Mark McGwire

[primelord]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Basically, I was just saying that I think McGwire seems to get more benefit of the doubt than folks like Bonds and Sosa, and one theory would be it is because he is white. I suspect of lot of the "benefit" for McGwire comes from the fact that he generally seems more likable than Bonds, and to a lesser degree, he's also more likable than Sosa (even before the corking incident).

I do think the biggest reason people tend to accuse Bonds more quickly than McGwire is because he is perceived as a jerk. However his situation is also even more unusal than McGwire's. While McGwire did have a crazy jump in production later in his career he did seem to be building towards it more than Bonds was. A quick look at Bonds AB/HR numbers:

Year	Age	 AB/HR
 1986	21	  25.8
 1987	22	  22.0
 1988	23	  22.4
 1989	24	  30.5
 1990	25	  15.7
 1991	26	  20.4
 1992	27	  13.9
 1993	28	  11.7
 1994	29	  10.5
 1995	30	  15.3
 1996	31	  12.3
 1997	32	  13.3
 1998	33	  14.9
 1999	34	  10.4
 2000	35	  9.8
 2001	36	  6.5
 2002	37	  8.8
 2003	38	  8.6
 2004	39	  8.3

So Bonds clearly hit his peak at 35. And seems to keep getting better. 8.3 at 39???? Bonds jump was at an older age than McGwire and was more drastic than McGwire's. I think that also plays a very big part in why Bonds is accused more quickly than McGwire.

When you watched McGwire play over the years you believed it was possible he might break 62 some day. People never thought that about Bonds. He has established himself as an elite hitter, but one that topped out at about 45 HRs a year. FWIW I don;t think Griffey would have ever had the accusations Bonds did if he had kept prgressing towards the record like he was.

Also a quick note on AB/HR vs. PA/HR. I don't think those numbers are as useful with Bonds and McGwire (especially Bonds). Sure they both became more patient hitters as they got older. Most players do, but the real reason the numbers level off is no one was willing to give them a pitch hit. That's why the AB/HR number is so impressive for both of them. They rarely ever got much to hit, but when they did they destroyed it.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by dangarion

Between the 80s-00s MLB expanded from 26-30 teams. This in turn diluted the pitching talent in baseball. Along with this there is the whole "juiced ball theory" which I think goes with the fact that the MLB wanted to get people interested in baseball again after the strike.

These could all be factors that could contribute the the rise in his and the rest of MLBs rise in hr/ab.

That would be my response to Rick's post as well. It puts his 34- and 35-yr old years in context. By itself, I would tend to lean that he shot up with more powerful stuff but given the context, I don't know.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

He did it. His fellow bash brothers did it.

People have accused Giambi of taking steroids. He denied it, but later admitted it.

People have accused Bonds of taking steroids. He denied it, but turns out he took them (but just didn't know he was, yeah right)

People have accused McGwire of taking steroids. He denied it, . .. . . . (starting to see a pattern here)

Frankly, I've seen enough to know that I don't believe any players or MLB about it anymore.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by BigJohn&TheLions

This is why I like Sammy Sosa. He got his home runs the old-fashioned way... He corked his bat!

That's awesome

SI

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

He did it. His fellow bash brothers did it.

People have accused Giambi of taking steroids. He denied it, but later admitted it.

People have accused Bonds of taking steroids. He denied it, but turns out he took them (but just didn't know he was, yeah right)

People have accused McGwire of taking steroids. He denied it, . .. . . . (starting to see a pattern here)

Frankly, I've seen enough to know that I don't believe any players or MLB about it anymore.

This is why I like Sammy Sosa. He got his home runs the old-fashioned way... He corked his bat!