Another reason to hate Duke

[MrBug708]

Can anyone get so arrogant and self-absorbed?

http://www.chronicle.duke.edu/vnews/.../41ff80a1b5dee

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Duke is a pretty appealing place. We boast a first-class faculty, a brilliant student body and stirring architecture. We are generous to the community of Durham, house the Talent Identification Program and other youth development activities and serve as a bastion of sanity in the seedy world of college athletics. There is a lot to like.

And yet, it seems, Duke is far from liked outside its extended community?and by that I mean the campus, pockets of New York and New Jersey and a few other outposts east of the Mississippi. For the rest of the country, resentment is the norm. At best, we amuse and titillate the world with our baby oil wrestling; at worst, we are thoroughly hated.

There are two central causes for this: one simple, one complex. You?ve probably already guessed the simple one, which is that Duke men?s basketball teams have wreaked havoc over the rest of the field for nearly two decades. This has set up a ?Yankees complex? whereby fans of weaker teams try to check the dominant team and return to a more multi-polar league. You can?t fault Coach K(aiser?) for his teams? record of excellence; the resentment in this case is jealousy and nothing more.

But other schools have been equally if not more dominant in major sports, from Florida State and Nebraska in football to Kentucky and Arizona in basketball, and these universities are seldom despised except by their immediate rivals. So athletic prowess is only part of the story.

The other, complex cause for America?s Duke disdain is much more interesting and probably more important. There is a perception out there?whether consciously held or just ?felt??that Duke tries to have it both ways on a number of salient issues and does not play by the unwritten rules that keep universities in check. By eschewing the rules, Duke and its most visible components?students, teams and projects?are seen as arrogant. Furthermore, perceiving that Duke lacks any systemic check to its ambition, outsiders take it upon themselves to hate Duke as a subconscious external check.

That may have blown your mind, so here is a bit of explanation about how Duke tries to have it both ways. It starts with the balance between athletics and academics, which is supposed to be a trade-off. Harvard gets the Nobel prizes, FSU gets the championships and Joe Q. Floridian gets to take solace in the fact that his Seminoles could whoop those Harvard nerds any day.

Duke doesn?t play by those rules. We have a perennial top-five team in both basketball and the classroom, and the failures of our football team are a meager consolation to the apoplectic Mr. Floridian. Stanford is the only other school that so blatantly skirts the athletic/academic trade-off, but its championships are in marginal sports and its success in the big-ticket sports has been uneven.

There are other areas where Duke tries to have it both ways, less obvious nationwide but keenly perceived within North Carolina. We are a young university but feign grand tradition. We are Southern when it suits us but never allow it to define us?and as any Southerner knows, you either have it always or not at all. We make our big imprint right down the road from North Carolina?s most beloved university, constantly stealing its thunder. We make undeniable contributions to the community, but close ourselves off on East Campus with a wall and on West Campus with labyrinthine roads. We can say we are open and accessible and be right; we can say we are elite and be right.

We don?t pause for afternoon tea. We don?t stop and enjoy the wildlife. Duke is a barreling powerhouse hell-bent on excellence, rules and social graces be damned. And just like that uncompromising girl who gets perfect grades and is beautiful and parties on the weekend and leads with integrity, Duke rubs people the wrong way because it makes their almae mater pale in comparison.

There is nothing we can do to make ourselves more popular short of lightening up. External resentment is, perhaps, the inevitable price of unharnessed ambition and never accepting the mediocre. As long as we can make new rules and challenge the status quo, we will find ourselves in the forefront of higher education, picking up new enemies for all the right reasons.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Can anyone get so arrogant and self-absorbed?

I would say that anyone who goes to a good school and writes for some crappy college paper can get that arrogant and self-absorbed.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Radii

I would say that anyone who goes to a good school and writes for some crappy college paper can get that arrogant and self-absorbed.

Duke lover

[gstelmack]

I started hating Duke the moment Christian Laetner foot-stomped that Kentucky player in the National Championship and got away with it scott-free, with Coach K completely blowing off the incident. I've had no respect for Duke since.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Duke lover

Ouch No insults please!

Can't wait to see if my Tar Heels can challenge duke in tonight's sim.

Of course,much more importantly, Wake will hopefully crush them tonight.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I fucking hate Duke.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I fucking hate Duke.
__________________
"Anger and intolerance are the twin enemies of correct understanding."
Mahatma Gandhi

Amusing juxtaposition.

[Crapshoot]

He isnt exactly off base. As opposed to the FSU's of the world, Duke is a damn good example.

