Euro 2004 Discussion

[SirFozzie]

HOLY HELL!

Greece has done it again! 1-0 After Extra Time (first half Silver Goal)

Rematch Greece-Portugal on the 4th of July

[Mr. Wednesday]

That wasn't silver goal, though, was it? Didn't they play the full OT?

I remember reading that FIFA did away with silver goal at the same time as golden goal, so I presume silver goal was where they would play out the first OT period but not play the second if the first ended with one team in the lead.

[scooter]

It actually was a Silver Goal. This is supposed to be the last year of the Silver goal (I think). If the score is tied after 90 minutes, a first "half" of overtime (15 minutes) is played. If the score is still level after 105 minutes, they play a second 15 minute "half". If the score is still tied after 120 minutes, there is a penalty shootout.

Greece got a corner kick with just seconds left in the first half of extra time, took it and scored. Because there was only a few seconds of injury time to play, by the time the Czechs picked themselves up and started the game again, the game was over (it was almost like a Golden goal).

[Mr. Wednesday]

Yes, I had forgotten that Euro also started before the rules change, so whatever they were doing was grandfathered in. That is indeed "silver goal" OT.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Katon

Our backup will be one of the best three or four in the league.

Out of curiousity, who would you prefer on the left-wing between the two? And are you happy with the acquisition of the right-back?

[mattwakeman]

Dreadful Semis to go with dreadful QF's and a poor tournament all round imho. One game has stood out (Czech v Holland) and the success for Greece has simply given support for teams wanting to play negative defensive football (with playacting and diving added in).

It just makes me want to shoot Sven for not taking off the shackles of our midfield and really trying to win games instead of all this crappy defending. There has not been one team which has been head and shoulders above the rest. Greece v Portugal final! I can almost hear the shrieks of disbelief from UEFA's accountants already...

[Katon]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Out of curiousity, who would you prefer on the left-wing between the two? And are you happy with the acquisition of the right-back?

Actually, my preferred midfield would have Duff on the right and Robben on the left since Duff switches flanks quite well. Assuming we only play with one winger, though, it's a tough call. My impression is that Duff is slightly more polished right now, so between that and his experience in the Premiership he'd probably get my vote, but I'm perfectly happy whichever of them starts. I feel much the same way about Cudicini/Cech in goal and Crespo/Forsell up front (get him back from Birmingham, Jose!).

I've always been of the opinion that we needed another right-back; Glen Johnson is very talented, but he's still under 20 with all the inconsistency, potential for injury, and stupid suspensions there implied. He's just not ready yet to be the only option for a full season, which is why Mario Melchiot got so many games in spite of some suicidally poor defending toward the end of the season. I'd have preferred a right-back who can also cover in the middle - someone like Puyol or Thuram - but if we're going for a pure right-back Ferreira's meant to be about as good as they come. Apart from an extraordinarily uncharacteristic pass, I thought he looked about as good as any of the Portugese players in the (first) Greek game. Silly fee, but good player.

[Alf]

Katon : Santini (France trainer) was the only one on earth thinking Thuram was great at Centre-back ands refused to play him at right wing back position (his natural one...)

And, Greece, well, thre is still the 2 days extra argument (I only saw the extra time)

[Katon]

Great is not necessary, since we're not looking for someone to start at centre-back; Gallas and Terry are as good a pair as you'll find in the Premiership. All we need is someone who can cover well enough to let us loan Robert Huth out somewhere else. Marcel Desailly, alas, is no longer at that level; I was under the impression that Thuram still was. If he isn't, well, delete him from the list. The specific names are less important than the general type of player. Which Ferreira, and this is my only real objection to him, isn't.

I only caught glimpses of tonight's match, but the impression I had was that the Greeks spent much of the match under pressure, didn't crack, and eventually nicked one at the other end. Almost exactly what England were trying to do except the Greeks didn't spend the entire game with nine men in their own penalty area, didn't try to defend with four attacking midfielders, didn't completely ignore the idea of a wide player, didn't throw on Emile bloody Heskey after they went ahead . . .

Yes, I am slightly annoyed about Sven's tactics; how could you tell?

[MIJB#19]

Euro 2004's top 5 games that were worth watching:
1. Czech Republic vs Netherlands
2. Denmark vs Sweden
3. England vs France
4. England vs Portugal
5. ... (maybe the final?)

