another MLB player suspended for using performance-enhancing substance

[lighthousekeeper]

link:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...x.html?cnn=yes


player: Brendan Donnelly
'performance-enhancing substance': pinetar
'suspension':remainder of game

[MrBug708]

Frank Robinson is an idiot and Jose Guillen needs a fastball at his face

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Frank Robinson is an idiot and Jose Guillen needs a fastball at his face

Robinson is an idiot because he called out a cheater?

[sterlingice]

That's really really funny. When was the last time there was a pine tar ejection?

SI

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

That's really really funny. When was the last time there was a pine tar ejection?

SI

Jay Howell P, 1988 NLCS?

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

That's really really funny. When was the last time there was a pine tar ejection?

SI

I think the amazing thing is that he was ejected before he even threw a pitch. I think this was a long time coming and Robinson was just the first manager to act on the rumors.

[heybrad]

I dont think Robinson is an idiot, but from everything I've heard, pinetar on the glove is fairly common in baseball and well known. Whether thats true or not, who knows. If it is then its a bit of a bush league move, but he's legally trying to help his team so...whatever.

The real idiot in the whole scene last night was Jose Guillen who went beserk and had to be dragged off by his teammates. I dont have the exact post game quotes, but apparantly he was pissed because he felt his manager was not being shown the proper respect. This is a guy who has worn out his welcome on numerous teams and reportedly tried to throw a chair at Mike Scioscia last year. For Jose Guillen to be getting upset and questioning anybody about respect is ridiculous.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by heybrad

I dont think Robinson is an idiot, but from everything I've heard, pinetar on the glove is fairly common in baseball and well known. Whether thats true or not, who knows. If it is then its a bit of a bush league move, but he's legally trying to help his team so...whatever.

The real idiot in the whole scene last night was Jose Guillen who went beserk and had to be dragged off by his teammates. I dont have the exact post game quotes, but apparantly he was pissed because he felt his manager was not being shown the proper respect. This is a guy who has worn out his welcome on numerous teams and reportedly tried to throw a chair at Mike Scioscia last year. For Jose Guillen to be getting upset and questioning anybody about respect is ridiculous.

Sorry but I think Guillen got the last laugh when he jacked a 2 run bomb off his former team.

[heybrad]

Originally Posted by Logan

Sorry but I think Guillen got the last laugh when he jacked a 2 run bomb off his former team.

You're right, but that doesnt mean he's not a complete dickweed.

[heybrad]

And with that... my goal of using the word "Dickweed" in my 1000th post has come true.

[Logan]

Hey...the dickweeds make the world go 'round.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Robinson is an idiot because he called out a cheater?

No response, eh?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by wade moore

No response, eh?

Trying to pick a fight, eh? You and Guillen have a lot in common.

Seriously, I'm not Bug, and I don't think Robinson is an idiot, nor do I think (although I wouldn't cry for him) that Guillen should get a ball to the face.

I do think that Robinson is a cranky old manager who severely overreacted to Scioscia's comments, and he has long established his credentials as a bit of a whiny peice of crud, HoF credentials and all. And Guillen is the poster boy for mental imbalance.

Was Donnelly technically cheating? Yes, and Scioscia even said he was. But only those truly grasping at straws to make their cases are saying that pinetar was actually being used to doctor the ball. It is very common practice to use it to help grip the ball when it gets slick late in games, and by sweaty pitchers (and in case you didn't notice, Donnelly is a big, fat galook of a guy who sweats like a demon).

Robinson was well within his legal rights to ask for the review, and the umpires were right to toss Donnelly for it. But Robinson also turned this all into a lowball affair by asking a pitcher to be thrown out despite the fact he knew the pitcher wasn't in fact engaged in actual foul play, but was only technically in violation of the rules. Then he made it ten times worse by A) trying to say there was sandpaper involved, because he knew his original charge (pinetar) was pretty pathetically weak to make this big a deal over; B) calling out Scioscia because the Angels manager said he would do the exact same thing to Robinson's pitchers; C) saying he had no respect for Scioscia as a manager, despite the fact that Scioscia has been a heck of a lot more successful than Robinson in a much shorter time, and that if the tables were turned, he would be doing the exact same thing to protect his own players; and D) for not putting the clamps on his babymouth outfielder, Guillen, who fanned the flames even further the next day by calling Scioscia a piece of garbage, among other things, despite the fact the latter was taking the high road and not trying to instigate anything.

Donnelly may be a "cheater", and Scioscia is no innocent in how things played out either, but Robinson just looks completely out of touch to me and lacks control of his ballplayers, and Guillen is a murder-suicide waiting to happen.

And if you believe Robinson's BS line that he picked this up from watching video of Donnelly and NOT Guillen tipping him off, I have a bet to make with you that St. Pete will likely be mentioning a couple bodies in Brentwood to Innocent Orenthal when he reaches the pearly gates.

