Manning 47, Vick 1 ?!?

temley06 · 01-10-2005, 06:15 PM

It was no surprise that Manning won the MVP, considering the season he had. I am a little surprised that it was not unanimous. But Michael Vick? He is certainly one of the most exciting players to watch, and I would pay to see him, but how does he get an MVP vote. Culpepper, McNabb, Owens and possibly Brees would have gotten a vote ahead of him in my book. I guess someone in Atlanta or Blacksburg is a bit of a homer.

JonInMiddleGA · 01-10-2005, 06:23 PM

Maybe, just maybe, somebody took the "Most Valuable Player" thing literally, and voted according to "Most Valuable To Their Team".

I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that Vick means more to Atlanta than Manning is to Indy. Not as good, not as dominating, not as anything as Manning ... except in terms of value to his team.

korme · 01-10-2005, 06:24 PM

ima have to agree with temley.. i was surprised to see the 1 vote not to Manning went to Vick, when numerous others probably deserved more a vote than he - Martin, Alexander, Brees, Culpepper, McNabb, Owens, etc..

timmynausea · 01-10-2005, 06:25 PM

I'd say Manning is pretty valuable to his team, in fact more so than Vick. Atlanta wins with defense. The Colts, obviously, win with offense, and if you take away Peyton Manning their offense could become pretty average pretty fast.
Culpepper is probably the most valuable to his team, in my opinion.

VPI97 · 01-10-2005, 06:33 PM

I was surprised Vick didn't get more. At most, the Falcons would win 5 games without him.

Tigercat · 01-10-2005, 06:36 PM

You take Vick away from Atlanta they can win 6-8 games with their backup rookie QB or a free agent signee. You take Manning away from the Colts and they are lucky to sniff 6 wins with one of their backups or a free agent guy.

temley06 · 01-10-2005, 06:37 PM

Look at the Colts when they played Denver in week 17 with Sorgi, blown out by Denver. Granted several of their starters were sitting, but the offensive line was mostly the starters all game and Harrison and Wayne played a significant portion. Then the wild-card round was a totally different story. Without Manning the Colts probably do not make the playoffs. Also one thing that makes Manning so valuable to the team is that he does play every snap and almost never misses a game due to injury (1 in 7 years).

JonInMiddleGA · 01-10-2005, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigercat

You take Vick away from Atlanta they can win 6-8 games with their backup rookie QB or a free agent signee. You take Manning away from the Colts and they are lucky to sniff 6 wins with one of their backups or a free agent guy.

I'd say you're grossly overestimating the rest of the Atlanta roster ... or more accurately perhaps, overestimating the ability of the rest of the roster to win without the confidence having Vick gives them.

With James, Harrison, et al, as offensive weapons, I'd take my chances on a Manning-less Colts with a random QB 100 times over a Falcons roster minus Vick.

Joe · 01-10-2005, 07:31 PM

how did culpepper not get a single vote? Over 4,700 yards, 69% completion rate, and 39 TDs. The 8-8 record probably had something to do with it.

Tigercat · 01-10-2005, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'd say you're grossly overestimating the rest of the Atlanta roster ... or more accurately perhaps, overestimating the ability of the rest of the roster to win without the confidence having Vick gives them.

With James, Harrison, et al, as offensive weapons, I'd take my chances on a Manning-less Colts with a random QB 100 times over a Falcons roster minus Vick.

The Falcons D is much better than the Colts.

Many may not agree with me, but if you put the same average QB with the Colts and the Falcons, I think the passing offenses will look about the same. Harrison is a GREAT WR, but I think only when he has a good QB that can throw accurately in time with his precise routes. He doesn't have the speed or size to fight for the ball when an average QB is throwing it around not so accurately. Add on to the fact that Shaub is better than any of the Colts backup QBs....

And then you look at where they play. Even if a Vickless Falcons team is worse than a Manningless Colts team, a Vickless Falcons team would find it much easer to win games thanks to playing in the NFC, meaning they could still win to a lesser degree. In the AFC a Manningless Colts team would get slaughtered. So this year, as far as win and losses for the teams, IMO Manning means more.

Maple Leafs · 01-10-2005, 08:08 PM

NFL does a basic vote, no second or third place votes, correct?

temley06 · 01-10-2005, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

NFL does a basic vote, no second or third place votes, correct?

I think so

CHEMICAL SOLDIER · 01-10-2005, 08:23 PM

Im glad Peyton won. Im really still not convinced with Vick's ability to throw the ball. Maybe in a few years Maybe.

ISiddiqui · 01-10-2005, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VPI97

I was surprised Vick didn't get more. At most, the Falcons would win 5 games without him.

I'm suprised you'd go that high. With their line and recievers, 3 wins would be more apt.

Without Vick's ability to run, the Falcons couldn't do anything this year.

mckerney · 01-10-2005, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

Im glad Peyton won. Im really still not convinced with Vick's ability to throw the ball. Maybe in a few years Maybe.

His MVP status shouldn't really be judged on not being the best passer if he can still find a way to win.

Havok · 01-11-2005, 12:56 AM

what....a....joke.....

stkelly52 · 01-11-2005, 01:23 AM

One key difference is that we were able to see what happened to the Falcons last year with vick out and this year with him. Sure it is easy to speculate how well the Colts would have done without Manning, but we saw how well Atlanta did last year, and there was very little that changed from last year to this.

