Have you ever been told you have no character?

[Easy Mac]

I was just told this by my old boss at a job. I was offered a new job somewhere else today for $3 more an hour and benefits (health/dental). Previously I was making $8 an hour with nothing, but now its $11 with benefits. I was called into my bosses office where he proceded to rip into me, finishing by saying that I have absolutely no character.

I was obviously pretty upset. Now, I think he has a right to be pissed. The company that hired me today called this morning, offered me the job, and said it starts Monday, no ifs or buts (I asked if there was any way I could give 2 weeks, and they said no). Now granted, that kind of pressure on accepting now kind of upset me, because I shouldn't have to be in that situation. However, I felt incredibly horrible about doing that to my employer. Now I feel horrible because of my decision and because of how i was spoken to.

Perhaps for them, $3 an hour isn't that much (they wouldn't match it, just like they wouldn't match the girl who was there before me, and she was there over a year.), but for me, thats nearly 6K a year, pretax. Thats a pretty signifigant raise.

I mean, I feel horrible about that and the situation I put them in, and to an extent he had a right to say how he felt, but to says someone has no character, to me that is going too far. He had seriously even said a word to me twice before now.

Perhaps I am making too much of it though. Too late to turn back (nor would I want to)...

[Blackadar]

Screw him. I'd have walked out after that conversation.

To elaborate...a boss should NEVER get personal like that. It's unprofessional and unwarranted and it shows how much of a schmuck the guy is.

[KevinNU7]

Giving no notice is pretty bad. Going to a company where they force you into that may be even worse.

[Eaglesfan27]

I agree with both of the first two replies. I'm worried about a company that wouldn't let you give 2 weeks notice, yet your boss was WAY out of line.

[Easy Mac]

Yeah, thats my main concern now. I didn't like being put into that kind of situation, but that raise is too much to pass up at this moment.

If it backfires, then so be it, but at least I know I took a chance at improving my life instead of just being too scared to do anything.

[Eaglesfan27]

Good luck with the move. I hope it works out for you.

[Easy Mac]

dola, and whatever happens, I did it to myself, so I'm not trying to pass blame to anyone if thats how it seems.

[clintl]

Me too. Sounds to me like neither company is a very good employer.

[vtbub]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

dola, and whatever happens, I did it to myself, so I'm not trying to pass blame to anyone if thats how it seems.

You will go far in life with that kind of attitude.

A sincere, well done.

[Ksyrup]

The only thing you can do is make sure he understands that this is not your choice, and that you would give 2-weeks notice if you could. If he still feels that way, then there's nothing you can do about it. Depending on the circumstances, I'd be upset if someone walked in on Friday and quit effective immediately. I don't think I'd personally attack you, but I'd likely think less of you.

I also echo what KevinNU7 and Eaglesfan27 said. That's pretty shitty.

[Radii]

I don't know what job you do, but I imagine that most jobs that pay $8/hr with no benefits have extremely high turnover, with no notice often given.

It sucks that you weren't able to give a notice, but it sounded like your former boss handled it rather unprofessionally. You're not in the most comfortable situation, but you have to do what's best for you.

I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[Radii]

dola, another thought, is that you could offer to come in on the weekends for a couple of weeks and help train your replacement or help catch up whatever work is not being done in your sudden abscence.

At this point though that depends on how badly the bridge is burned at your old job.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'd be upset if someone walked in on Friday and quit effective immediately. I don't think I'd personally attack you, but I'd likely think less of you.

Pretty much what Ksyrup said ... and I probably wouldn't have hesitated to tell you just how much less I thought of you in the process.

FTR, I don't particularly blame you for taking the offer, but no-notice quits are not exactly the sort of thing that lead to happy partings either.

You have every right to do what's best for you, he has every right to be pissed about it & speak his mind, I'd just chalk it up to "shit happens sometimes".

[Easy Mac]

well, he was pretty much an ass (which I expected, he always came off as pompous). He told me to just leave right after he said that, so I think their pretty much done with me. He has every right to be pissed, I just don't think I expected him to verbalize it in that manner.

