02-10-2003, 06:23 AM | #1 | ||
Retired
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fantasyland
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Motion Sickness in Games
Why do programmers make their games exclusively first-person or 3rd person over-the-shoulder? With the advent of 3D technology, why not give us a choice on camera angles - especially RPGs?
I suffer from computer motion sickness. Riding in a car, train, plane, etc. never bothers me. But put me in front of a PC with a camera that bounces and it's migrane time. It can be a first-person shooter, 3rd person perspective or even a game with a funky camera like Tony Hawk 2 or Motocross Madness. In fact, mentioning Motocross Madness just brings on waves of nausea given that I tried so hard to play it. Why do programmers limit their market? Give me an option! I would have loved to play Morrowind, but I couldn't take the camera. Ditto Wizardry 8 and a large number of other games. I like my 3rd person isometric (Diablo) perspective. Who else suffers from this and has anyone found a "cure"? |
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02-10-2003, 08:03 AM | #2 |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sweden
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I used to play Doom, Doom II and Quake all the time and never suffer from motion sickness, but now I'm getting it all the time. I recently tried my hand at Serious Sam 2 but I had to stop since my head was spinning. Took me about 10 minutes to get rid of the nausea. It must be old age I guess.
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02-10-2003, 08:22 AM | #3 |
Lethargic Hooligan
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing
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Blackadar - you know you can zoom out in Morrowind? Tab key I think.
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02-10-2003, 10:13 AM | #4 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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I have the same problem. No solution, though.
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02-10-2003, 10:17 AM | #5 |
Strategy Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Carolina
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Goldeneye would make me really sick after over an hour of play. I'd need to lie down for hours.
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02-10-2003, 10:22 AM | #6 |
Lethargic Hooligan
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing
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For those with the game-vertigo try looking off a little. Center you view to one side of the screen, perhaps even all the way out to the plastic border of your monitor.
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donkey, donkey, walk a little faster |
02-10-2003, 10:42 AM | #7 |
Mascot
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Not from me, picked up off google. I don't experience motion sickness but maybe the suggestions can help one of you guys.
--------------------------- Having done some research on this subject, I can give a few ideas to help alleviate symptoms. Keep in mind that some people react better than others to these adjustments. 1) If you are sensitive to motion sickness when playing games you can often build up a tolerance. The key is to take breaks BEFORE you start feeling nauseous. This works best in games with a predicable flow like flight sims and racing games, Quake/Descent type games with the more unpredictable jumping and turning tend to be much harder to adapt too. 2) DO NOT play with the light off. It may seem cool, but without points of reference your body may think its really moving which confuses the inner ear and brain, and when they are confused, you feel sick. 3) Along the same lines try and maximize your framerate. There are two reasons for this. First a jerky framerate in itself can cause nausea, and secondly input delay can be a huge contributing factor and low framerates typically coincide with input delay(input delay is when you push the stick/button but it takes a second for the on screen action to reflect the move). This in one of the reasons many people can play 1st person games, but get sick very quickly watching them. You will get sick much more quickly if you cannot anticipate what the screen is going to do. 4) Avoid playing when you are tired. 5) Avoid/limit smoking. Many people tend to chain smoke when playing games, and doing so can make you dizzy even when your not playing games. 6) Ginger the wonder spice. Drinking ginger ale can help, as can eating anything high in ginger content. Ginger has a natural anti-sickness properties. 7) As a last resort you may want to try and use normal over the counter motion sickness pills. |
02-10-2003, 02:13 PM | #8 |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkley, MI: The Hotbed of FOFC!
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The only game that ever did this to me was NCAA Basketball on the Super Nintendo. You know, the one with the court that seemed to spin around constantly? I don't know why this one game affected me so bad, but just thinking about it now makes me feel queasy. Ugh.
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02-10-2003, 02:29 PM | #9 |
H.S. Freshman Team
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bloomington, IN
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The Twisted Metal series does it for me.
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02-10-2003, 04:29 PM | #10 |
High School JV
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: outside of Atlanta, GA
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I've got the same problem. First-person shooting games (like 1942 and MOH) get to me quickly. I just cant play them for more than about 5 minutes...and if I do, I have to spend the rest of the afternoon on the couch! It really takes several hours for the symptoms to go away.
I'm going to try the ginger idea, and now I'm recalling I got a wrist-band to combat seasickness, but never used it. I'm gonna find that and see if it helps.
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02-10-2003, 05:11 PM | #11 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Satellite of Love
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I would think first-person shooters would be nearly impossible to play when not in 1st person...
