US Holding and Interrogating Children?

JPhillips · 03-10-2003, 07:45 PM

I saw this in the Washington Times.

Two young sons of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the suspected mastermind of the September 11 attacks, are being held by the CIA to force their father to talk, interrogators said yesterday.
Yousef al-Khalid, 9, and his brother, Abed al-Khalid, 7, were taken into custody in Pakistan in September when intelligence officers raided an apartment in Karachi where their father had been hiding.
He fled just hours before the raid, but his two young sons, along with another senior al Qaeda member, were found cowering behind a clothes closet in the apartment.
The boys have been held by the Pakistani authorities, but this weekend they were flown to America, where they will be questioned about their father.
CIA interrogators confirmed last night that the boys were staying at a secret address where they were being encouraged to talk about their father's activities.
"We are handling them with kid gloves. After all, they are only little children," said one official, "but we need to know as much about their father's recent activities as possible. We have child psychologists on hand at all times, and they are given the best of care."

What the hell are we doing? Is there any justification for kidnapping young children regardless of who their father is? While this is almost certainly legal, it is one of the most morally bankrupt policies I have seen from the CIA.

We can't fight this war on the level of those who are our enemies. What kind of victory is it when we become those we are fighting? I'm all for vigilantly prosecuting the war on terror, but kidnapping children is way past what we should be doing. Here's hoping Jesus didn't notice.

Fonzie · 03-10-2003, 08:28 PM

I suppose I can understand the CIA's position and purpose, but I find this action to be incredibly offensive. Of course, I'd probably feel that way about most of what the CIA does, were I ever to find that out.

I'm also all in favor of prosecuting the war on terror. I'm sure that's what the CIA is trying to do, and they may well learn some minimal information from the boys. I suspect, however, that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed failed to tell his young children of any top secret al Qaeda plans, and probably never even told them such basic information as when or where or with whom he was meeting. Perhaps I'm wrong, maybe he was stupid enough to keep his kids around for his planning meetings or let a few things slip that he shouldn't have. But even if that's the case the CIA had best talk to the child psychologists they've got working with those boys about the research on information gleaned from child interrogations and child testimony: it has been found to be incredibly unreliable, as the kids tend to tell the adults what the kids think the adults want to hear regardless of the truth. Will this situation be different? Maybe, maybe not.

The CIA'd best be careful - this is a potentially nasty situation that could (further) undermine the US's credibility in the eyes of a world that is already incredibly skeptical of our actions of late.

Oh right, I forgot, our president doesn't give a hoot about what the world thinks about anything. Never mind that last bit of advice, then.

AgPete · 03-10-2003, 08:55 PM

Brilliant detective work by our government. I'm sure Khalid Shaikh Mohammed spends every night laying out his terroist plans with his seven year old and asking him for advice on explosives and strategic American targets.

No wonder we can't find Bin Laden.

I bet those kids though are already experts on Anti-American propaganda.

They would probably make great case studies for how these people are trained to hate from day one.

ice4277 · 03-10-2003, 09:00 PM

First off, they weren't "kidnapped". I'm ok with this as long as they don't do anything to harm them. Just ask them some questions and send them back.

Qwikshot · 03-10-2003, 09:07 PM

They could point out in pictures if daddy was with anyone else though...what's not wrong with this, their father helped plan the destruction of the U.S., it's not like the CIA are hooking them up to batteries, or sticking them with cattle prods...really, you cannot deal with a terrorist threat in a civil manner, you must extrapolate all information you can...now if they had been ignored and later found out that they (the children) knew the whereabouts of some other terrorist members (or just knowing if certain terrorist were alive) then U.S. intelligence would've been reamed for not turning over every stone...make up your minds people.

Tarkus · 03-10-2003, 09:08 PM

If they were smart they'd torture them to make them talk, and right in front of their father to make him talk. Then we'd get that SOB Bin Laden!

Tarkus

AgPete · 03-10-2003, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Qwikshot
They could point out in pictures if daddy was with anyone else though...what's not wrong with this, their father helped plan the destruction of the U.S., it's not like the CIA are hooking them up to batteries, or sticking them with cattle prods...really, you cannot deal with a terrorist threat in a civil manner, you must extrapolate all information you can...now if they had been ignored and later found out that they (the children) knew the whereabouts of some other terrorist members (or just knowing if certain terrorist were alive) then U.S. intelligence would've been reamed for not turning over every stone...make up your minds people.

That's fair. That was the only thing I could think of. I imagine they're identifying a few mugshots and stating when they last saw the person. I suspect though that any "big fish" probably never entered the residence.

rexalllsc · 03-10-2003, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AgPete
I suspect though that any "big fish" probably never entered the residence.

But it would be prudent to ask them, no?

People were on the CIA and FBI for being lax pre-9/11 (and rightfully so)...I have no problem with them being extra-diligent now.

AgPete · 03-10-2003, 09:23 PM

I don't fault the government for being extra dilligent but red flags go up everywhere when I hear about children being interrogated. It's a nasty fight, I guess we gotta do what we gotta do. I'm sure there a lot safer with American authorities than they were with the Pakistani secret police.

