Starting pitcher for NL All-Stars?

WSUCougar · 07-07-2005, 09:52 AM

I'm admittedly biased, but I'd go with the Cards' Chris Carpenter. Dontrelle Willis is the only other one I'd consider, but I'm curious what others think.

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere.

SackAttack · 07-07-2005, 09:54 AM

LaRussa is managing the team, so I'd have to think he rewards Carpenter here.

JeeberD · 07-07-2005, 09:54 AM

It would have been Roger again if not for our crappy bullpen. It's hard to argue against a 1.50 ERA...

Of course after last year's showing, it's probably a blessing that he's not starting.

WSUCougar · 07-07-2005, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeeberD

It would have been Roger again if not for our crappy bullpen. It's hard to argue against a 1.50 ERA...

Of course after last year's showing, it's probably a blessing that he's not starting.

Yeah, the win/loss record and the fact that he got the nod last year, was bombed, and Piazza is the catcher have to rule him out, despite the wicked E.R.A.

And I think Carpenter merits the start, not just because LaRussa is the manager.

MikeVic · 07-07-2005, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Yeah, the win/loss record and the fact that he got the nod last year, was bombed, and Piazza is the catcher have to rule him out, despite the wicked E.R.A.

And I think Carpenter merits the start, not just because LaRussa is the manager.

Damn why didn't the Jays keep Carpenter. I always thought he was a nice #2 or 3... imagine him with Halladay now.

Lathum · 07-07-2005, 11:01 AM

Pedro

rkmsuf · 07-07-2005, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

Pedro

I think he's pitching right before for the Mets. He never goes to these anyway.

Balldog · 07-07-2005, 11:10 AM

Carpenter is having a great year!

Radii · 07-07-2005, 11:15 AM

Carpenter is having a great year but what is the case for Carpenter over Dontrelle? Best pitchers in the NL this year IMO so far are Dontrelle, clemens, Carpenter in that order. I can see the case for Carpenter over Clemens though... but not over Dontrelle.

Balldog · 07-07-2005, 11:21 AM

Carpenter is 12-4 with a 2.60 ERA and 121 K
Willis is 12-3 with a 2.04 ERA and 85 K
Clemens is 6-3 with a 1.50 ERA and 104 K

The only reason I am thinking Carpenter is because he is on the best team in the NL and his manager is making the decision.

WSUCougar · 07-07-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii

Carpenter is having a great year but what is the case for Carpenter over Dontrelle? Best pitchers in the NL this year IMO so far are Dontrelle, clemens, Carpenter in that order. I can see the case for Carpenter over Clemens though... but not over Dontrelle.

Since it matters for home field in the Series, I think you go with the hottest pitcher among the deserving ones, and not taking anything away from Dontrelle - he has been awesome - here are the combined stats from Carpenter's last five starts (5-0):

41-2/3 innings
17 hits
2 earned runs
7 BBs
45 Ks

Has Dontrelle been that hot of late? (I honestly don't know).

Swaggs · 07-07-2005, 12:07 PM

I'd go with Clemens. He's a legend.

Hammer755 · 07-07-2005, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii

Carpenter is having a great year but what is the case for Carpenter over Dontrelle? Best pitchers in the NL this year IMO so far are Dontrelle, clemens, Carpenter in that order. I can see the case for Carpenter over Clemens though... but not over Dontrelle.

Ditto, and I'd throw Pedro in there before Carpenter also. His ERA is freakishly high considering his BAA, WHIP, K/9, and K/BB ratio.

Swaggs · 07-07-2005, 12:41 PM

Actually, Clemens or Pedro versus the AL managed by the Red Sox Manager would be fairly interesting.

WSUCougar · 07-07-2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I'd go with Clemens. He's a legend.

Yeah, he was a legend last year, too, and he got absolutely shelled by the A.L.

korme · 07-07-2005, 01:37 PM

For the sake of putting on a good show for the fans, I suggest the NL squad starts Eric Milton.

Swaggs · 07-07-2005, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Yeah, he was a legend last year, too, and he got absolutely shelled by the A.L.

If you want to use small sample sizes, go ahead and use Carpenter's last five games versus Clemens' start in the All Star game last season.

