Am i gonna get scammed?

[valhalla]

Hi everyone, longtime lurker (about a year), I read the forums daily great group here very entertaining and very good discusssions.. Finally took the time to register, yes im that lazy...

Anyways ive seen a lot of people on this board are very smart with people in many career fields, i was hoping i could get an opinion on something that sounds too good to be true..

Basicly, i recieved a call about a week ago saying i had won $250,000 in a raffle.. I was very suspicious of it but decided to play along just to see.. Basicly she told me i had entered a raffle on boxxer day (its in december) 2003 and won, but they coulddnt get a hold of me.. She works for an unclaimed claim agency in BC Canada. She informed me that she was going to send a check out for 2,995 dollars, of which, I had to pay them back 2,600 dollars.

I didnt expect the check to come, and a few days passed. Nothing. Then today, the check arrived in the mail. It is legit, and as she stated, it is for 2,995 dollars. The 2,995 dollars were taken from my winnings, at least that is what was stated in the attached letter. I am now supposed to cash the check, and moneygram them back 2,600 dollars for canadian customs taxs. Once they recieve the payment, they will immediatley wire me the 250,000 dollars.

Im very suspicious because I dont remember entering a raffle. She also has not stated anything about taxes as of yet. But, let me state that she did call me on wednesday, left a message, and I have not made contact with her as of yet.

Any advice, or ideas on how this could be a scam? How should I proceed?? Im worried, it sounds too good to be true! HELP!

[stevew]

It sounds scammy as hell.

[Ksyrup]

If you have to send them money, chances are it's fraudulent. I'd do some heavy independent investigating/asking questions before I jumped into something like this. Actually, if it was me, I'd shred the check and move on. Someone here might have a good idea how that check might be able to be cashed, but come back bad at a later point. It looks like you're only out $5, but they wouldn't send people $2600 just to scam them out of $5 each. I'm just not familiar with how banks operate, though.

[MizzouRah]

It's a fraudulent check?

Wait until the $2995 clears and then send them$2600 out of that money - using none of yours.

Although I'm with Ksyrup here... if it sounds too good to be true....


Todd

[Ksyrup]

Or - again, not knowing how the banking system works - maybe the check is intended to defraud the bank, not you. They accept it, cash it, give you the money, then they lose out when it turns out to be no good. And the scammers get you to play the part of the "mule" - AND you send them $5 to cover their S&H, to boot.

Again, just playing the devil's advocate, with not much substantive knowledge of how they could pull off a scam like this.

[Cuckoo]

Gotta be a scam.

But, if not, I'm really glad to meet you.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

That check sounds like cheap rubber.

If you don't remember entering a raffle, you probably didn't unless you're getting some good medical hashish. Hold on to the check. If she calls again tell her your attorney advised you to request a copy of the raffle ticket. Take a few minutes and look up the company name on the check. Whatever you do, DO NOT SEND THE $2,600! You could even contact the tax office and see if you need to pay the $2,600 up front (which of course you will not.)

Also, tell them you don't feel comfortable transacting that kind of cash in the mail. You wish to go down to their offices. I bet she says that that is not possible...

[sabotai]

Isn't there a name of a bank on the check? Why not try to call the bank to see if the account exists and if it has the funds in the account to cover the check.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

COme to think of it, this is Canadian money we're talking... Wire the $2,600... That's what, about $4.53???

[Raven]

Go to your bank. Speak directly with the branch manager, or whoever is in charge. Tell them exactly what has happened, and have him/her take a look at the check. You can guarantee they will go out of their way to be sure they aren't going to cash a fraudulent check.

If they say it's a legitimate check, wait until you have the money in your account before you do anything else.

[cthomer5000]

"They used to call me Grifty McGriff. I wrote the book on flim-flamming."

[mckerney]

Anything where you're going to have to send money back is a scam. If there were a tax that needed to be paid on a legitimate prize I'm sure they wouldn't need you to send the money.

[QuikSand]

It's a fascinating case, really.

Personally, I think the chances of this being a scam are so very nearly 100% that it might not even be worth the hour or so investment to to the sort of follow-up that is being advised here.

