Civil War - Bull Run

[scooter]

I don't know if any of you guys have heard about this game. It used to be called Take Command 1861 - First Bull Run. I've been following it's development for almost a year now. It looks like an interesting idea. The company is called Mad Minute Games. It's a couple of guys who have written their own game and have just found a publisher so it's looking pretty likely that it will be out soon (they say some time in January). Here's the website:

http://www.madminutegames.com/

Here is some more information on the game from the website:

“Take Command 1861 - 1st Bull Run” is what the industry is calling today a garage game. A game created by a group of individuals on their own time using their own resources with no external funding from publishers or investors. Our goal is to create a fun real time war game. We follow all the rules and use the weapons, strategies, and tactics of the Civil War without limiting our game play to the actual battles of the era. The game engine that we are developing will be fully customizable by the player. You will be able to create your own maps, modify ballistics, and basically change the entire game.

Partial Features List updated 7/14/2004:

-- Real-time tactical combat with a 10:1 soldier to sprite ratio.
--3D terrain & 3Dsound
--Tactical grading system that evaluates and grades a player’s performance during combat.
--Courier message system for receiving orders and communicating with AI controlled superior leaders.
--AI leader’s attributes & personality affect tactical tendencies and strategic movements.
--Units run out of ammunition.
--Ammo/Ordinance wagons re-supply units on the field.
--Player only controls troops directly below his command…all other troops are controlled by AI and carry out their part of the fight without input from player. Throughout the day’s battle, the AI gives the player various orders that the player must carry out.
--Manage your unit’s morale, fatigue, supply, training & health.
--Historically accurate state & national flags (along with all Corps flags from the Army of the Potomac).
--Accurate ballistics modeling of muskets, rifles, and cannons.
--Cannons use four types of ammunition that have different visual affects…. Shrapnel- air bursts, Shell- ground bursts, Solid- ground hit, & Canister- multiple ground hits.
--No more regiment vs. regiment combat. Every single man in our regiments finds his own best target. He fires at and kills a specific man in an opposing regiment. That means that one regiment can fire at multiple opposing regiments. And since we kill specific men, you will see flanking fire wipe out one side of a regiment while leaving the other side intact.

[GoldenEagle]

Seems pretty cool. Is it just one battle though?

[scooter]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Seems pretty cool. Is it just one battle though?

It is just one battle - 1st Bull Run (Manassas). I think the idea was that once the engine was developed, other battles could be done as follow-ons. I know these guys have plans for other battles, but didn't want to try to do too much in the first game.

The most interesting thing about this game for me is the part about the player only controlling their regiment/division/corps. I've seen video of the gameplay, and it reminds me some of Sid Meier's Gettysburg. But in that game you had to try to keep all your men doing what they were supposed to - that could be difficult over a large battlefield. In this game you are only controlling a small portion of a larger force. You get all the frustration of your neighboring regiment routing during combat and other things that commanders actually had to deal with.

The other thing that is attractive is the sale price. On the pre-order sites they are showing it for $19.99. That's budget priced and not too much of a risk. I'd still like to see what the reviews say before I pick it up though.

[bamcgee]

anybody preorder this? Comes out tomorrow, I believe. I'd love to hear some impressions if anyone has a chance. Without a demo to try out, I'm hesitant to try a new game/series like this.

[scooter]

It looks like the 1/11 release date was just the release from manufacturing and it isn't in stores yet (probably next week).

If you are interested in how this game plays, there is an After Action Report being done over on the Wargamer forums by Lava (one of the beta testers). It's quite good, and he has lots of screenshots to illustrate his points.

http://www.wargamer.com/forums/tm.asp?m=109342

[Icy]

For what i have read at one spanish wargames forum, the game is really awesome and probably the best and more realist civil war tactic game (the wargamers there are amazed about it and have started a long thread). The dificulty is realy hard, maybe a game not for everybody. The plan to release more scenaries/battles and are already working on them. I'm thinking on purchasing it but it's so expensive in Europe, like $60 and i preffer games with a mix of strategic/tactic not only tactic.

[scooter]

Originally Posted by Icy

i preffer games with a mix of strategic/tactic not only tactic.

If you have an interest in the American Civil War, you might try the Civil War Battles: Campaign series by HPS Sims. It's kind of like the old Talansoft Battleground series (John Tiller is the designer of both series), but with a stategic level rolled into it. You can play against the computer but it's supposed to work best against another human opponent (play by email or hotseat). The stategic level explains the situation and the player chooses from a number of options (advance to here, reinforce there, etc.) and depending on the choices, the overall situation changes. Oh, and batte loses carry over from battle to battle. There are four games to choose from: Corinth, Ozark, Franklin, and Gettysburg.

If you are interested, check out their website: http://www.hpssims.com/

I'm still waiting for a little more feedback before I pick up Civil War - Bull Run though.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by scooter

If you have an interest in the American Civil War, you might try the Civil War Battles: Campaign series by HPS Sims. It's kind of like the old Talansoft Battleground series (John Tiller is the designer of both series), but with a stategic level rolled into it. You can play against the computer but it's supposed to work best against another human opponent (play by email or hotseat). The stategic level explains the situation and the player chooses from a number of options (advance to here, reinforce there, etc.) and depending on the choices, the overall situation changes. Oh, and batte loses carry over from battle to battle. There are four games to choose from: Corinth, Ozark, Franklin, and Gettysburg.