Throw Clemens, Willis, Carpenter, and Pedro in a hat and pull a name out randomly--you aren't going to know what they're going to do in three innings of an All Star game versus an All Star lineup.

As a fan and to make it more memorable, I'd rather see Clemens or Pedro (or even Dontrelle) pitch.

Ksyrup · 07-07-2005, 01:53 PM

Uh...Pedro's a moot point. Wagner is now on the team.

rkmsuf · 07-07-2005, 01:54 PM

Guy never goes. Amazingly his father is sick every single year at all star time.

Ksyrup · 07-07-2005, 01:58 PM

This year it's that he is starting on Sunday. Probably had them arrange the rotation back in April to make sure he pitched that day.

rkmsuf · 07-07-2005, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This year it's that he is starting on Sunday. Probably had them arrange the rotation back in April to make sure he pitched that day.

It was probably in the contract. Flies out Sunday night and isn't back until 10 minutes before their next game if at all until his next start.

CentralMassHokie · 07-07-2005, 03:04 PM

If I'm the Mets, I don't want Pedro pitching in a meaningless game anyway. I love the All Star Game, but there's too big of a risk with an investment like Pedro.

Not that I think Pedro is all that fragile anymore (in fact, preseason I argued with many a Sox fan that Schilling was a far bigger risk ... too bad I was right.)

Radii · 07-07-2005, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Since it matters for home field in the Series

Well, the first problem is that I refuse to acknowledge this absurdity.

Quote:

Carpenter's last five starts (5-0):

41-2/3 innings
17 hits
2 earned runs
7 BBs
45 Ks

He got shelled two starts ago in Atlanta(5 ER in 7 IP). In the other 4 starts, 1 ER, 2 shutouts, so no, not that hot lately, but he's been the best pitcher in the first half so he deserves it no matter what IMO.

WSUCougar · 07-07-2005, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

If you want to use small sample sizes, go ahead and use Carpenter's last five games versus Clemens' start in the All Star game last season.

You're missing my point. The All-Star game isn't about legendary players (and don't get me wrong, Clemens has had a first-ballot HOF career and an amazing first half). He was pitching great last season and got the start in the All-Star game as well. For whatever reason, he got lit up, and that contributed greatly to the A.L. winning the game and gaining home-field in the World Series.

So now you're saying "I'd go with Clemens. He's a legend." Which I take to mean that you feel he's earned the start for the N.L. over the other two because he's legendary. To which I say, honor be damned, go with Carpenter (or Willis) because I think they are better options in terms of winning the game. No pitcher is pitching any better than Carpenter right now, in my opinion, and his stats match up with anyone.

WSUCougar · 07-07-2005, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii

Well, the first problem is that I refuse to acknowledge this absurdity.

Well, I guarantee you that Tony LaRussa acknowledges it.

KWhit · 07-07-2005, 03:59 PM

It should be Willis, but probably won't be.

Swaggs · 07-07-2005, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

You're missing my point. The All-Star game isn't about legendary players (and don't get me wrong, Clemens has had a first-ballot HOF career and an amazing first half). He was pitching great last season and got the start in the All-Star game as well. For whatever reason, he got lit up, and that contributed greatly to the A.L. winning the game and gaining home-field in the World Series.

So now you're saying "I'd go with Clemens. He's a legend." Which I take to mean that you feel he's earned the start for the N.L. over the other two because he's legendary. To which I say, honor be damned, go with Carpenter (or Willis) because I think they are better options in terms of winning the game. No pitcher is pitching any better than Carpenter right now, in my opinion, and his stats match up with anyone.

I just don't see it. Unless the only measurement for being better is wins, I don't see how Carpenter is having a better season than Clemens.

Clemens plays half of his games in a hitter's park and has an ERA of 1.41 in 17 starts (Carpenter's is 2.51 in 18 starts). Clemens has given up only 74 hits and 33 BBs in 115 innings (Carpenter: 106 hits and 33 BBs in 129 innings). Clemens has given up 5 HRs (Carpenter: 9 HRs). In my opinion, you can argue that Clemens is slightly better, but I cannot see how you can argue that Carpenter is better other than his team has a much better offense.

Factor in last season (if you want a larger sample size) and Clemens gains a greater advantage.

