Pass Rush Strength vs Tech.

hitmanwa · 02-05-2005, 01:02 AM

Any idea how these relate?

Say I have 1 guy with 90 PRT and 10 PRS and another that's the complete opposite, which will get better pressure on the QB?

What about blocking strength for linemen?

Thanks in advance,

fantastic flying froggies · 02-05-2005, 07:21 AM

One theory I've heard on the board is that strength is used to compare the offensive lineman to his defensive counterpart. The game matches blocking strength to pass rush strength. That defines whether the O-lineman can contain the D-lineman.

If the D-lineman goes thru the block, then his pass rush technique is used to determine whether he can succesfully put pressure on the QB...

I guess it makes sense to me. Now whether it's true or not, I have no idea...

I just know that generally speaking, I will rather get players with high blocking or pass rush strength, even their technical skills suck rather than the opposite (high skill lo strength)...

Hope it helps, and I'm eagerly waiting for other views on the matter.

KWhit · 02-05-2005, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantastic flying froggies

I just know that generally speaking, I will rather get players with high blocking or pass rush strength, even their technical skills suck rather than the opposite (high skill lo strength)...

I've always had the exact opposite opinion, but I have NO evidence to back that up.

fantastic flying froggies · 02-05-2005, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

I've always had the exact opposite opinion, but I have NO evidence to back that up.

Eh, that's funny...

At least, your HFL Steelers won't go after the same players as my Giants...

KWhit · 02-05-2005, 08:09 AM

True dat.

hitmanwa · 02-05-2005, 09:30 AM

*shoots self* That makes uber sense. Thanks for the reply guys.

BradAttitude · 02-05-2005, 12:54 PM

I go by the theory that strength is more important inside where its crowded. And technique is important outside where guys have more room to work. I apply this to both the offence and the defence.

I don't have any real evidence to prove that I'm right, but I also don't have any that proves my theory wrong either.

Leonidas · 02-05-2005, 12:58 PM

I usually go with the guy who has the best average between the two as my pass rush specialist. It helps me avoid thinking abou it too hard.

OldGiants · 02-07-2005, 04:24 PM

I've found drafting for strength in the low rounds or signing these guys as FAs produces the best shot at getting a sleeper who develops into a decent OL or DL that is cheap. For centers, add long snapping and there's a good chance the player will be at least a long-time backup who plays for the minimum.

As to which is better, I've always thought of strength as a bull rush that can get stopped cold by a strong OL, while technique is a stunt move of some kind. How that is programmed, I haven't a clue.

Having both skills is best, but costs more. I'd rather have one high skill than two low ones. Seems to produce more sacks, but the game is so random, there's no way to be sure.

Vinatieri for Prez · 02-08-2005, 03:26 AM

I always value technique over strength, but have nothing to back it up. It would be nice to know one day from Jim what some of this all means.

Vince · 02-12-2005, 03:01 PM

I've always thought that a blocker with high Blocking Strength would be good at blocking some one with high Pass Rushing Strength, while a blocker with high Pass Blocking would be good at blocking someone with high Pass Rush Technique. And I think someone else helped me arrive at that idea, but I don't remember who it was.

So, for instance, if you have two different DEs, one with 90/10 for Tech/Str, and one with the exact opposite, I'd want the 90/10 guy up against a Tackle who had 90/10 Blocking Strength/Pass Blocking, and I'd want the 10/90 guy against a Tackle who had 10/90 for Blocking Strength/Pass Blocking.

It's very rudimentary, but the theory is that someone with vastly superior technique could find a way around the really strong guys, while someone really strong could just bowl over the technical guys.

MIJB#19 · 02-13-2005, 06:06 AM

The problem with the theories above is in the vague-ness around how OL blocking strenght would work with the run defense. The DL and LB players clearly have pass rush strenght and not defensive plays strenght or something, while OL players have blocking strenght and not pass blocking strenght. On the other hand, the game files do explain pass blocking as being the technique part and the strenght part being to handle strong defenders.