But what the heck -- deposit the check, I guess. If you land all those loonies, I guess that's good, right?

[Cap Ologist]

Why can't they just take it out of the money they are promising to wire you? I smell scam.

[Eaglesfan27]

I wonder what they could do with your account number and routing number that they will get from your check. This seems very suspicious to me.

[TLK]

Originally Posted by Cap Ologist

Why can't they just take it out of the money they are promising to wire you? I smell scam.

I'll guess they'll say for varification purposes.... I'm dumb when it comes to stuff like this, so I'd most likely do it.... however if it was a friend asking for advice, I'd tell him/her to stay the f' away from it....

[TLK]

dola....

but please keep us updated with whatever happens

[Desnudo]

Why is a raffle ticket subject to custom tax?

[Lucky Jim]

I'm interested in what you did to "play along" with this. There can be some very interesting ramifications in situations like this where you are entering into contractual territory that isn't immediately apparent. Whatever you agreed to when you authorized them to send you this check might escalate into something more serious by cashing this check. You're being sucked into a classic scam structure here with a "well I'm not really losing anything" appearance, and like everybody else has said the odds of this being legit are so low that I don't know if I'd even reccomend getting legal advice, just a waste of more time and money. But back to the original question, you said you played along, what and how did you handle the situation and what kind of agreement did you enter to have them send you this check? This seems pretty critical to me.

[Troll]

I'm guessing this is what is gonna happen. You will cash the check, your bank will suspect nothing. You send the person $2600, you are left with what is left. A week or so later the bank will contact you and tell you the check was fake and they need the money back or you are going to get sued. You either pay the money back that is now out of your pocket or you get sued. I would take the check to the police and let them deal with it.

[Ragone]

This reminds me of that story of the guy who deposited one of those dummy checks..

[21C]

Ah, the power of google . . .

http://www.camh.net/egambling/issue9/opinion/shears/

Scroll down to lottery scams.

[valhalla]

Wow thanks everyone, some great replies here.. The link provided by 21c describes EXACTLY the type of situation ive just encountered almost to the teeth, thats exactly what they say the fee is for, Canadian Customs... Looks like KSyrup and Troll where right on with their suspicions of how the scam works..

I plan to follow ravens advice and go to my bank and explain the situation and see what they can do.. I got a phone number,address and check maybe they can track them down.. Im sure they are familiar with this type of scam.. Im very angry that they tried this on me and feel real stupid for even going this far on it, i should have hung up i know better.

I knew it was too good to be true and something was up, heh. Pretty clever scam, looks like the bank would have been the main victim, unless they had made me pay the losses for being an idiot.. Heh

I will keep you all posted, thanks again some bright people here.

[Buddy Grant]

You gotta' love greed, it makes the world of confidence scams go round.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

It goes without saying that anything that involves you sending money to an unsolicited call from a stranger is bad news and a scam. There are NO exceptions. None. Period.

This is nothing more than a twist on the classic, "hey you won a trip to Hawaii, just send us $129.50 for service charges, taxes, etc. and your tickets will be in the mail."

[albionmoonlight]

Call the FBI (and/or the Canadian equivilant), too.

[Ksyrup]

You will NEVER believe what I saw when I opened the Local & State section of the Tallahassee paper this morning:



Net scam has new twist


Locals taken for thousands

By James L. Rosica

DEMOCRAT STAFF WRITER


The latest version of the "Nigerian scam" has come to town.

And since Aug. 1, Tallahasseeans have had more than $40,000 stolen or almost stolen from them using this scam, police said this week.

The most frequently victimized group? Sellers of automobiles using electronic auction houses, such as eBay and AutoTraders.

Here's how the traditional Nigerian scam works: You get an e-mail saying you've won a lottery, were left an inheritance or offered a business opportunity. It asks the receiver to put up cash as security - basically putting up money now to get more money later.

Then the sender disappears, and you're bilked.

"Greed overrides your common sense," said Sgt. Bill Bierbaum of TPD's Financial Crimes Unit, explaining how most people fall victim.

The federal Internet Fraud Complaint Center reported total complaints of $54 million in fraud in 2002, the most recent figure available on its Web site, up from $17 million in 2001. And Internet auction fraud is the most reported, about 34,600 complaints.