Top 5 offensive players:
1. Pavel Nedved
2. Zinedine Zidane
3. Wayne Rooney
4. Arjen Robben
5a Milan Baros
5b any scoring Portugal substitute

Top 5 worst things:
1. Italy's bad losers attitude
2. defensive playing style of 75% of the teams
3. Defense of the Dutch team
4. David Beckham's penalties
5. Swiss media being resonsible for suspension of own striker

Top 5 best things:
1. Germany knocked out in group stages
2. Italy knocked out in group stages
3. Greece knocking out Spain, France and Czech Republic
4. Czech Republic vs. Netherlands
5. Tournament title song Forca by Nelly Furtado

Top 5 most unbelievable things:
1. Greece reaching the final
2. Netherlands winning a game on penalty kicks
3. the 2-2 final score in Denmark-Sweden
4. the tiredness most star players showed
5. Milan Baros being the top goal scorer of the tournament

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Euro 2004's top 5 games that were worth watching:

Top 5 Offensive Players:
1. Pavel Nedved
2. Zinedine Zidane
3. Arjen Robben
4. Milan Baros
5. ... (the Portugal substitute player?)

Where's the Roone on this list??

[Katon]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Where's the Roone on this list??

Number five, replacing the Portugese sub.

[ice4277]

Question for people who might know a little bit more about the history of the sport than myself. If Greece win, is it the biggest upset ever in a major tournament? I know Denmark winning in '92 was big, but would this top that?

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by ice4277

Question for people who might know a little bit more about the history of the sport than myself. If Greece win, is it the biggest upset ever in a major tournament? I know Denmark winning in '92 was big, but would this top that?

Yes, because Denmark then had Peter Schmeichel in goal and Brian Laudrup up front.

No, because the Danes were called back from their vacation and even lost the first game in the tournament.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Where's the Roone on this list??

That is a valid point, it's updated above.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Katon

Number five, replacing the Portugese sub.

Actually, the Portuguese sub replaced Rooney.


But seriously, I left nr 5 open because I was not too fresh yet and just knew I forgot one player.
I think I'd put Rooney in spot 3 above Robben and Baros.

[daedalus]

Painful to say but . . . Does C. Ronaldo deserve a place on the "Top Offensive Players" list? I was under the impression that he's had a good tournament.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Painful to say but . . . Does C. Ronaldo deserve a place on the "Top Offensive Players" list? I was under the impression that he's had a good tournament.

Rooney was a no-brainer to include him, but with Ronaldo I'm not sure.
Honestly, I've only seen his action against England and against us and in those two games, Figo on the wings jumped out for me, not Ronaldo. But then Figo almost destroyed his country's chances with his early games attitude, making me kick him off the list as well.

Believe it or not, I watched this Euro2004 tournament very differntly then I used to do with previous tournaments. I have to admit that I missed things (like Spain in action) and afterward have a pretty weird feelingon how things went, yet that might have to do with all te upset scores and the boring games (glad that I didn't miss the top 4 games I mentioned and the Swe-Ned and Ned-Por knockout games).

Others not making the cut to my five best offensive players list:
Frederik Ljungberg
Maris Verpakovskis
Ruud van Nistelrooij
Henke Larsson
Jon Dahl Tomasson
Jesper Gronkjaer
Dado Prso
Michael Ballack
any Spanish winger/midfielder/attacker
any defensive player
any goalkeeper

[Mac Howard]

>Does C. Ronaldo deserve a place on the "Top Offensive Players" list?


Of course he does. And on the Euro 2004 performances he can replace Zidane

[Alf]

yep, kick Zidane out of this list (or any other French player). Only GK Barthez was on world-class form.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Actually, the Portuguese sub replaced Rooney.


But seriously, I left nr 5 open because I was not too fresh yet and just knew I forgot one player.
I think I'd put Rooney in spot 3 above Robben and Baros.

I disagree, actually. Rooney had two very impressive games - against the mighty Switzerland and Croatia - along with one decent performance - France - and one match where he got injured a third of the way through. Robben's got three performances in the same class as Rooney's best and they came against superior opposition. Well, the Czech Republic and Sweden were superior opposition; Latvia were on roughly the same level as the two Group B teams. Baros has scored more goals than Rooney and hasn't done anything so poorly as to outweigh the Golden Boot.