The theories above point to:
OL run blocking - DL/LB run defense
OL pass blocking - DL/LB pas rush technique
OL blocking strenght - DL/LB pass rush strenght

But with the names of the skills, they just don't make sense to me.
Thoughts?

fantastic flying froggies · 02-13-2005, 11:29 AM

I think blocking strength affects both run and pass plays for O-linemen, and that's why it's not called pass blocking strength. I believe this from the play by play, where sometimes you'll have the line like ' player A flattened player B to create the hole'...i believe that's a Strength event.

Anyway, just MHO.

OldGiants · 02-13-2005, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantastic flying froggies

I think blocking strength affects both run and pass plays for O-linemen, and that's why it's not called pass blocking strength. I believe this from the play by play, where sometimes you'll have the line like ' player A flattened player B to create the hole'...i believe that's a Strength event.

Anyway, just MHO.

I agree. that's why an OL FA kid with little skill in run or pass blocking but who is strong will make some nice key run blocks with his strength vs. a highly skilled defender who lacks strength.

As I mentioned above, I like those kids because they are cheap, make a few plays and sometimes blossom into solid starters. Always worth it to pick them up.

Dutch · 02-13-2005, 11:26 PM

Interesting thread, I think I've learned something today, but I'm not sure what...yet.

Vinatieri for Prez · 02-16-2005, 01:27 AM

I like fff's "strength event" theory.

Edit: That's my 500th post. I am now officially Division I. Celebrate good times, come on, and celebrate.

MIJB#19 · 02-16-2005, 07:48 AM

off topic alert!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

I like fff's "strength event" theory.

Edit: That's my 500th post. I am now officially Division I. Celebrate good times, come on, and celebrate.

500 a milestone?
I spent 555 posts alone on my dynasty report about my ihof team in the past 13 months.

Vinatieri for Prez · 02-18-2005, 11:27 PM

Well, for us less geeky married guys, 500 takes a long time.

MIJB#19 · 02-19-2005, 12:20 PM

D'oh!

02-05-2005, 07:21 AM	#2
fantastic flying froggies Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sunny South of France	One theory I've heard on the board is that strength is used to compare the offensive lineman to his defensive counterpart. The game matches blocking strength to pass rush strength. That defines whether the O-lineman can contain the D-lineman. If the D-lineman goes thru the block, then his pass rush technique is used to determine whether he can succesfully put pressure on the QB... I guess it makes sense to me. Now whether it's true or not, I have no idea... I just know that generally speaking, I will rather get players with high blocking or pass rush strength, even their technical skills suck rather than the opposite (high skill lo strength)... Hope it helps, and I'm eagerly waiting for other views on the matter. __________________ Detroit Vampires (CFL) : Ve 're coming for your blood! Camargue Flamingos (WOOF): pretty in Pink

02-05-2005, 12:54 PM	#7
BradAttitude n00b Join Date: May 2004	I go by the theory that strength is more important inside where its crowded. And technique is important outside where guys have more room to work. I apply this to both the offence and the defence. I don't have any real evidence to prove that I'm right, but I also don't have any that proves my theory wrong either. __________________ 668 - Neighbour of the beast

02-05-2005, 12:58 PM	#8
Leonidas College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: East Anglia	I usually go with the guy who has the best average between the two as my pass rush specialist. It helps me avoid thinking abou it too hard. __________________ Molon labe

02-07-2005, 04:24 PM	#9
OldGiants College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Location, Location, Location	I've found drafting for strength in the low rounds or signing these guys as FAs produces the best shot at getting a sleeper who develops into a decent OL or DL that is cheap. For centers, add long snapping and there's a good chance the player will be at least a long-time backup who plays for the minimum. As to which is better, I've always thought of strength as a bull rush that can get stopped cold by a strong OL, while technique is a stunt move of some kind. How that is programmed, I haven't a clue. Having both skills is best, but costs more. I'd rather have one high skill than two low ones. Seems to produce more sacks, but the game is so random, there's no way to be sure. __________________ "The case of Great Britain is the most astonishing in this matter of inequality of rights in world soccer championships. The way they explained it to me as a child, God is one but He's three: Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I could never understand it. And I still don't understand why Great Britain is one but she's four....while [others] continue to be no more than one despite the diverse nationalities that make them up." Eduardo Galeano, SOCCER IN SUN AND SHADOW