If you are interested, check out their website: http://www.hpssims.com/

I'm still waiting for a little more feedback before I pick up Civil War - Bull Run though.

Thank you. Being an old Tiller fan, I just read the review on Gettysburg. While the scenarios are mind-boggling, they still suffer from an inadequate AI - just like the Talonsoft games did. By the way, Rich Hamilton (mentioned in the wargamer review) is an old friend of mine. I used to play PBEM with him, as well as talk Civil War stuff.

I am not sure what I am looking for in a CW game nowadays. Even though I played a lot of grognard CW games, they wouldn't appeal to me much anymore. I do like to play a more strategic level game - like the old American Civil War game by Interactive Magic but my greatest gaming dream would be an ACW game using the Total War engine - but that ain't going to happen.

[scooter]

If you are interested in the Talonsoft games but don't like the AI, you might consider the American Civil War Game Club. It's an online club that has been going for years that plays the Talonsoft games via email (now I believe they also play the HPS games too). I was a member of the club for a while a few years ago, but I just didn't have the time to put toward it. I know Richard has been a part of the club for quite some time, so maybe he could tell you more about it. If you are interested, here's their link:

http://www.wargame.ch/wc/acw/ACWmainpage.htm

[Buccaneer]

scooter, that's where I met him and developed an online relationship with. While I was not a member of the club (a little too intimidating to me), he and I did play sone PBEM together.

Also, there was an old member here (whom I forgot the handle) that I played a few PBEM of Antietam with, but I hadn't seen him around.

[WSUCougar]

I just picked up Bull Run as an impulse purchase this weekend. Anyone have any comments on gameplay as yet?

[scooter]

I got this game last week finally. I haven't had a great deal of time to play it yet however. I played a couple of the tutorial scenarios though.

My biggest complaint so far is the camera is a little wonky. I can't seem to figure out how to control it properly - meanwhile, my men are getting killed! I'm sure it just takes a little time to get used to it though.

I have heard about a neat feature where you use the arrow keys on your keyboard to navigate through your chain of command (up and down for up and down, left and right to cycle through brigade, division commanders). This should help when you are an upper level commander and you want to know what is going on with your individual subordinates.

[moore4807]

had it about 3 weeks now - I did 2 scenarios so far and the results are favorable... the camera thing is weird, but the frustrating part for me is giving an order and the troops dont pay any attention to it. "Harumph! Hasten forward quickly there! I dont care if your tired, we got us a war to win!!!!"
I click on the unit not responding and guide them to where I need em, and by that time something else bad has happened to the other troops.

AND YES I read the tutorial,

the warnings are true

"DONT MICROMANAGE!!!"

lol,

[Buccaneer]

I remembered the name of the FOFC person that I played PBEM with: Carligula. He was good and haven't heard from him recently.

I'm keeping my eye on this game. The Gallery doesn't really show it but is there a way to zoom out, not to the map view, but to like a hot air balloon view of the 3D action?

[scooter]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I'm keeping my eye on this game. The Gallery doesn't really show it but is there a way to zoom out, not to the map view, but to like a hot air balloon view of the 3D action?

Scrolling the mouse wheel takes your view straight up or down (almost like going up or down in a hot air balloon). It only has 3 or 4 "notches" though - there's right behind your commander, a medium level and a high level. I find myself scrolling up and then having to tip the camera down to see what is in front of my troops.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by scooter

My biggest complaint so far is the camera is a little wonky. I can't seem to figure out how to control it properly - meanwhile, my men are getting killed! I'm sure it just takes a little time to get used to it though.

Agreed! Drove me nuts in the tutorial. The compass is also hard to read, compounding the problem.

And I take it you cannot pause the game?

Also, in the midst of the tutorial they tell you to move your brigade via road through the woods. Well, I did everything they said, and the two regiments proceeded to move in the woods adjacent to the road. D'OH!

Screams for a better manual (and not just a PDF).

It has potential though.

[scooter]

I believe the game "pauses" when you are reading orders or the tutorial info. The clock in the upper right doesn't seem to advance during these periods. As far as having a pause button, no, it doesn't have that. You also can't pause the game, give orders and start it up again. This was a design decision.

I think someone has done a replacement compass. If you browse in their forums over there, you can find someone that has set up a website to host some of that kind of stuff. The game is supposed to be very mod-friendly.

In the tutorial are you talking about the first long march (after the first small engagement) or after you've met up with your additional regiments and continued the march. When I played the tutorial, the first march was fine, the second one they went through the trees and I thought they would never get out again. (Using the +/- keys will speed up the game a little)

[scooter]

They have posted a patch for this game finally. They claim that this will be the only patch (unless all hell breaks loose). You can find it at their main website - the address for which is in the intial post in this thread.

[WSUCougar]

I have to say that after further play I am not very impressed with the AI. The battles tend to dissolve into random pockets of units with little regard for any command structure or obvious strategy. If armies behaved this way in the Civil War they would have been annihilated, and that just didn't happen.

[scooter]

I just noticed that MadMinute put out a demo for this game just a couple days ago (finally). If you have any interest, go give it a try. The link is in the first post of this thread.