[Blackadar]

It really depends on the need of the company hiring. They may want Mac but have an immediate need and someone else to fill it. Under those circumstances, it's "start tomorrow or we'll have to hire the other person".

Is that kinda crappy? Yes and no. At least they gave him the option of taking the job under those circumstances or not.

Personally, my days of giving notice are over for the most part if I think something better comes along. I've been laid off 3 times in 2 years and not once was I given more than 24 hours notice. I was given severance packages, but only because I had cause for legal action in 2 out of the 3 cases. Only 1 of the 3 packages was long enough to find another job before it ran out. In 2 of the 3 packages, they ultimately violated the terms of the package as well (one by canceling my stock options, which they weren't legally entitled to do and the other by not paying my medical insurance or offering COBRA). So now I'm on a case-by-case basis on whether I even bother to give notice or just don't show up.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

well, he was pretty much an ass (which I expected, he always came off as pompous). He told me to just leave right after he said that, so I think their pretty much done with me. He has every right to be pissed, I just don't think I expected him to verbalize it in that manner.

I think you should take a giant shit on his desk before leaving.

At least pee in his wastebasket!

[CraigSca]

Easy,

Don't feel bad. Sometimes you get in no-win situations, but you have to do what's right for you. As you referenced in your initial post, a job offer like that would make me a little wary of the situation, but who can complain about a 37.5% pay increase along with full benefits.

Bottom line is - you were highly affected by this and that shows the kind of person you are inside. If your boss chooses to dwell on this for years to come, that's on him. All you can do is explain and apologize...

[Raiders Army]

I agree with most of the above, but technically your old boss is wrong. You do have character. To me, no character would equate to no personality. I would argue that you do have character, but it is the type of shifty, knife-in-the-back character that he really means....which to me is better than no character whatsoever. Then shit on his desk and tell him, "Do I have character now, asshole???"

[Easy Mac]

THanks RA, I forgot to say that be also said he felt like I betrayed him and stabbed him in the back. Granted, I know the way it went down was horrible, and if I had the opportunity to avoid it, I would have. I could have turned the job down, but I know I would have regretted it for as long as I worked at my old job. I know I'll feel bad about this for a while, but I know I can get passed it.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

THanks RA, I forgot to say that be also said he felt like I betrayed him and stabbed him in the back. Granted, I know the way it went down was horrible, and if I had the opportunity to avoid it, I would have. I could have turned the job down, but I know I would have regretted it for as long as I worked at my old job. I know I'll feel bad about this for a while, but I know I can get passed it.

You'll get past it right after your first paycheck.

[TroyF]

There is no way I could think less of a person who told me they were going to another job for $3 an hour more and benefits they didn't have at the one I was offering.

I'd prefer notice, but I understand you have to do what you have to do. Family and health come before job. Period. If you had decided not to take the job and then broke your leg in a softball game next week, would this company have honored your loyalty by paying the medical bills?

[Franklinnoble]

Yeah, you're boss is pissed that you left for more money and benefits with no notice.

He should get over it.

If he had to fire your ass, chances are, he wouldn't give you much notice about it.

No offense, but if you're paying someone $8 lousy bucks an hour, you should expect high turnover. It's not great money.

Now, if you were a salaried, white-collar professional making $80,000 a year, and you left your job without notice (a job that would probably do you the courtesy of giving you a severance package if they had to lay you off), that would be bad on your part, because it's not easy to replace an $80,000 employee.

But 8 bucks an hour? Please.

Your ex-boss needs a reality check.

[Marmel]

I've never worried about the 2 week notice thing. It is curtious, if you can do it. But if is the key word. Not a single company I know of will give you more than a couple hours notice of being laid off, fired, ect...

Companies, for the most part, don't give a rat's ass about their employees anymore, and if there is no loyalty on the employer side, there doesn't have to be on the employee side. Thats business these days, for better or worse.