02-12-2005, 03:01 PM	#11
Vince Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Willow Glen, CA	I've always thought that a blocker with high Blocking Strength would be good at blocking some one with high Pass Rushing Strength, while a blocker with high Pass Blocking would be good at blocking someone with high Pass Rush Technique. And I think someone else helped me arrive at that idea, but I don't remember who it was. So, for instance, if you have two different DEs, one with 90/10 for Tech/Str, and one with the exact opposite, I'd want the 90/10 guy up against a Tackle who had 90/10 Blocking Strength/Pass Blocking, and I'd want the 10/90 guy against a Tackle who had 10/90 for Blocking Strength/Pass Blocking. It's very rudimentary, but the theory is that someone with vastly superior technique could find a way around the really strong guys, while someone really strong could just bowl over the technical guys. __________________ Every time a Dodger scores a run, an angel has its wings ripped off by a demon, and is forced to tearfully beg the demon to cauterize the wounds.The demon will refuse, and the sobbing angel will lie in a puddle of angel blood and feathers for eternity, wondering why the Dodgers are allowed to score runs.That’s not me talking: that’s science. McCoveyChronicles.com.

02-05-2005, 08:09 AM	#5
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	True dat.

02-05-2005, 09:30 AM	#6
hitmanwa n00b Join Date: Jan 2005	shoots self That makes uber sense. Thanks for the reply guys.

02-08-2005, 03:26 AM	#10
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	I always value technique over strength, but have nothing to back it up. It would be nice to know one day from Jim what some of this all means.

02-13-2005, 06:06 AM	#12
MIJB#19 Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands	The problem with the theories above is in the vague-ness around how OL blocking strenght would work with the run defense. The DL and LB players clearly have pass rush strenght and not defensive plays strenght or something, while OL players have blocking strenght and not pass blocking strenght. On the other hand, the game files do explain pass blocking as being the technique part and the strenght part being to handle strong defenders. The theories above point to: OL run blocking - DL/LB run defense OL pass blocking - DL/LB pas rush technique OL blocking strenght - DL/LB pass rush strenght But with the names of the skills, they just don't make sense to me. Thoughts? __________________ * 2005 Golden Scribe winner for best FOF Dynasty about IHOF's Maassluis Merchantmen * Former GM of GEFL's Houston Oilers and WOOF's Curacao Cocktail

02-13-2005, 11:29 AM	#13
fantastic flying froggies Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sunny South of France	I think blocking strength affects both run and pass plays for O-linemen, and that's why it's not called pass blocking strength. I believe this from the play by play, where sometimes you'll have the line like ' player A flattened player B to create the hole'...i believe that's a Strength event. Anyway, just MHO. __________________ Detroit Vampires (CFL) : Ve 're coming for your blood! Camargue Flamingos (WOOF): pretty in Pink

02-13-2005, 11:26 PM	#15
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	Interesting thread, I think I've learned something today, but I'm not sure what...yet.

02-16-2005, 01:27 AM	#16
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	I like fff's "strength event" theory. Edit: That's my 500th post. I am now officially Division I. Celebrate good times, come on, and celebrate. Last edited by Vinatieri for Prez : 02-16-2005 at 01:28 AM.

02-18-2005, 11:27 PM	#18
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	Well, for us less geeky married guys, 500 takes a long time. Last edited by Vinatieri for Prez : 02-18-2005 at 11:27 PM.

02-19-2005, 12:20 PM	#19
MIJB#19 Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands	D'oh! __________________ * 2005 Golden Scribe winner for best FOF Dynasty about IHOF's Maassluis Merchantmen * Former GM of GEFL's Houston Oilers and WOOF's Curacao Cocktail

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