I used to get motion sickness too. Wolfenstein 3D was my first FPS and I played the hell out of it, easily over 200 hours. Doom, Doom II and Duke Nukem 3D, easily over 100 hours each. Then I noticed I'd get sick. Really bad, too. So I had to stop. Now that they have mouse-look, my motion sickness has disappeared. Last edited by sabotai : 02-10-2003 at 05:11 PM. |
02-10-2003, 07:00 PM | #12 |
High School JV
Join Date: Oct 2000
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A 1st person shooter buddy of mine says sitting farther away from the monitor allowed him to play those games after years of gradual motion sickness with Doom & Doom 2. I guess your peripheral vision is steadied since you can see more of the non moving room around you. I have the same problem & will probably try this tip out as soon as I get a faster PC & larger monitor.
Last edited by Buddy Grant : 02-10-2003 at 07:00 PM. |
02-10-2003, 08:36 PM | #13 |
Retired
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fantasyland
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I've tried every one of those suggestions to no avail. I just get ill. You can't adjust Morrowind enough to get rid of the motion sickness. What I don't understand is with all these 3D games, why don't developers give us camera options. Hey, maybe they think it takes away from the game, but if the gameplay is good, then the isometric view is plenty fine for me.
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02-10-2005, 02:07 PM | #14 |
H.S. Freshman Team
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Central PA
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Half-Life 2 makes me motion sick. I can play Counter Strike 2 without trouble, however. Odd seeing as the same game engine is used.
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02-10-2005, 02:10 PM | #15 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Descent! That is the only game that could ever make me come close to vomiting. I dont know how anyone could play that for more than minute.
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02-10-2005, 02:15 PM | #16 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Jul 2001
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nice bump.
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02-10-2005, 02:30 PM | #17 | |
H.S. Freshman Team
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Central PA
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Quote:
Was wondering how long it'd take someone to notice. The topic is relevant, however, I was just wondering earlier this week if others suffered from motion sickness from games.
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02-10-2005, 02:32 PM | #18 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New Jersey
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I never suffered with motion sickness from games until about 2 years ago. I tried playing some shooter game on my new computer, and I became very nauseous. Ever since then, most 1st person shooters make me sick. Most other games I'm ok with. It's odd how the body and brain change with age. I know that I could play 1st person shooters for hours even 3 or 4 years ago with no problem.
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02-10-2005, 02:35 PM | #19 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
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02-10-2005, 03:11 PM | #20 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Jul 2003
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The Japanese as a group suffer from motion sickness in games much more than Westerners. I'm assured by industry types that FPS games sell really badly over there largly due to this peculiarity. Third person perscpective apparently presents fewer problems.
As to why developers choose first and third person perspectives? Part of it is market demands. The market DEMANDS first person perspectives. As far as accuracy for targeting and immediacy of access its hard to beat 1st person. Another fundimental reason is that it removes much of the difficulties associated with camera work and associated control problems. IE.. assume a fixed camera. Not only does the developer have to make sure the camera can show all relevant action (not an easy feat by any means) but when the player leaves the screen, should the camera stay in the same position relative to the player? If the camera stays in the same position relatively, it means the design of the world has to favour this angle for presenting information to the user. If the camera is placed independantly per screen, then what happens if the player is pressing 'up' and leaves the screen only to come in FROM the top of the next screen (because the camera is in a different position relatively). Does the player start moving up? (and thus back to the first screen) etc... whole bunch of design issues. Its simpler to put the camera behind the player and let it track him/her. Also people like it (those who aren't motion sickness) and you can't please both fixed and roaming camera fans without major work (like designing the world to favour certain axes). A third person camera that tracks the avatar is a big part of what seperates tomb raider from monkey island.. |
02-10-2005, 03:40 PM | #21 |
High School JV
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kelowna, BC, Canada
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Funny, contrary to what most people here seem to be experiencing, I'm having fewer problems with it as I get older. I remember making myself sick almost to the point of throwing up with the original Doom, and having a colossal headache for a couple of days afterwards. That put me off FPS's for years. But I was able to tolerate really extended periods playing Morrowind (the only thing that gets me is spiral staircases), and I've been OK with the occasional FPS lately, too. Either I've adapted to them, or better graphics and more interactivity in the gameworlds has helped fix the problem for me.
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02-10-2005, 03:44 PM | #22 |
Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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I think this led to the death of adventure games. Just a genre where the first-person vantage point sounds like it would make sense, but became very annoying in that you kept having to turn to view a room from a million different angles to find something.