As for being competitive, I would argue that Clemens's experience and familiarity with the All Star hoopla will likely allow him to be less star struck from being an All Star than it might for someone like Willis or Carpenter (although this isn't something we can measure).

MizzouRah · 07-07-2005, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Damn why didn't the Jays keep Carpenter. I always thought he was a nice #2 or 3... imagine him with Halladay now.

The Blue Jays don't have Duncan as a pitching coach.

FWIW, and I am a HUGE homer. I would go with Clemens, Willis, then Carpenter. I like ERA over wins.. plus you really can't go wrong with any of these 3. Any of them could start, and I would be fine with it.

Vince · 07-07-2005, 10:37 PM

Personally, I think a pitcher's W/L record is completely and utterly pointless.

Because of that, I think Clemens is the easiest choice, hands down. He's got a great number of strikeouts and has an absurdly low ERA (especially considering the field he pitches at half the time). I can see Carpenter over Willis, but not Clemens.

Balldog · 07-07-2005, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

For the sake of putting on a good show for the fans, I suggest the NL squad starts Eric Milton.

He should be the HR Derby pitcher, I think that would make up for the big dimensions of Comerica.

07-07-2005, 09:54 AM	#3
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	It would have been Roger again if not for our crappy bullpen. It's hard to argue against a 1.50 ERA... Of course after last year's showing, it's probably a blessing that he's not starting. __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

07-07-2005, 12:07 PM	#12
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I'd go with Clemens. He's a legend. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

07-07-2005, 12:41 PM	#14
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Actually, Clemens or Pedro versus the AL managed by the Red Sox Manager would be fairly interesting. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

07-07-2005, 01:53 PM	#18
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	Uh...Pedro's a moot point. Wagner is now on the team. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

07-07-2005, 01:54 PM	#19
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Guy never goes. Amazingly his father is sick every single year at all star time. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

07-07-2005, 09:54 AM	#2
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	LaRussa is managing the team, so I'd have to think he rewards Carpenter here.

07-07-2005, 11:01 AM	#6
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Pedro

07-07-2005, 11:10 AM	#8
Balldog Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Macomb, MI	Carpenter is having a great year!

07-07-2005, 11:15 AM	#9
Radii Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Carpenter is having a great year but what is the case for Carpenter over Dontrelle? Best pitchers in the NL this year IMO so far are Dontrelle, clemens, Carpenter in that order. I can see the case for Carpenter over Clemens though... but not over Dontrelle.

07-07-2005, 11:21 AM	#10
Balldog Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Macomb, MI	Carpenter is 12-4 with a 2.60 ERA and 121 K Willis is 12-3 with a 2.04 ERA and 85 K Clemens is 6-3 with a 1.50 ERA and 104 K The only reason I am thinking Carpenter is because he is on the best team in the NL and his manager is making the decision.

07-07-2005, 01:37 PM	#16
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	For the sake of putting on a good show for the fans, I suggest the NL squad starts Eric Milton.

07-07-2005, 01:58 PM	#20
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	This year it's that he is starting on Sunday. Probably had them arrange the rotation back in April to make sure he pitched that day. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

07-07-2005, 03:04 PM	#22
CentralMassHokie High School JV Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Massachusetts	If I'm the Mets, I don't want Pedro pitching in a meaningless game anyway. I love the All Star Game, but there's too big of a risk with an investment like Pedro. Not that I think Pedro is all that fragile anymore (in fact, preseason I argued with many a Sox fan that Schilling was a far bigger risk ... too bad I was right.)

07-07-2005, 03:59 PM	#26
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	It should be Willis, but probably won't be.

07-07-2005, 10:37 PM	#29
Vince Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Willow Glen, CA	Personally, I think a pitcher's W/L record is completely and utterly pointless. Because of that, I think Clemens is the easiest choice, hands down. He's got a great number of strikeouts and has an absurdly low ERA (especially considering the field he pitches at half the time). I can see Carpenter over Willis, but not Clemens. __________________ Every time a Dodger scores a run, an angel has its wings ripped off by a demon, and is forced to tearfully beg the demon to cauterize the wounds.The demon will refuse, and the sobbing angel will lie in a puddle of angel blood and feathers for eternity, wondering why the Dodgers are allowed to score runs.That’s not me talking: that’s science. McCoveyChronicles.com.

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