falls through. |
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08-05-2005, 11:00 PM | #26 | |
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I can think of, oh, 70 million reasons.
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08-05-2005, 11:35 PM | #27 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Yeah, but Jon, the Suns said they'd match it. The Suns almost certainly would have matched it had JJ not asked them to let him go and complained about the way they treated him. That's what gets me. Even after the Suns said they'd match the money, JJ turned around and said "No, I'm not kidding, I WANT to go to Atlanta and play in front of 15 people" It's stunning and it's one reason I think the Hawks need to find a way to get the deal done. I think one of the most underestimated things in sports is having guys who honestly want to play for your team. You have the guys taking a paycheck. You have all the disloyalty in sports. But when you have a guy that comes out and says that he wants to play for your team, I think that means something. And lets face it, not a lot of people want to go play for the Hawks. You have to take what you can get. |
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08-06-2005, 03:38 AM | #28 |
High School JV
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Mesa, AZ
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I'd like to think that somewhere, Dominique Wilkins is laughing, but rarely do my fantasies come true. Just ask my girlfriend.
Living in Phoenix now, its very interesting to see the two sides of this. Many out here have blasted Robert Sarver for (in their eyes) giving up on JJ, when the Republic and other news outlets have said that JJ had to go, and the whole mess reveals some salary woes the Suns were sure to experience. One thing this town can seem to agree on is that the Hawks are a laughingstock. Granted, I watched most of the Suns previous season and quite frankly never understood why JJ was worth that kind of money to any team (including the Suns). But hey, I was the one guy in Atlanta who thought the B.J. Surhoff deal was a good idea. Last edited by ctmason : 08-06-2005 at 03:39 AM. |
08-06-2005, 12:06 PM | #29 | |
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Actually, right now Dominique is thinking, "This is real damaging. This can't work if everybody is pulling in different directions." |
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08-06-2005, 12:57 PM | #30 | |
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Is this some sort of odd payback for those people who come and crap in the NHL threads with stuff like "I don't care about the NHL" SI
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