"It's the fastest-growing (Internet) problem we see," said Paul Bresson, a spokesman for the FBI in Washington. "We take it very seriously."

In the current twist, known as "overpaying," con artists send e-mail to people who are offering to sell cars online, saying they want to buy.

The flim-flammer wants to send a cashier's check for more than what the seller is asking. The scammer asks the victim to cash the check and send back what the item costs, usually through a wire service.

The seller is told he or she can keep what's left - anywhere from $2,000 to $12,000.

But the check is phony, and most of the time the bank doesn't catch it until it's too late. The victim could be responsible for paying back all the money, depending on the bank.

Bierbaum declined to disclose local victims' names because the cases are still under investigation. There are as many as 15 victims so far, including college students, he said.

Here's how Bierbaum recommends people protect themselves:

• Review any check received as payment for merchandise. Take the check to your financial institution but don't deposit it into your account.

Instead, ask the bank to send the item "for collection," Bierbaum said. The seller's account will be credited only when the funds are received from the financial institution that the check is drawn upon.

• If buyers offer to send money using a wire service, the seller must provide the buyer with a bank routing number and account number.

The seller should make sure that they have a positive identification for the buyer. Sellers should speak with their banker about how money should be transferred and what precautions should be taken.

For more information, call Bierbaum at 891-4456.



http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/9755681.htm



Talk about good timing....

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

It goes without saying that anything that involves you sending money to an unsolicited call from a stranger is bad news and a scam. There are NO exceptions. None. Period.

Hey VP I was wondering if you could wire me a couple grand I'll send it back to you after I make money off it promise k thx

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Buddy Grant

You gotta' love greed, it makes the world of confidence scams go round.

Damn dirty Canadians...

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by ice4277

Hey VP I was wondering if you could wire me a couple grand I'll send it back to you after I make money off it promise k thx

Actually, that's not a bad investment. And seeing how you have come to by message board rather than telephone call or email, I don't have a problem.

Where should I send the money?

[Fisher]

This does kinda sound to good to be true. I am Canadian, and lottery/raffle winnings are non-taxable. I am assuming the only place they would be taxable would be in your home country. So I believe the part about paying a tax/fee to Canada customs to be BS. It is actually called the Canada Customs and Revenue agency. They collect all tax related revenues, but not off lottery/raffle/gambling incomes.

I am actually from Vancouver, BC, Canada, and these sort of scams have made alot of headlines here in recent years. Anyway, if you want, post some info about the company trying to arrange this for you. Since I am in their neck of the woods I can see what I can find out about them.

[Joe]

send me some money plz thx

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Fisher

This does kinda sound to good to be true. I am Canadian, and lottery/raffle winnings are non-taxable. I am assuming the only place they would be taxable would be in your home country. So I believe the part about paying a tax/fee to Canada customs to be BS. It is actually called the Canada Customs and Revenue agency. They collect all tax related revenues, but not off lottery/raffle/gambling incomes.

I am actually from Vancouver, BC, Canada, and these sort of scams have made alot of headlines here in recent years. Anyway, if you want, post some info about the company trying to arrange this for you. Since I am in their neck of the woods I can see what I can find out about them.

See the bolded parts, bingo!

These sort of scams have also been part of the news and some investigative tv shows in Quebec last Winter if I remember correctly...

FM

[judicial clerk]

instead of going to your bank, i would lob a call to your state attorney general or the FBI. Since this girl is calling you, the authorities might even be able to use you to track these people down. how sweet would that be?

[QuikSand]

The Canadian lottery scam was featured on 60 Minutes last night, by the way. Interviews with a convicted huckster who used to run this racket (one of many) and also with a bunch of old suckers who were apparently handing over thousands and thousands of dollars to people calling them on the telephone. Kind of Darwinian, but pretty sad, too.

[mattwakeman]

The internet constantly provides the clearest examples that if something looks too good to be true, that's 'cos it is...

[Miller Time]

Does anyone know the penalty if you are caught running one of these scams. I'm assuming you would be prosecuted in the US (if you are running the scam from Canada). I can imagine those people are looking at some serious jail time.