I wouldn't lose a second of sleep over it.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Marmel

I've never worried about the 2 week notice thing. It is curtious, if you can do it. But if is the key word. Not a single company I know of will give you more than a couple hours notice of being laid off, fired, ect...

Companies, for the most part, don't give a rat's ass about their employees anymore, and if there is no loyalty on the employer side, there doesn't have to be on the employee side. Thats business these days, for better or worse.

In my experience, notice is a must for most law firms. I gave the state 5 weeks notice when I left, and then 2 weeks notice when I left my first private job (which was reduced to 1 week when the partner I left with had problems winding up his business arrangement with the firm).

On the flipside, I've seen the state and private firms give parting attorneys anywhere from a month to 6 months to find a new job. Now, if certain activities required an attorney to be let go immediately, that happened; but otherwise, if an attorney was being let go for ineffectiveness or just because "it wasn'tworking out," they usually were given some lead time to find another job.

[Fritz]

you will feel better if you jerk off in your (old) boss gas tank

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Screw him. I'd have walked out after that conversation.

To elaborate...a boss should NEVER get personal like that. It's unprofessional and unwarranted and it shows how much of a schmuck the guy is.

Walked out? I would have pissed on his desk.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Walked out? I would have pissed on his desk.

Why, because it's harder to have to produce a #2?

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Why, because it's harder to have to produce a #2?

Unless he's got toilet paper on his desk, I am going with plan #1.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Fritz

you will feel better if you jerk off in your (old) boss gas tank

Pix pls, kthx.

[Tekneek]

I quit one job without giving notice. When I finally did come back to pick up my final check, the woman went on a rant and waved my check around in the air for a few minutes. She concluded by telling me I would never be welcome in her store again (Waldenbooks, and by her store she must have meant that one, since she doesn't own the store or the company...but she ran the place like it was her little fiefdom).

[Token Asian Guy]

Easy, I can sort of sympathize, even though my experience was a little weirder. I was working at a restaurant making shit wages and decided I needed more money, so I set up an interview for another potential job. I requested the day off (I need an entire 24 no work period to rest up) and went to the interview, unaware that my boss had scheduled me that day. Regardless, I was fired, and when I went to explain the situation, all hell broke loose. My boss went on a 20 minute tirade about how I had shown a lack of commitment to the job and was "misguided." At that point, I didn't even want the job anymore, so I left. Turns out the place went out of business two weeks later, irony at its finest. My advice is this, do what I never got to do, and shit on his desk. Afterwards, I will anoint you my new hero.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

He has every right to be pissed, I just don't think I expected him to verbalize it in that manner.

Well, there you go. Based on the information you've provided, I think you've answered your own questions.

I think too many people are looking for reasons why this wasn't okay. The boss was a jerk, the pay is low, turnover is high, etc. Yet the bottom line is that you stiffed your old job because you got a better one. I applaud your character in the sense that you realize the nature of that choice, but from the old boss' perspective it still reflects poorly on you.

I actually had a somewhat similar instance a few weeks back, only I was on the other side of the coin. A member of my staff came in and told me that she wouldn't be able to work the upcoming special event that she'd promised she could when she was re-hired, since her parents were insisting that she leave three days earlier for grad school. She then spent an inordinate amount of time wriggling around the issue, trying to get me to tell her it was alright and everything was peachy. Well, NO, it wasn't alright. I was royally pissed because it created a major staffing hardship. She was hired with the specific understanding (it was discussed as a condition of employment) that she would work this event. I'm not going to ease her conscience and give her absolution - she made her choice and she had to face the music. I told her that there was nothing I could do to change her mind, but that I felt it reflected very poorly on her. She was yielding to pressure from her parents to violate a professional agreement to work until the job ended. Comfortable choice, but bad character move.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by Token Asian Guy

Easy, I can sort of sympathize, even though my experience was a little weirder. I was working at a restaurant making shit wages and decided I needed more money, so I set up an interview for another potential job. I requested the day off (I need an entire 24 no work period to rest up) and went to the interview, unaware that my boss had scheduled me that day. Regardless, I was fired, and when I went to explain the situation, all hell broke loose. My boss went on a 20 minute tirade about how I had shown a lack of commitment to the job and was "misguided." At that point, I didn't even want the job anymore, so I left. Turns out the place went out of business two weeks later, irony at its finest. My advice is this, do what I never got to do, and shit on his desk. Afterwards, I will anoint you my new hero.

