Podsednik, Oswalt are All-Stars (i.e. no Jeter)

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by John Galt

I'm fine with Hunter, Nixon, or Matsui. They are all having better seasons than Jeter. I just find it embarassing that Pods gets the vote when he is having a horrible season. A .700 OPS?!?!?! That's all it takes - this isn't the dead ball era.

Pods was voted in because of similar intangibles that have allowed people to raise Jeter from above average player to "I can say he's worth $19 million with a straight face." Sure, he doesn't have the post-season pedigree, but he's a team leader, he makes the offense "go," etc. Those aren't sabermetrics. But he's getting a big portion of the credit for how well the White Sox are doing, whether he deserves it or not.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Pods was voted in because of similar intangibles that have allowed people to raise Jeter from above average player to "I can say he's worth $19 million with a straight face." Sure, he doesn't have the post-season pedigree, but he's a team leader, he makes the offense "go," etc. Those aren't sabermetrics. But he's getting a big portion of the credit for how well the White Sox are doing, whether he deserves it or not.

Since I've criticized everyone here for lauding Jeter's intangibles, I see no problem in criticizing those who laud Pods. IMO, the fans screwed this one up big time.

And did Pods just get these intangibles when he came to the Sox? This sounds like Womack-love to me. Remember when he "got the Arizona offense started?" And now the Yankees are paying for that stupidity.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Ramzavail

Trot Nixon, funny one.

At the same time, I don't think you've been watching the White Sox, Podsednik has been playing ALOT of LF, not CF. Good try though.

No, I don't watch the White Sox. But I do know that Pod has been playing LF and CF - and when he plays LF, he tends to cover some CF ground as well.

As for Nixon, his stats are right in line with Jeter's.

Personally, I voted for Hunter.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Since I've criticized everyone here for lauding Jeter's intangibles, I see no problem in criticizing those who laud Pods. IMO, the fans screwed this one up big time.

And did Pods just get these intangibles when he came to the Sox? This sounds like Womack-love to me. Remember when he "got the Arizona offense started?" And now the Yankees are paying for that stupidity.

I agree with you. I'm kinda making the argument I've heard; it's not my argument. I'd love the guy's SBs and intangibles if his OPS was .850-.900, maybe. Then again, intangibles like team leadership don't necessarily make the team win, but they help keep a clubhouse together. I guess the response to your question could be, "he made the Brewers much better as a team than they would have been otherwise."

Does someone have to be a winner in order to positively affect their team? Would Jeter have been less of a class act/team leader if he had been dealt to the Pirates in 1995, or would he have made the Pirates instant winners? I suspect neither of those would have been the case, but that wouldn't diminish his affect on teammates and in the clubhouse in general.

We can't prove or disprove any of this, which is what makes it more fun to discuss.

[John Galt]

One more tidbit I forgot to mention - Pods has only played 4 games in CF this year.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Personally, I voted for Hunter.

ding ding ding - winner!

Everyone else if f'ing wrong. You vote for Hunter because he's god damn fun to watch.

[John Galt]

And I really need to get back to work, but Jeter is actually fairing quite well in defensive measures this year. He is 2nd in the AL in Range Factor (behind only Lugo). Strangely, Young is last in the AL for qualifiers. Jeter is 5th in zone rating, but is ahead of the 2 all-stars. He isn't great, but maybe his defensive progress from last year is sticking a little (and not a total fluke like I had thought).

As for Pods, he is 3rd in Range Factor, and fourth in zone rating. In other words, compared to his peers, he isn't really much different than Jeter (with the usual caveats about sample sizes and defensive metrics). And given he plays LF most of the time, Jeter's time at SS is worth way more.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

If you have a problem with Podsednik then you should have voted for 48 straight hours like every other White Sox fan did .

That's how he got in.

White Sox fans.

We are around.

Sort of.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by LastWhiteSoxFanStanding

If you have a problem with Podsednik then you should have voted for 48 straight hours like every other White Sox fan did .

That's how he got in.

White Sox fans.

We are around.

Sort of.

Interesting claim given your screen name.