[lurker]

That's like saying: as opposed to the "Dude, Where's My Car?"s of the world, "Bridget Jones" is a great movie.

[WSUCougar]

You Duke-haters are just jealous.

[Crapshoot]

Okay: as opposed to the FSU/Miami/Oklahoma/Nebraska/Florida and other sports factories of the US, Duke is a hell of a lot better. Like it or not .

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

You Duke-haters are just jealous.

You raise a good point, Coug. This little weasel basically says "People hate Duke for two reasons: one, they are jealous of our success as a sports team; two, they are jealous that we have a good sports team and good academics." So, in some, people hate Duke because they are jealous. That's one reason. Unless I am missing some more nuanced point the little turd is trying to make.

There are plenty of schools that have strong academic programs and strong athletics. Look at, oh, I don't know... Michigan for a example! Top ten law school. Top five business and medical schools. And they have strong athletic programs.

Bah. Duke.

I once meant this girl who went to Ohio State for undergrad and Duke from law school. Horrible combination. Simply horrible...

[Scarecrow]

What's wrong with Duke?


Rushes to the DCM to tell Duke people here hate him....

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Okay: as opposed to the FSU/Miami/Oklahoma/Nebraska/Florida and other sports factories of the US, Duke is a hell of a lot better. Like it or not .

True. But what I think Lurker was getting at is that the article basically divides colleges into two worlds: Ivy League Schools with no real sports programs (Hardvard) and Big Time Sports programs with questionable academic reputations (Florida State).

There are plenty of schools that have sound academic programs and quality sports programs. What is Duke good in despite mens basketball and possibly women's soccer? (I only think they are good at women's soccer because Mia Hamm went there. I have no idea if they are any good or not.)

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

True. But what I think Lurker was getting at is that the article basically divides colleges into two worlds: Ivy League Schools with no real sports programs (Hardvard) and Big Time Sports programs with questionable academic reputations (Florida State).

There are plenty of schools that have sound academic programs and quality sports programs. What is Duke good in despite mens basketball and possibly women's soccer? (I only think they are good at women's soccer because Mia Hamm went there. I have no idea if they are any good or not.)

Michigan is an example, which is why I didnt cite it, but its the exception rather than the rule. Duke is one of the best academic programs in the nation, and generally better than Michigan, without the advantages of being a state university. I would venture to say that when you think college basketball, you first think Duke (with whatever connatations there may be). Hell, I went to CMU, which is an example of a damn good school, with all the sporting enthusiasm of valium- the more people on the field bit applied, often.

[lurker]

Yeah, my fellow Wolverine got it right. I was just saying that you can't really say one school is the pinnacle of greatness just because it's good when comparing it to one that's not that great (no offense meant to FSU).

[JonInMiddleGA]

I've never set foot on the Duke campus, I'm not sure if I've ever known anyone personally who went to Duke & if I did, I didn't know them well. I spent a lot of my childhood as a fan-from-a-distance of Dean Smith & UNC ... and I thought the writer, although a bit pretentious in word choice at times, did a pretty good job of identifying why there are so many Duke-haters in the rest of the world.

[terpkristin]

Wait, I needed a REASON to hate Duke?!?!

~tk

[Radii]

Oh dear god. Mia Hamm went to UNC, not Duke. As did lots of the Womens National team. I am not going to try to brag bout any sport but basketball here, but Mia went to UNC!

And Duke's campus is absolutely beautiful.

And I am a diehard UNC fan. I hate Duke. But I can still say some nice things about them every once in awhile. Sometimes.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Radii

Oh dear god. Mia Hamm went to UNC, not Duke. As did lots of the Womens National team. I am not going to try to brag bout any sport but basketball here, but Mia went to UNC!

And Duke's campus is absolutely beautiful.

And I am a diehard UNC fan. I hate Duke. But I can still say some nice things about them every once in awhile. Sometimes.

Oops. Sorry about. Sorry UNC fans. Sorry Mia Hamm. I had no idea. I get Duke and UNC confused a lot. Shameful, I know, but they are both in Carolina, both have blue uniforms, both are really good in basketball... Since I don't follow college hoops much at all, I get confused.

[ShaefIllini]

I hear Duke has a great Sociology program...

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I started hating Duke the moment Christian Laetner foot-stomped that Kentucky player in the National Championship and got away with it scott-free, with Coach K completely blowing off the incident. I've had no respect for Duke since.

Not that it matters, but that was East Regional Final, not the Championship.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

You Duke-haters are just jealous.

That's how I see it.