Zidane, incidentally, is in there off the back of two good group stage matches (against the same weak teams Rooney beat up) and three impressive minutes against England. Kicking him out for Ronaldo is probably fair.

[Katon]

What I currently know about Mateja Kezman:

- He's scored something like 95 goals in the last four seasons for PSV
- Chelsea have just agreed a fee with PSV for him

MIJB, can you help me out?

[scooter]

Another player that is having a great tournament (and raising his personal stock) is Maniche for Portugal. Even before his wonder-goal the other day, he has been impressive. With all the big names in the Portugal side grabbing the attention, he (and Carvalho) has quietly put in consistantly good performances. He plays in kind of a holding role in midfield, but he is also quick to come up and support the attack. His long range shooting is awesome and a real threat. To a certain extent, he reminds me a little of Steven Gerrard (but without the bulldog scowl). I wouldn't be surprised at his making a move to a larger club in the near future.

As far as Robben is concerned, he seems to have good games (where he is involved and dangerous) and then he has games where he just doesn't seem to be involved at all. Against Portugal he was a non-entity. I think some of that comes from playing out on the wing. I also think some of it comes from his team's lack of ability to get him the ball in a place he can use it.

[Katon]

Yes, he was a non-entity against Portugal; that's why I said he had three very good performances. That doesn't change the fact that he was comfortably the pick of the Dutch side up until that point.

More generally, I think one of the major things you learn with experience is how to handle those days when you're not at your sharpest, nobody's passing to you, the ref's not giving you calls, or the opposition's got you covered by two players. That's why teenagers are so inconsistent: no idea what to do when it isn't all flowing naturally. Robben will learn how to deal with days like Wednesday in time.

[scooter]

I hope the Portugal game will teach him a few things. I think his frustration at not making an impact in that game led to some very rash challenges and finally the yellow card. It should be interesting to watch his development at Chelsea.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Katon

What I currently know about Mateja Kezman:

- He's scored something like 95 goals in the last four seasons for PSV
- Chelsea have just agreed a fee with PSV for him

MIJB, can you help me out?

- Showed about the same goal scoring skills as Van Nistelrooij did
- Fail(ed) to score in Europe, unless playing Manchester United
- Serbian & Montenegro international
- scores the typical "nose for the goal" goals, but also scores impossible goals from 20 yards away

On Robben, he's been consistent all season, except that he has his days of "diving to get his kit green" to get himself booked and have the ref against him all day (like against Portugal).

You basically saw Robben in optima forma, consistent as always:
3 excellent games, 1 game of smelling the grass

[Alf]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

You basically saw Robben in optima forma, consistent as always:
3 excellent games, 1 game of smelling the grass

Oops, I just read smoking the grass. Guess it has something to do with speaking abouth the Dutch team

[Ryan S]

I read 'smelling the gas'......

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Dado Prso

I could be wrong but I was under the impression that Prso was not present at this Euros.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by daedalus

I could be wrong but I was under the impression that Prso was not present at this Euros.

Prso scored a great goal against France in the first round.

[Mac Howard]

If I remember rightly Prso played in all three first round matches - and a very dangerous player he was too!

[ice4277]

Thoughts on today's final?

I see Portugal winning, with that big of a home-field advantage and having already dealt with Greece once before, I can't see them losing this one. I think it will end 1-0 or 2-0.

[MIJB#19]

Portugal, 3-0. Greece's luck of beating tired teams has to run out some day.
On the other hand, if Greece wins, maybe then European top clubs and top national associations will finally get their hands on the overload of games and cut the maximum from eight games per month to six games per month.

Additionally, the football experts on this planet calling Greece a suprise should all collectively quit their jobs if Greece upsets us today to win the title.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Additionally, the football experts on this planet calling Greece a suprise should all collectively quit their jobs if Greece upsets us today to win the title.

Well it looks like we may be seeing some on the unemployment lines then, as Greece have just gone up 1-0 with 30 minutes left

[MikeVic]

I went to jimmyjump.com, like it said on that guy's shirt.. but nothing's there.

[SirFozzie]

And the mass suicide watch in Portugal is on....

[kingfc22]

Unreal. Only 1 shot in the whole game and it will probably be enough.

[kingfc22]

Damn. Make that 2 shots now.