[Booj]

Honestly, I've been trying to figure out how Robinson found out before seeing him pitch-- I guess Guillen is a logical assumption.

I think both managers were wrong though... Scioscia for arguing with Robinson on the field and Robinson for saying what he did.

Also, Guillen has been 'well behaved' before this incident so maybe there's something about the air in Anaheim-- or he just genuinely is very upset... It was probably emotional for him-- which doesn't excuse what he said. I would have much rathered his statements begin and end when he said "Whenever I face the Angels with Scioscia as manager it will be personal". To the point, and nothing controversial.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Booj

Honestly, I've been trying to figure out how Robinson found out before seeing him pitch-- I guess Guillen is a logical assumption.

I think both managers were wrong though... Scioscia for arguing with Robinson on the field and Robinson for saying what he did.

Also, Guillen has been 'well behaved' before this incident so maybe there's something about the air in Anaheim-- or he just genuinely is very upset... It was probably emotional for him-- which doesn't excuse what he said. I would have much rathered his statements begin and end when he said "Whenever I face the Angels with Scioscia as manager it will be personal". To the point, and nothing controversial.

I definitely think there is something personal between him and Anaheim, particularly Lackey, Washburn and Scioscia. He's lucky four or five of his teammates grabbed him and through him back into the Nats dugout Tuesday night, because they hadn't, he was making a beeline for Lackey, and given the Texan's size advantage and the fact he's just as pissed at Guillen, that would have been a sorry confrontation for Jose.

As for "well behaved", while I haven't kept a close eye on Guillen this year, I will say that what is apparent and what is going on behind the scenes are often two very different things. He seemed "well behaved" most of last season with the Angels, too. But then when the fit hit the shan, all this stuff came out that he did, and I remembered every one fo the incidents and how it was played lightly int he media throughout the year, so that there would be less impact.

It would surprise me very little to hear he is already rubbing several of his new teammates the wrong way. Guillen has played with seven teams in seven years, despite being a player of considerable talent and skill. That is no accident. You can ask fans in Oakland, Cincy, Tampa Bay and Pittsburgh if you want more info on that.

[Mr. Sparkle]

From an outsider's perspective, what exactly happened last year between Guillen and the Angels? I heard reports that he swung at Scioscia, but nothing definitive. Just curious as to what the exact cause of his suspension last year was, because he definately looked like he wanted to slay some dragons when the benches cleared.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

From an outsider's perspective, what exactly happened last year between Guillen and the Angels? I heard reports that he swung at Scioscia, but nothing definitive. Just curious as to what the exact cause of his suspension last year was, because he definately looked like he wanted to slay some dragons when the benches cleared.

Well, there have been a lot of rumors, but what seems to come through is that Guillen threw a temper tantrum both when he was taken out of the game, and in the clubhouse afterward. Scioscia tried to get him into his office to talk privately, but Guillen wouldn't go, and instead bitched out Scioscia in front of the whole team. There are varying reports about what happened after that. Some reports say Guillen took a swing at someone, either Scioscia or Erstad, from the sounds of it.

Anyway, Scioscia was apparently willing to leave it up to management on what to do, and Stoneman and Moreno both agreed to suspend Guillen for the rest of the season and for whatever playoffs, if they happened (at the time the Angels were behind Oakland for the AL West spot). And after Guillen's presence was removed, the team only lost two of its final eight games (over TEX and OAK on the road mostly) and won the division. Most people thought that was no accident, that without Guillen's brooding presence, the team was finally able to focus on just playing baseball.

Also, the last flare up was just the final straw. Guillen constantly bitched about being taken out of games, and would miss team meetings. He publically complained about pitchers not protecting him and Vlad in May, despite the fact Lackey had been thrown out of that very game defending him. He was a moody clubhouse presense who had gotten into a lot of arguments with players behind the scenes. He even was pissing off Vlad (very easy going guy) by constantly comparing his stats to Vlad's.

In the offseason he was dealt to the Nats.

[Easy Mac]

Frank Robinson is the biggest whiner in all of baseball. I wouldn't mind seeing Mike Scoscia deck him.

[Booj]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Frank Robinson is the biggest whiner in all of baseball. I wouldn't mind seeing Mike Scoscia deck him.

I agree.. he argues about every call no matter how wrong he is and he seems to think that because he's "Frank Robinson", he'll get it reversed..

I can't wait until he retires; but if Bowden is still the GM, I'm scared to see who'll replace him...

As for Guillen (keep in mind the only Nats coverage I get for the most part is Nationals.com) there was an article which had Robinson and Guillen talking about his past and present and how much he respects Frank and blah blah... so I'm not sure about the stuff going on behind the scenes... but I wouldn't be surprised...

On a side note, Guillen has asked for the fences to be moved in (he only has 1 HR at RFK, 11 on the road)