[Ksyrup]

The rest are laying around. Drunk.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Interesting claim given your screen name.

And you no longer like Ayn Rand.

Times change.

[sterlingice]

The thing that made me most sad about the voting process for the 32nd man is that the NL had so many better players out there that any of the 5 you could have voted for as well as Morgan Ensberg were better than all of the 5 guys up for the vote in the AL.

SI

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

That is because the NL needed a 12th pitcher.

Blame Tony La Russa for not taking enough pitchers.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by LastWhiteSoxFanStanding

And you no longer like Ayn Rand.

Times change.

Well played. I got nuthin.

[Ramzavail]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

No, I don't watch the White Sox. But I do know that Pod has been playing LF and CF - and when he plays LF, he tends to cover some CF ground as well.

As for Nixon, his stats are right in line with Jeter's.

Personally, I voted for Hunter.

You dont watch them, but you know when he plays LF he tends to cover some CF as well? Interesting logic.

Trot Nixon's numbers are no where near Derek Jeter's. Trot Nixon doesn't play when theres a LHP on the mound. I.E. platoon player. When you are a healthy OF and you don't play 20% of your teams games, you shouldn't be considered for the all-star game with sub .290 AVG 9 HRs and 40RBIs.

[timmae]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Player A - .308/.395/.446, 145 TB, 10 HR, 66 R, 35 RBI, 10 SB
Player B - .289/.363/.337, 91 TB, 0 HR, 48 R, 17 RBI, 41 SB
Player C - .268/.301/.393, 138 TB, 7 HR, 52 R, 23 RBI, 19 SB

There is no way Player B is a better than player A this year unless you have the world's biggest SB fetish. 31 extra SB (at an 82% overall success rate) cannot offset 54 less TB's. Player B is not an all-star by any measure. Player A (who is 31 years old) is, of course, Jeter. Player B (who is 29 years old - not really a young player) is Pods. Jeter also plays a harder defensive position (even though I've argued here repeatedly that he doesn't play it very well).

Player C is only slightly more interesting. He is Jimmy Rollins. Setting contracts aside, the only possible justification for preferring Rollins over Jeter is age. Offensively, he is just not in the same ballpark and to say, "Rollins is a better player than Jeter in every way" is lunacy. His OBP is embarassing.

I'm no Jeter fan and regularly bash him, but picking Pods in the all-star balloting over him just doesn't make sense. The Jeter-backlash has gone too far when you can't see he is clearly a superior player having a superior season when compared to Pods.

As for Rollins, he has the age advantage, but Jeter is currently a much better offensive player that surely offsets any defensie margin.

Great logic if you are playing a text based sim...

Pods sets the table for the Sox. Would Iguchi play as well without Podsednik? Would the team have won as many games? We can't possible know the answer but the fact that the Sox are more than 30 games over .500 at the midway point of the season is an indicator that something drastic has changed since last year. Ozzie? Maybe... Frank, nope. I'd bet Scotty has a little bit to do with it. Of course some great pitching always helps. Ummm... reminds me, small ball Ozzie style. Could it be that Scotty was the main ingredient that the team needed? Who knows... I just enjoy watching him play.

[Buccaneer]

With all of this talk about the AL and its players, this thread sure went into the crapper.

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by Samdari

You're nuts. Rollins is a better player than Jeter in every way, and 5 years younger. No way they would trade Rollins for Jeter.

Please tell me that you are joking. Jeter is a better hitter in every way (better avg, better power, better obp, better slugging, etc), is a better lead-off hitter, and only slightly worse defensively.

[Ksyrup]

Funny thing is Rollins is on the All-Star team; Jeter's not (so far, anyway).

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Funny thing is Rollins is on the All-Star team; Jeter's not (so far, anyway).

Still, that's only a 3 month sample. I'd still rather have Jeter than Rollins and I'm right there on the Jeter is overrated bandwagon. That said, if we take contracts into account, Rollins in a landslide- unless you're a team that can afford to grossly overpay players.

SI

[Ksyrup]

Oh, I know. I just find it funny.