If you think this somehow represents you in a positive light, you are mistaken (in my humble opinion).

[Hammer755]

Originally Posted by TroyF

There is no way I could think less of a person who told me they were going to another job for $3 an hour more and benefits they didn't have at the one I was offering.

I'd prefer notice, but I understand you have to do what you have to do. Family and health come before job. Period. If you had decided not to take the job and then broke your leg in a softball game next week, would this company have honored your loyalty by paying the medical bills?

I think Troy captured it best.

[Token Asian Guy]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

If you think this somehow represents you in a positive light, you are mistaken (in my humble opinion).

I was really hoping you would end that with "you have no character."

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

There is no way I could think less of a person who told me they were going to another job for $3 an hour more and benefits they didn't have at the one I was offering.

I'd prefer notice, but I understand you have to do what you have to do. Family and health come before job. Period. If you had decided not to take the job and then broke your leg in a softball game next week, would this company have honored your loyalty by paying the medical bills?

Agreed.

Easy, I've been on the boss's side in the past, being the Plant manager/operations supervisor of a recycled paper sorting facility. Paper recylcing was, and still is, a tough business at the time and we couldn't afford to pay anybody much more than $7 an hour, if only ot break even on a month to month basis. One of my employee came to me on a Wednesday and gave me three days notice, saying he was gonna start working elsewhere the next Monday. I said something to the effect of "oh shit, you sure you can't do it any other way?" or something like that, never question the person's character or anything like that, since I knew he was going to get much better conditions, conditions I couldn't afford to give to him.

Don't worry about your character, from what I read of you in this thread, you got plenty. Good luck in your new job!

FM

[GrantDawg]

I'm in the camp of not seeing how he can attack your character. You at least let him know, and not just quit showing up. He would have laid you off in a heartbeat without notice. You should give notice if you can, but you handled the situation the only honorable way you could.

[MacroGuru]

Trust me.....

If you were to be laid off...no notice given.

I was in the line at the airport checking in to fly to a client location to give a presentation when I received the phone call of being laid off.

I have always given 2 weeks, and tell companies I would prefer to give a two weeks if they want to hire me.

I applaud what you did Easy to make your life better.

[sterlingice]

This has brought up something that I think is rather intersting. What would happen if companies were expected to give 2 weeks' notice? I'm sure many companies spend a lot of time and money (in terms of a manager's salary) figuring out when to fire someone so why shouldn't there be some sort of policy or law requiring permanent employees to get 2 weeks firing notice. Of course, the downside is that few people would show up for those 2 weeks, especially anyone who had vacation days, but at least it would make companies think another split second before laying off a ton of people.


(and why am I not surprised to see CW reading this thread )

SI

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

This has brought up something that I think is rather intersting. What would happen if companies were expected to give 2 weeks' notice? I'm sure many companies spend a lot of time and money (in terms of a manager's salary) figuring out when to fire someone so why shouldn't there be some sort of policy or law requiring permanent employees to get 2 weeks firing notice. Of course, the downside is that few people would show up for those 2 weeks, especially anyone who had vacation days, but at least it would make companies think another split second before laying off a ton of people.


(and why am I not surprised to see CW reading this thread )

SI

Actually, by law in Quebec, a company has to give at least two weeks notice to anybody fired or laid off. That, or they pay two weeks of salary and let the person go rightaway. That is a minimum, and I think the law say one week per year of employment over two years, something like that...

FM

[Sporkimata]

My Dungeon master tells me that all the time.