JPhillips · 03-10-2003, 09:28 PM

Tarkus: We don't torture children. Ever. That is what we are fighting about.

JonInMiddleGA · 03-11-2003, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JPhillips
That is what we are fighting about.

It may be what you're fighting about. It has very little to do with what I'm fighting about.

albionmoonlight · 03-11-2003, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
It may be what you're fighting about. It has very little to do with what I'm fighting about.

About what are you fighting?

Fritz · 03-11-2003, 09:14 AM

I'm fighting to get the cheese dip back at Papa Johns!

JPhillips · 03-11-2003, 09:19 AM

Fritz: I can join that cause!

scooper · 03-11-2003, 09:37 AM

No way. It's garlic butter, pizza sauce or nothing. Deal with it.

scooper · 03-11-2003, 09:37 AM

Dola

Some of you have been watching too much 24.

03-10-2003, 08:55 PM	#3
AgPete College Prospect Join Date: Jan 2001	Brilliant detective work by our government. I'm sure Khalid Shaikh Mohammed spends every night laying out his terroist plans with his seven year old and asking him for advice on explosives and strategic American targets. No wonder we can't find Bin Laden. I bet those kids though are already experts on Anti-American propaganda. They would probably make great case studies for how these people are trained to hate from day one. __________________ Click here for the FOF2004 World Football League Dynasty (WFL) - Football Goes Global! OOTP5 Psychology Experiment (Incomplete but fun read for MLB fans.) The FOFC All-Time NFL Team - Voted on by FOFC members.

03-10-2003, 09:07 PM	#5
Qwikshot Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ...down the gravity well	They could point out in pictures if daddy was with anyone else though...what's not wrong with this, their father helped plan the destruction of the U.S., it's not like the CIA are hooking them up to batteries, or sticking them with cattle prods...really, you cannot deal with a terrorist threat in a civil manner, you must extrapolate all information you can...now if they had been ignored and later found out that they (the children) knew the whereabouts of some other terrorist members (or just knowing if certain terrorist were alive) then U.S. intelligence would've been reamed for not turning over every stone...make up your minds people. __________________ "General Woundwort's body was never found. It could be that he still lives his fierce life somewhere else, but from that day on, mother rabbits would tell their kittens that if they did not do as they were told, the General would get them. Such was Woundwort's monument, and perhaps it would not have displeased him." Watership Down, Richard Adams

03-10-2003, 09:08 PM	#6
Tarkus High School Varsity Join Date: Jun 2001	If they were smart they'd torture them to make them talk, and right in front of their father to make him talk. Then we'd get that SOB Bin Laden! Tarkus __________________ Winning may not be everything, but losing isn't anything.

03-10-2003, 09:23 PM	#9
AgPete College Prospect Join Date: Jan 2001	I don't fault the government for being extra dilligent but red flags go up everywhere when I hear about children being interrogated. It's a nasty fight, I guess we gotta do what we gotta do. I'm sure there a lot safer with American authorities than they were with the Pakistani secret police. __________________ Click here for the FOF2004 World Football League Dynasty (WFL) - Football Goes Global! OOTP5 Psychology Experiment (Incomplete but fun read for MLB fans.) The FOFC All-Time NFL Team - Voted on by FOFC members.

03-10-2003, 09:28 PM	#10
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	Tarkus: We don't torture children. Ever. That is what we are fighting about. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

03-10-2003, 08:28 PM	#2
Fonzie Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Illinois	I suppose I can understand the CIA's position and purpose, but I find this action to be incredibly offensive. Of course, I'd probably feel that way about most of what the CIA does, were I ever to find that out. I'm also all in favor of prosecuting the war on terror. I'm sure that's what the CIA is trying to do, and they may well learn some minimal information from the boys. I suspect, however, that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed failed to tell his young children of any top secret al Qaeda plans, and probably never even told them such basic information as when or where or with whom he was meeting. Perhaps I'm wrong, maybe he was stupid enough to keep his kids around for his planning meetings or let a few things slip that he shouldn't have. But even if that's the case the CIA had best talk to the child psychologists they've got working with those boys about the research on information gleaned from child interrogations and child testimony: it has been found to be incredibly unreliable, as the kids tend to tell the adults what the kids think the adults want to hear regardless of the truth. Will this situation be different? Maybe, maybe not. The CIA'd best be careful - this is a potentially nasty situation that could (further) undermine the US's credibility in the eyes of a world that is already incredibly skeptical of our actions of late. Oh right, I forgot, our president doesn't give a hoot about what the world thinks about anything. Never mind that last bit of advice, then.

03-10-2003, 09:00 PM	#4
ice4277 Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkley, MI: The Hotbed of FOFC!	First off, they weren't "kidnapped". I'm ok with this as long as they don't do anything to harm them. Just ask them some questions and send them back.

03-11-2003, 09:14 AM	#13
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	I'm fighting to get the cheese dip back at Papa Johns! __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

03-11-2003, 09:19 AM	#14
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	Fritz: I can join that cause! __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

03-11-2003, 09:37 AM	#15
scooper College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cinn City	No way. It's garlic butter, pizza sauce or nothing. Deal with it.

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