[TargetPractice6]

That's it. As a Kentucky fan, I'm jealous of Duke and their 3 national titles. Damn, I wish we could have a top notch program like them.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Okay: as opposed to the FSU/Miami/Oklahoma/Nebraska/Florida and other sports factories of the US, Duke is a hell of a lot better. Like it or not .

Well, Duke does compromise it's academics when it comes to men's basketball-the average SAT score for Duke players is reportedly around 960, several hundred points below the regular student body average...

[kcchief19]

I have no opionion of Duke as a university one way or another, but I flat out don't understand any dislike of Duke's basketball team. Jealousy is the only logical explanation. They win and they win the right way. Isn't that what we all say we want? Shouldn't that be celebrated and not denigrated?

I came along at a perfect time. I was just starting to get into following college basketball as a kid when Coach K started at Duke. Having no allegiance to any Division I team at the time, I started following Duke from the beginning and I'm glad on did. It's nice to be able to root for a team that doesn't shame you.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

They win and they win the right way.

I don't hate Duke, but I don't think they should be put on a pedestal either. As I mentioned earlier, the academic profile of the Duke basketball team bears little resemblance to that of the regular student body. Also, a few players had run-ins off the court over the years. Not too many, but a few...

hxxp://slate.msn.com/id/101920/

This doesn't make Duke too much different from any other winning program. Coach K has done a great job with the program and rightfully should be commended for winning, but let's not delude ourselves into believing that the program is immune to the compromises other programs make in order to win. Duke is no better or no worse than many other winning programs in that department...

[Chief Rum]

I often find I like the players at Duke. I think Coach K is a terrific coach and a good guy.

But I hate the fans because of the attitude I see so often with the ones I run into (both online and in real life).

And I hate that Duke has its own mega-booster who manages to mention them in every single bit he does on ESPN, and fifty times if he's announcing a game--even when its a Pac-10 game.

That's why I hate Duke. Their fans are the same as Notre Dame fans were when they were winning--absolutely insufferable (once again, the ones I run into, but I gotta tell ya, it's a high percentage).

CR

[Easy Mac]

No offense, but Vitale is far more in love with UNC than Duke. 3 of his top 5 players at the midway point were from UNC, and I think there was another on his 2nd team.

Personally, I try to say as little about Duke unless I'm bitching about them (see last year and their inability to end games).

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

No offense, but Vitale is far more in love with UNC than Duke. 3 of his top 5 players at the midway point were from UNC, and I think there was another on his 2nd team.

Personally, I try to say as little about Duke unless I'm bitching about them (see last year and their inability to end games).

One half season of UNC propping doesn't make up for 20 years of senseless Duke-propping (especially when he is still doing ti about Duke when he isn't pushing UNC),

[sterlingice]

Didn't really want to start a new thread but ran across something new (well, not entirely new- a couple of weeks old).

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/column...ndy&id=1966924

Demand for Devils helps schedule
By Andy Katz
ESPN.com
Duke played its first true road game Thursday night, beating a depleted NC State in Raleigh. The Blue Devils play at surprising Miami next Wednesday and then at struggling Florida State on Jan. 22.

So, when exactly does Duke play at one of the potential favorites for the ACC title? Not until Duke goes to Wake Forest on Feb. 2. Duke also visits Maryland on Feb. 12, Georgia Tech on Feb. 23 and will close the season at North Carolina on March 6.

Clearly, the Blue Devils caught a break with their ACC schedule. Duke will almost certainly have forward Shavlik Randolph back (he could be on the court against the Hurricanes next week after battling mononucleosis) and reserve Reggie Love (broken foot).

Of course, Maryland could right itself by then and Georgia Tech should have B.J. Elder (hamstring) on the court when Duke is town. But is the early-season schedule luck? Is it just a coincidence that Duke opened against Clemson the last four seasons?

No.

The reality for the rest of the ACC is that Duke plays the best teams in the ACC on the road, later in the ACC season, because that's when the ACC television partners want the high-profile, highly-anticipated, and usually highest-rated games.

"Duke is our highest rated television team," said Fred Barakat, who handles the television schedules for the ACC.

So, while Maryland went to North Carolina and Wake Forest last week and Wake Forest plays North Carolina on Saturday in Winston-Salem after the Tar Heels hosted Georgia Tech, the rest of the league can stop wondering why they're beating each other up while Duke gets its feet wet.