So, they made the games less efficient, they turned off the large segment who's motion sick, and they spent a lot in development on doodads that had nothing to do with the game itself. Adventure games used to be top sellers, and we've lost them almost entirely due to the incompetence of the people running the top publishing houses. Of course, that means small independents can step in and fill the genre (sound familiar?). I just hope the reviewers don't trash those games because they don't have fancy modern interfaces with the latest in high-res clip art. |
02-10-2005, 03:45 PM | #23 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Black Hole
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I have no problem playing them myself, but if I'm watching someone, and I'm not in control, it's definitely harder to maintain focus on objects. If I know which way I'm going, I have no problem.
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02-10-2005, 03:46 PM | #24 |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sweden
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I recently played Halo on a friend's XBox, and he has a big 32" TV which I sat about 4-5 feet from, with no ill effects from motion sickness at all. It must be because that less of the screen was filling up my field of vision.
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02-10-2005, 03:52 PM | #25 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
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there a solution to motion sickness in games.
Wear one eye patch when you play. It helps a lot. |
02-10-2005, 03:52 PM | #26 | |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkley, MI: The Hotbed of FOFC!
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Quote:
I think this will become more and more common unfortunately, especially amongst younger reviewers who aren't as familiar with games in the pre-3D genre. Also, of course, depending on what the audience they are writing for is. |
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02-10-2005, 04:00 PM | #27 |
Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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Unfortunately, like with our newspapers, the American gaming industry is focused squarely at about a sixth-grade level of understanding.
Newspapers continue to hemorrhage subscribers as those who seek information turn to the net in frustration. And adults and intelligent kids who like to play games have to look very hard to find the good ones, because the big publishers aren't very interested in their business. It's absurd that consoles rule the gaming roost these days, with the hard drive and memory capacity of today's PCs. |
02-10-2005, 04:16 PM | #28 | |
Banned
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Location: Placerville, CA
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You're posting an awful lot these last few days. Why don't you get back to TCY2, and start working on that 3D interface we're all pestering you for? |
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02-10-2005, 04:18 PM | #29 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hometown of Canada
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Quote:
Really?? Do you wear an eye patch when you play? |
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02-10-2005, 04:26 PM | #30 | |
Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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Yeah, something like six posts this week. I'm on fire. Wheee. D'ya really need to threadjack every other item I post in with the same comment? Funny once, Manny. Funny once. |
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02-10-2005, 04:31 PM | #31 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Lighten up, Francis. Anyhow, I've NEVER seriously suggested any flashy interface for FOF/TCY... maybe you have me confused with some other pain in the ass. I prefer the games like they are - straighforward and functional, without all that other mess. |
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02-10-2005, 04:37 PM | #32 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Agreed 100%. The more and more I look at the market, the more and more I just start thinking that maybe we should just market everything towards morons. I tend towards Nintendo because even their latest "kiddie" outing has more innovation than the latest carbon copy of a previous game put out by EA. But I digress.. There's only been one game that ever caused me any trouble while playing and that was Wolfenstein 3-D. With those bright colors on old Radiation Master Nine Million monitors from years ago, I would get a headache playing more than an hour or so. These days, tho, I can sit in front of a computer for 8+ hours straight and have no problems whatsoever and I think it comes down to two really stupid things that probably will make people laugh at how silly they are: * One is to take bathroom and drink breaks regularly instead of getting too caught up in a game and only getting up after every 3 hours or so when your bladder is about to explode and your mouth parched. You do it every half hour or hour or whatever- and each time you do, your eyes get refocused on looking at the real world instead of straining at a screen. * The second is keeping the light on and my resolution reasonable on my computer. In the dorms, I always saw people playing with lights out and 1600x1200 resolution on 17" monitors. You're just asking to go blind. Lights out is just awful for your eyes doing anything and staring at a lit tv or monitor just makes it worse. At night, when I don't want my overhead light on, I still have a little 40 or 60 watt lamp on that gives some backlight to the room so the contrast isn't nearly as bad. Also, I've still got the aforementioned Gateway Radiation Master Nine Million (ie vintage 1997 Gateway 17" monitor) and run it at 1024x768- even with a really old monitor, I have no problems with eyestrain and 1024x768 isn't an unreasonably small resolution. If I had a 19" or even 21", I'd certainly go for more screen real estate but you've gotta know your limitations. SI
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02-10-2005, 04:48 PM | #33 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Quote:
YES, when i play some shooters games Like Quake 3, Unreal, Half-life, etc. i use to get dizzy and sick if i play for a long time.. so i try an eye patch, cover one eye and it help a lot. but lately just been more into Sports sim games like FOF, TPB 2005 and OOTP 6. at least you dont need no eye patch for those |
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02-10-2005, 06:57 PM | #34 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Black Hole
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Quote:
Do you use these as well? |
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02-10-2005, 07:07 PM | #35 |
Banned
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Location: Placerville, CA
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HARRRRRRR!
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