Not sure what the actual charge would be....maybe impersonating a federal tax agent?

Any ideas?

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Miller Time

Not sure what the actual charge would be....maybe impersonating a federal tax agent?

Any ideas?

Fraud would be a good start.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Miller Time

Does anyone know the penalty if you are caught running one of these scams. I'm assuming you would be prosecuted in the US (if you are running the scam from Canada). I can imagine those people are looking at some serious jail time.

Not sure what the actual charge would be....maybe impersonating a federal tax agent?

Any ideas?

Uh, I'm guessing this is because you are just curious.

[Miller Time]

No, it's because I am running this scam and am wondering what happens to me if I get caught.

Actually, I'm more curious with who prosecutes the offender rather than the length of the jail time served. Who has the territorial rights here? Canada or the US?

[valhalla]

Well I went down to my bank this morning and had a talk with the branch manager, basiclly she said i could deposit the check and wait to see if it clears (hah no thx!) or just have it all sent to their fraud investigation team and have them investigate it.. So their fraud investigation team is now looking into it and it which will probably take a few weeks till they contact me.

Funny thing is the lady trying to scam me called before i went to the bank, i played along again and she tried her best to get me to cash it right away and send the money within a few hours saying if i did it fast she could send me my 250k right away.. Looks like she wants to make sure that after i cash it, i send it before me or the bank figures out the check bounced.

When she calls back im gonna tell her im waiting for the check to clear and be verified before i send her any money.

I should have hung up and not been , but who knows maybe my info helps them get her and saving someone the grief

[yabanci]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

The Canadian lottery scam was featured on 60 Minutes last night, by the way. Interviews with a convicted huckster who used to run this racket (one of many) and also with a bunch of old suckers who were apparently handing over thousands and thousands of dollars to people calling them on the telephone. Kind of Darwinian, but pretty sad, too.

hxxp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/23/60minutes/main645313.shtml

[MacroGuru]

I would look at it this way...if it cashes, and clears and the investigation team clears it, then send them a Cashiers check, that way, their is no way, they can access your account as the check is written on the banks general account and routing #.

If it's a fraud, well, you saved yourself some cash.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Raven

Go to your bank. Speak directly with the branch manager, or whoever is in charge. Tell them exactly what has happened, and have him/her take a look at the check. You can guarantee they will go out of their way to be sure they aren't going to cash a fraudulent check.

If they say it's a legitimate check, wait until you have the money in your account before you do anything else.

I'd definitely take this approach (even if it IS a scam, they might have screwed up and given you a legitimate cheque - I've heard of that happening before with the 'fake' cheques that you find in standard junk mail, there's a thread on here somewhere about it, made very interesting reading).

Don't risk any of your cash, see if you can cash the cheque first - if so then pay it in and wait for it to clear, if they're legitimate then they won't mind (but they aren't its 99.9% certain) ... if they're not and it clears then you're dollars in, if it doesn't then at least you didn't lose anything.

[Mantle2600]

My mom had something like this just happen to her, they sent her a check, she deposited it and it turned out to be a fraudulent cashiers check. Now they took away her debit card and she has to try to get it back.

[valhalla]

Update: the bank just called me back a few hours ago, the check was real but the account didnt have enough funds in it, so the check would have bounced! They said it was definatley a scam and they are trying to track her down now..

Hopley they catch these assholes.. Im tempted to call the lady and give her a piece of my mind, but im sure that wouldnt help things.

[cthomer5000]

good work. keep us posted.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by valhalla

Update: the bank just called me back a few hours ago, the check was real but the account didnt have enough funds in it, so the check would have bounced! They said it was definatley a scam and they are trying to track her down now..

Hopley they catch these assholes.. Im tempted to call the lady and give her a piece of my mind, but im sure that wouldnt help things.

Let them track her down first.

[CraigSca]

Actually, it would have been funny (though entirely unrealistic and dishonest) if the check was real, and the check you send them was not and/or bounced. It's the oldest scam of a scam in the book.....or not.

[Honolulu_Blue]

This whole scamming thing reminds me of an entertaining (yet VERY long) read.

hxxp://www.419eater.com/html/joe_eboh.htm

Funny stuff.