Barakat said there is a selection process among the television partners and that the top games, like Duke-North Carolina, go first. Every one of Duke's ACC games is part of the national ACC package (ESPN, ABC, CBS, Fox). Accordingly, the selection process continues from the best to least-desired matchups -- and one of the last games selected for Duke is Clemson.

"Duke-Clemson hasn't been part of the early selection process and that's why it has been the first game [each season]," Barakat said. FSN picked up the Duke-Clemson game on Jan. 2.

Barakat said one season's schedule has nothing to do with the next and that Duke would probably not play Clemson to start next season (Virginia Tech, maybe?). But that doesn't ease the pain for Clemson coach Oliver Purnell. He raised his concern about playing Duke to open his first two ACC seasons at the league meetings last spring, drawing a chuckle from those in attendance.

But Purnell isn't letting this issue die.

"I raised it at the meetings and I raised it with my athletic director the other day," Purnell said. "I understand the importance of the ratings but at the same time there needs to be some equitable competitiveness as well."

Purnell said Clemson shouldn't open with Duke four years running.

"It's a tough opener," Purnell said of the 62-54 loss to Duke at Cameron. What's worse, in the new unbalanced schedule this season, Duke doesn't go to Clemson.

"Let's face it, we don't want to open with the best team in the league every year," Purnell said. "That's the bottom line. I want my AD to take this to the AD level and talk about it and consider moving it around."

Barakat defends the scheduling process by saying that once the television games are selected, then he inputs the other games and the computer spits out the results. He positions non-conference games in the schedule and puts in the bye weeks.

Duke had a bye week last Saturday and that's why the Blue Devils played Temple in a non-conference game. The Clemson game was moved from the first Wednesday of the ACC season to Sunday for Fox and that opened up a Wednesday date on Jan. 5 for Duke to play host to Princeton. Duke's next bye date is on Feb. 26 when they play at St. John's.

"Every team in our league gets two byes and they can play a made-for-TV game or a non-conference game not on television during those bye weeks," Barakat said. "Everyone has that, not just Duke."

Duke's first one just fell right for the Blue Devils to squeeze in two non-conference games at the start of the ACC season.

Barakat will get an earful on this subject with the 12-team ACC, too, as he attempts to make the schedule somewhat equitable once Boston College joins the league in the fall. It will be difficult, though, to change the mentality that Duke and North Carolina get the first choice of dates.

Is it true? When it comes to those two games, the answer is yes -- because television dictates the schedule.

"We're going to protect the integrity of January and February and March," Barakat said of having the best matchups later in the ACC season."I'm sure Fox would rather have better matchups in December, but I can't. We have so many TV partners that it's hard to make this work because we have to satisfy Fox, ESPN, ESPN2, ABC, CBS and Raycom, and then regional cable."

That still doesn't appease Maryland's Gary Williams, fresh off pastings at North Carolina and Wake Forest.

"I'm glad Fred said that because I've been in the league for 16 years and I know they do that," Williams said of giving the Duke-UNC games preferred treatment. "The year after we won the national title, Duke-Carolina was still the ultimate game. It's always the last ACC game. It makes every other team in the league look secondary. That's what I object to. Whoever is good should get the publicity.

"If we're not good this year then that's fine, but there's nobody better than Wake Forest, Georgia Tech and North Carolina this year. They're the top three."

Williams said the "big games" should rotate every year -- especially the placement of the games. Under this rationale, Saturday's Wake Forest-North Carolina game should be the last game of the ACC season, since it's their only meeting of the season.

"The league has been set up for Carolina and Duke since that became the featured game," Williams said. "All the schedules are off of those two games and set up for television. CBS, ABC, ESPN pick the games for ratings and what's left goes to Fox. We've been the third team picked and that's why we play every Sunday night. We play one Saturday (ACC) home game in January and February and that's not fair."

And who is it against?

"Duke," Williams said.

SI

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I've never set foot on the Duke campus, I'm not sure if I've ever known anyone personally who went to Duke & if I did, I didn't know them well. I spent a lot of my childhood as a fan-from-a-distance of Dean Smith & UNC ... and I thought the writer, although a bit pretentious in word choice at times, did a pretty good job of identifying why there are so many Duke-haters in the rest of the world.

I agree. I went to grad school at UNC and always have respected what Duke has done academically and student-atheletically. Can't say that about any other major sports universities.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I agree. I went to grad school at UNC and always have respected what Duke has done academically and student-atheletically. Can't say that about any other major sports universities.

Come on now...

What about Norte Dame back in the day?
Stanford?
Virginia?
Michigan?

There are a number of "major sports universities" with incredibly solid, well-respected academic programs.