Jose Guillen

[Easy Mac]

Is he psychotic? He tries to decleat a man's groin, and this is what he says in response to being called out on it (with context included):

As Jones was awaiting the throw from McCann, he had his back to Guillen, who slid with his cleats high, tearing Jones' pants. Jones said he initially did not know he had been spiked."I didn't know what had hit me, I just knew it was high and hard," Jones said. "I turned around and said 'What's up with that?' and he immediately started apologizing. It's kind of hard to deck a guy when he is apologizing."When it was suggested Guillen and the Nationals were frustrated, Jones said: "The next time I get frustrated, I'll try to take it out on their best player and see how he feels about it. ... We'll see what happens the next time we play them."Jones, who stayed in the game, said he had a minor cut on his leg.The teams meet in a four-game series in Atlanta from Aug. 29-Sept. 1.Guillen said he was just trying to prevent a double play and didn't think he did anything wrong."Wait until next time and I'll show you what a dirty play is," Guillen said when told of Jones' comments.

This guy is seriously crazy. There's no reason the bring your cleats up that high on a slide, and to think you did nothing wrong? What could you do thats worse, hit someone with a bat? Not quite as bad a Sosa's slide the other night (where he basically karate kicked the catcher), but could have completely destroyed a player if he wasn't positioned better. Do they just not teach people how to slide down there or something?

[Samdari]

Did you see the play. He had his foot turned up, but his leg was on the ground, thus it seems unlikely he was trying to go for the groin. Jones went down to get the ball, making the result worse than it should have been. And Guillen apologized immediately, IMO indicating that he did not mean to get Jones there.

Does Chipper really still think he is Atlanta's best player?

[Toddiec]

I watched the game and saw the play. The thing that made me think he was trying to take Chipper out was that he slid directly toward Chipper on the home side of the base and not directly toward the base. My memory could be a little fuzzy, but I thought his leg was off the ground and angled up. I just remember seeing the play and thinking immediately "Yeah, he tried to spike him". Jose knew he did something wrong or else he would not have started apologizing for fear of getting popped (as if that ever happens in a baseball fight).

I never really understood the benefit of spiking someone on a play at third. I remember seeing a guy spiking someone at second to break up the double play, but why at third? Do you hope the third baseman will freak out and drop the ball? Are you just trying to hurt him to take him out of the game?

[Samdari]

He definitely was trying to take him out, he slid right at Chipper's leg, instead of the base. He also had his spikes directly out. I just don't think he was trying to go high. I think it was an unfortunate series of events, including Guillen sliding like that, and Chipper directing his groin in the way of the spikes that made it seem dirtier than it was.

I don't think apologizing necesarily meant he knew he was trying to go high. He could have been explaining "Hey man, I didn't mean to get you there"

[Toddiec]

Samdari, you may be right. The more I think about it, the more I lean to the side of him not doing it intentionally. I think the one deciding factor for me was the question "If he meant to spike him, why did he apologize?". Heck, if he wanted to impale a person with little pointed pieces of metal, why does he care what the guy thinks of him afterwards.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Toddiec

Samdari, you may be right. The more I think about it, the more I lean to the side of him not doing it intentionally. I think the one deciding factor for me was the question "If he meant to spike him, why did he apologize?". Heck, if he wanted to impale a person with little pointed pieces of metal, why does he care what the guy thinks of him afterwards.

That's the way I read it - he tried to take him out, ended up doing so much more dangerously than intended, and apologized when asked about it.

[Chas in Cinti]

Did anyone see the play with Sammy Sosa from a day or two ago where he basically drop-kicked the catcher on a slide into home? I hesitate to call it a slide since he was airborne... These guys amaze me at what they think they can get away with! Where's Bob Gibson when you need him?

-Chas

[WSUCougar]

I didn't see either play, but unless the sliding players are called out by the umpires or addressed by the league for dirty play, this falls under the umbrella of "hard baseball." Going in with cleats high used to be much more common than it is now. It's an intimidation move, pure and simple. If a runner is bearing down on a fielder at the bag, the fielder needs to realize that they are in harm's way to a certain degree.

Now what I would expect, if I were Chipper Jones, is that the next time Mr. Guillen comes to bat against the Braves, he gets a fastball in the ass (the meaty part, not the hole).

As for the homeplate collisions, the catchers are blocking the plate, and the runner is entitled to get there. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Again, unless the umpire or league says otherwise...tally ho.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I get the impression that the Guillen/Jones incident, combined with the Robinson complaints to the umpire & the reaction it got, means the relationship between the teams isn't exactly peachy at this point. Looks like the Nationals are frustrated & it's making them desparate, the Braves are in turn reacting to that, almost expecting Washington to do something stupid (like try to spike somebody in the groin). Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy sort of deal, where nothing questionable is going to get the benefit of any doubt at all.

When was the Braves last real bean-ball war? Years ago with the Phillies maybe, when the Braves staff had to decide whether to plunk Dale Murphy?

[MrBug708]

Jose Guillen is an ass-wipe and gets no latitude

[pennywisesb]

The thing about the slide was that he didn't start sliding until he was like 2 feet from the bag--I mean his butt came down on the bag! So, in IMO, there was definately alittle shadyness going on. I'm not sure if he was going for the groin per se, but he was definately trying to spike Chipper, or else he wouldn't of slid so late. I agree with Bug as well. This is a guy who has had a bad attitude since day 1, hence the 4 different teams in 2 years. He seems to be a problem everywhere he goes and situations like this won't help him try to build a better rep. I'm all for playing hard, but when it comes to situtations like this, where it seems you're trying to injure another player, thats when I have a problem. What a weener.