That said, I think manning deserved the award, I just can see how someone might pick Vick.

GrantDawg · 01-11-2005, 06:14 AM

Who was it that made this vote? I heard he was outed on Fox, and I believe it was one of their guys.

MizzouRah · 01-11-2005, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Who was it that made this vote? I heard he was outed on Fox, and I believe it was one of their guys.

It was some idiot who wanted to be different.

He'll be sitting with friends one day and say, "I was the guy who voted for Michael Vick." Tee-Hee!

Todd

Router Help · 01-11-2005, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Who was it that made this vote? I heard he was outed on Fox, and I believe it was one of their guys.

It was Detroit News writer Mike O'Hara.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/lions/0501/11/f01-56421.htm

rkmsuf · 01-11-2005, 01:58 PM

See it says Manning and Vick

not

Peyton and Michael.

Case closed.

ISiddiqui · 01-11-2005, 01:59 PM

Damned biased Detroit writers

.

temley06 · 01-11-2005, 02:39 PM

I am glad he gave an explanation, I can respect that. I am just glad he did not vote against Manning out of anger since Manning hung a 6 TD game on the Lions and embarassed them on national TV.

ISiddiqui · 01-11-2005, 04:46 PM

The voter DID vote Manning as AP Offensive Player of the Year (saying you'd be an idiot not to) and Manning was his QB on his All-Pro team, so it didn't have anything against Manning.

01-10-2005, 06:23 PM	#2
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Maybe, just maybe, somebody took the "Most Valuable Player" thing literally, and voted according to "Most Valuable To Their Team". I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that Vick means more to Atlanta than Manning is to Indy. Not as good, not as dominating, not as anything as Manning ... except in terms of value to his team. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

01-10-2005, 06:33 PM	#5
VPI97 Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, Hi Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Kennesaw, GA	I was surprised Vick didn't get more. At most, the Falcons would win 5 games without him. __________________ CT & Jivin - "Surprisingly Entertaining"

01-10-2005, 08:08 PM	#11
Maple Leafs Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002	NFL does a basic vote, no second or third place votes, correct? __________________ Down Goes Brown: Toronto Maple Leafs Humor and Analysis

01-10-2005, 08:23 PM	#13
CHEMICAL SOLDIER College Starter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Henderson, Nevada	Im glad Peyton won. Im really still not convinced with Vick's ability to throw the ball. Maybe in a few years Maybe. __________________ Toujour Pret

01-11-2005, 12:56 AM	#16
Havok College Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Florida	what....a....joke..... __________________ Maniacal Misfitz - We're better than you and we know it!

01-10-2005, 06:24 PM	#3
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	ima have to agree with temley.. i was surprised to see the 1 vote not to Manning went to Vick, when numerous others probably deserved more a vote than he - Martin, Alexander, Brees, Culpepper, McNabb, Owens, etc..

01-10-2005, 06:25 PM	#4
timmynausea College Starter Join Date: Dec 2002	I'd say Manning is pretty valuable to his team, in fact more so than Vick. Atlanta wins with defense. The Colts, obviously, win with offense, and if you take away Peyton Manning their offense could become pretty average pretty fast. Culpepper is probably the most valuable to his team, in my opinion.

01-10-2005, 06:36 PM	#6
Tigercat College Starter Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Federal Way, WA	You take Vick away from Atlanta they can win 6-8 games with their backup rookie QB or a free agent signee. You take Manning away from the Colts and they are lucky to sniff 6 wins with one of their backups or a free agent guy.

01-10-2005, 06:37 PM	#7
temley06 H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indianapolis	Look at the Colts when they played Denver in week 17 with Sorgi, blown out by Denver. Granted several of their starters were sitting, but the offensive line was mostly the starters all game and Harrison and Wayne played a significant portion. Then the wild-card round was a totally different story. Without Manning the Colts probably do not make the playoffs. Also one thing that makes Manning so valuable to the team is that he does play every snap and almost never misses a game due to injury (1 in 7 years).

01-10-2005, 07:31 PM	#9
Joe Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Minneapolis	how did culpepper not get a single vote? Over 4,700 yards, 69% completion rate, and 39 TDs. The 8-8 record probably had something to do with it.

01-11-2005, 01:23 AM	#17
stkelly52 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Seattle WA	One key difference is that we were able to see what happened to the Falcons last year with vick out and this year with him. Sure it is easy to speculate how well the Colts would have done without Manning, but we saw how well Atlanta did last year, and there was very little that changed from last year to this. That said, I think manning deserved the award, I just can see how someone might pick Vick.

01-11-2005, 06:14 AM	#18
GrantDawg World Champion Mis-speller Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Covington, Ga.	Who was it that made this vote? I heard he was outed on Fox, and I believe it was one of their guys.

01-11-2005, 01:58 PM	#21
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	See it says Manning and Vick not Peyton and Michael. Case closed. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

01-11-2005, 01:59 PM	#22
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Damned biased Detroit writers . __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

01-11-2005, 02:39 PM	#23
temley06 H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indianapolis	I am glad he gave an explanation, I can respect that. I am just glad he did not vote against Manning out of anger since Manning hung a 6 TD game on the Lions and embarassed them on national TV.

01-11-2005, 04:46 PM	#24
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	The voter DID vote Manning as AP Offensive Player of the Year (saying you'd be an idiot not to) and Manning was his QB on his All-Pro team, so it didn't have anything against Manning. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)