Someone finally got it right!

[MrBug708]

French and Germans banned!

[Tarkus]

Well, while I applaud him the argument about the US helping out in WWII really doesn't apply to the Germans.

Tarkus

Originally posted by Tarkus
Well, while I applaud him the argument about the US helping out in WWII really doesn't apply to the Germans.

Tarkus

I think it does. The liberation of the German people was very much apart of the victory over the German government. IMO.

[Tarkus]

Originally posted by couriers
I think it does. The liberation of the German people was very much apart of the victory over the German government. IMO.

I have a real issue with this statement, but it's too emotional for me so I won't go there.

Tarkus

P.S. If you ever get a chance read: Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen

Only stating my personal opinion and didn't mean to bring up your emotions. From what I can best tell it would be rather difficult to find a majority of Germans that believe their lives would be better if Hitler was allowed to continue his campaign to rule the World through genocide. Once again, not a personal attack on your view but a simple counter view of my own.

[Tarkus]

Like I said, give that book a look if this subject really interests you.

Tarkus

Tarkus,

I never said anything about what might have been going on during that period of time in regards to the German people. What I did say was that in my personal opinion the German people benefited from our victory just as much as everyone else did, in the long run. Times have changed a lot since then and the German population is full of more informed and free thinking individuals who would never want to go back to such horrible times. I am very familiar with Goldhagen’s theories and have no reason to re-read that particular book again. Truth is that World War II doesn’t really interest me as much as the World that we live in today, which is what I was commenting on. By the way since you mentioned your interest in his ideas twice now it is worth noting that another interesting book on that subject is Unwilling Germans?: The Goldhagen Debate by Robert R. Shandley. Many of the papers included in that book are more meaningless than not but there are still some thought provoking concepts that everyone should consider.

Once again, not saying that your opinion is wrong but rather stating a different train of thought based on what I see as being true in today’s German society. If in fact the German population does still support Hitler’s ideas of genocide then screw them all to hell. I just don’t see that being the case.

FWIW, my heart goes out to anyone that has suffered because of what Germany did to our World and a debate on the subject is completely uncalled for. Please don’t take anything that I have said personally but rather with a grain of salt if need be.

[Tarkus]

Originally posted by couriers
Once again, not saying that your opinion is wrong but rather stating a different train of thought based on what I see as being true in today’s German society. If in fact the German population does still support Hitler’s ideas of genocide then screw them all to hell. I just don’t see that being the case.

Any time you make a blanket statement you are asking for trouble so keep that in mind with what I am about to say. In past jobs I have spent a considerable amount of time in Germany, and spoken with a lot of people who live there. Now while I can't say they support genocide, I can tell you there is still a pervasive anti-Semitic sentiment there. I can't give you any data or percentages, but it's not insignificant, and the dislike of non-Germans is not just focused on Jews. Again, this is from many people who have lived there a long time and I'm not making a blanket statement about all Germans, nor am I saying that modern-day Germans favor genocide of any particular group. I am saying there are still many of them that don't like anyone who's not your typical Arian.

Also, thanks for understanding the sensitiveness of this subject and keeping the conversation civil and friendly.

Tarkus

[ShovelMonkey]

I think what we've done for them after the war is more what pisses people off about the Germans lack of support. I agree that a good point is that we liberated the Germans from the insane tyranny of Adolph Hitler, but a bigger key is how we rebuilt them after war, dropped food and created general mayhem for West Germany until the wall dropped and unification happened.

Originally posted by Tarkus
Also, thanks for understanding the sensitiveness of this subject and keeping the conversation civil and friendly.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Maybe I should have clarified that I was not including the entire population and that it is very reasonable to believe that there are still large quantities of idiots that still plaque their country with the stupidity of Hitler's ideas. Despite this I still believe that the majority of German people (today) are good at heart just as I believe the majority of Humans are good at heart. Hopefully the number of morons will continue to decrease over time and we can eventually talk more positively about Germany as a whole. Well, heres to wishful thinking anyways.