[Vince]

Wow. Congratulations to the victors

Greece's defense was absolutely nuts...and then Ronaldo couldn't hit the two chances he had. Fun match to watch.

[MikeVic]

I found it boring.

[ice4277]

Well, you don't need to play exciting to win.

[Maple Leafs]

So, me being a dumb Canadian who doesn't really know his soccer... where does this rank in terms of all-time international sports upsets?

[Vince]

I don't understand people who think there has to be scoring to be exciting...with the score so close, every trip down the pitch has tons of intensity...some of Portugal's corners at the end of the match were nuts! I didn't even have anything invested in the match (I don't bet on sports, and I could have cared less who won), but I was whoopin and hollering like crazy at Figo's chance. What makes scoring so much more exciting than a close, low-scoring game?

[Honolulu_Blue]

A well organized, defensive team wins yet again. First the Pistons. Now Greece.

Also, my "Lucky" Greek flag is now 3 for 3. In fact, Greece has not conceded a goal since I bought it. I will retire the Lucky Greek flag tonight. It's done its job.

The honking outside my apartment has begun and will not end for many hours...

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Vince

I don't understand people who think there has to be scoring to be exciting...with the score so close, every trip down the pitch has tons of intensity...some of Portugal's corners at the end of the match were nuts! I didn't even have anything invested in the match (I don't bet on sports, and I could have cared less who won), but I was whoopin and hollering like crazy at Figo's chance. What makes scoring so much more exciting than a close, low-scoring game?

I like a close, low-scoring game if there's action. Near the end of this game, Portugal had some nice chances that I was cheering for. But the first half wasn't very exciting, at least the parts I saw. So seeing about 30 minutes of the first half, and 30 minutes of the second half, only the last couple of minutes generated anything that I could cheer about... therefore, boring game for me.

[scooter]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

So, me being a dumb Canadian who doesn't really know his soccer... where does this rank in terms of all-time international sports upsets?

The British broadcast quoted Greece's record in major tournaments (World Cup, European Champs) before this tournament. In 6 games played, they had won 0, tied 1, lost 5 with 14 goals conceded and 1 scored. Now in this tournament they beat Portugal (twice), tie Spain, lose to Russia, beat France and the Czech Republic. (And I believe if my math is right they conceded 4 and scored 7 (winning thier last three games by 1-0 scorelines)

The Greeks were not a pretty side to watch. But they chased the game and applied pressure for the full 90 minutes (105 minutes against the Czechs) in each game. Their fitness was great and they put away their chances when they got them. When they got that corner, I thought "this looks just like that corner against the Czechs" and then bang, they score. Congratulations to the Greeks!

[MIJB#19]

Thumbs up for Kosta.

Thumbs up for Greece.

Thumbs up for attractive offensive football for providing 3 of the 4 semi finalists.

Thumbs up for defensive football showing that if it is played well, you win a title with it.

Thumbs up for the people who can name at least 11 players from the Greek squad.

Thumbs up for the people who were smart enough to avoid te first half of the final and other boringgames to onyl see the exciting moments of the tournament, except that I still haven't seen Zlatan Ibrahimovic's equalizer against Italy...

[MIJB#19]

Stare in amazement as the Euro2004 23 All Stars have been revealed:

Peter Cech - Czech Republic
Antonios Nikopolids - Greece
Georgios Seiteridis - Greece
Traianos Dellas - Greece
Olof Mellberg - Sweden
Ricardo Carvalho - Portugal
Sol Campbell - England
Ashley Cole - England
Gianluca Zambrotta - Italy
Luis Figo - Portugal
Cristiano Ronaldo - Portugal
Maniche - Portugal
Theodoros Zagorakis - Greece
Michael Ballack - Germany
Zinedine Zidane - France
Frank Lampard - England
Pavel Nedved - Czech Republic
Milan Baros - Czech Republic
Angelos Charisteas - Greece
Henrik Larsson - Sweden
Wayne Rooney - England
Jon Dahl Tomasson - Denmark
Ruud van Nistelrooij - Netherlands

I miss just three players: Ricardo, Arjen Robben and Edwin van der Sar

[Katon]

Kick Figo out for Robben, Nikopolidis out for Van Der Sar, and . . . well, I don't see how to get three keepers into that lot without cutting someone who actually deserves to be there, so I'd leave Ricardo out.

[Alf]

I knew they would score on that corner kick.....