PureSim 2003 Is Complete

Shaun Sullivan · 02-08-2003, 05:22 PM

Time for my daily SPAM

PureSim 2003 is complete.

The final subscription version and official demo version were released today.

The "official" release of the game is currently scheduled for 2/22, but could go earlier given the lack of known issues. I just want to make sure that the last 2 weeks are spent doing nothing but looking for any nagging critical game issues. Right now, things look pretty good and its nice to come in ahead of schedule and have this luxury.

Check out the demo, I think you'll like it. http://www.puresim.com

Shaun Sullivan
Developer, PureSim Baseball

McSweeny · 02-08-2003, 06:10 PM

rock on

i'm looking forward to reading about how this turns out

Daimyo · 02-08-2003, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shaun Sullivan
I just want to make sure that the last 2 weeks are spent doing nothing but looking for any nagging critical game issues.

Wow... that is refreshing. I think that line alone is enough to get me to try the demo. I hate it when another baseball sim developer that shall remain nameless always says they're adding features right up until the release...

Tarkus · 02-08-2003, 08:32 PM

Shaun, would you mind sharing how you beta tested this game? All I've experienced and read about with text sims is all the problems people have when they first come out. What was done differently with this game to make sure that doesn't happen? I know a group of three playing for a few weeks isn't going to cut it. Was just wondering if you'd share. Thanks.

Tarkus

Barkeep49 · 02-08-2003, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarkus
Shaun, would you mind sharing how you beta tested this game? All I've experienced and read about with text sims is all the problems people have when they first come out. What was done differently with this game to make sure that doesn't happen? I know a group of three playing for a few weeks isn't going to cut it. Was just wondering if you'd share. Thanks.

Shaun hasn't had a real beta process. Instead since Puresim2003 is an extention of Puresim's code he has had a "subscription" model where people get a $5 discount and get incremental updates for the game. So not every feature in Puresim2003 was there when the testing began. While under no obligation to do so (like people would be in a traditional beta) many people, including myself, then posted any problems we had on the board and Shaun was able to keep the game pretty bug free throughout. Puresim is now a remarkably bug free game and if you buy it on February 22 when it's released you will see, I suspect, a more polished product "out of the box" than most other baseball sims out there. Certainly it won't have any of the huge glaring errors that FOF had, although there are likely to be some bugs yet to be squashed.

bosshogg23 · 02-08-2003, 08:39 PM

I saw Shaun added multiplayer trades to the game which were much needed. Has the trade AI been shored up? Too many times I was able to rip off the computer which led me to not purchase the game.

Tarkus · 02-08-2003, 10:06 PM

Barkeep49,

So just to make sure I understand this. You basically purchase the game before it's official release for a $5.00 discount and then supply feedback and get updates? If that's correct then it's sorta a paid beta, which is okay with me since you know what you're getting into when you sign up. Do I understand this correctly? Thanks.

Tarkus

FBPro · 02-08-2003, 10:13 PM

Pretty much.

Shaun Sullivan · 02-08-2003, 11:48 PM

Well, think of it as a beta with elevated responsibility... For example, in this case no changes could be made that would force people to re-start their leagues (or lose compatibility with PureSim 1), users were paying for a product that they expected to enjoy (not test) whereas in a beta there is a little less worry for whether the testers will have to do a "restart" upon getting the latest bits etc...

That said, there was more implied understanding on the users' part that a few bugs might creep in -- with the promise that the final release was at the end of the rainbow.

It basically kept me in release mode for 4 months and luckily the PureSim fans were super helpful in shaping the design of the game over the 9 subscription releases.

I'm very happy with how it turned out -- it was a little stressful, but worth it. I'll be doing the same thing next year.

Shaun

Barkeep49 · 02-08-2003, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bosshogg23
I saw Shaun added multiplayer trades to the game which were much needed. Has the trade AI been shored up? Too many times I was able to rip off the computer which led me to not purchase the game.

The trade AI has been shored up in my opinion a great deal. For a while I stopped trading but now trade regularly and am frustrated with the quality of deals that I can strike. For every 4 or 5 players I look to trade I can normally only trade away one of them with a deal that satisifies me. And where as before I could con teams into trading away their best pitchers fairly easily this is no longer the case at all. I would recommend trying out the new demo and test this out for yourself. You're able to play a season and a half I believe so you can get a better handle on all of the game's features.

Quote:

So just to make sure I understand this. You basically purchase the game before it's official release for a $5.00 discount and then supply feedback and get updates? If that's correct then it's sorta a paid beta, which is okay with me since you know what you're getting into when you sign up. Do I understand this correctly?

Essentially. While a semantic difference Shaun worked really hard to put out fully functional and stable versions of the game at all time. Only at the very end when he put out a couple of "beta" releases of a version was I ever forced to stop playing the game because of a bug and that was at my own risk. While there are a lot of problems with Puresim still (i.e. no DH, limited in-game managing ability, no multiplayer of any sort) I think that the game's stability is one of its strengths.

JonInMiddleGA · 02-09-2003, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barkeep49 [b]You're able to play a season and a half I believe so you can get a better handle on all of the game's features.
[ /B]

If that's the case, it's an absolutely brilliant decision on the part of the developer IMO.

Something that demos too often disregard is the fact that the end season / off-season / pre-season elements are usually pretty critical to the enjoyment of a sports text sim.
Without seeing those at least once, I might decide not to buy a game because of the in-season routines but I can't confidently decide to buy one until I know about the bookend areas.

Barkeep49 · 02-09-2003, 09:37 AM

I just checked and the updated demo is available. The game lets you run a 4 team league for 1.5 seasons. Four teams is a little on the small side, imo, but I agree that I think it's great that you can try out the whole process (something I wish Jim would let us do).

lynchjm24 · 02-09-2003, 08:46 PM

I've only been able to play with the financials in the XML for a very short period of time - but I can tell you that this game is going to be a lot more fun and challenging now that this aspect is open to us.

It seems to work best with fictional players right now - but 2003 is a huge improvement over 1.09.

I'd suggest saving 5$ and picking the game up now before the price goes up in the next couple of weeks - it's 25$ well spent.

A couple of posts from Quiksand totally changed this game in a very positive way. My thanks to QS and SS.

Ksyrup · 02-10-2003, 07:17 AM

I finally gave in and purchased the game yesterday. I like what I see. A couple of questions/observations:

1. For those using the Lahman database to start in a particular past year, are there plans to allow importing rookies from Lahman each subsequent year up through the present? I ran a test league last night and when I got to the offseason, it just created a bunch of fictional players. I hope that ability gets added at some point.

2. Why is there no segregation of AL/NL stats, awards, etc.? One Cy Young and MVP (I don't even recall seeing rookie of the year, but it was late), the stats leaderboards are combined. I'm a purist - I need to see separate stats and awards!

3. On the point of stats, a couple of times that I switched between pitcher and hitter stats, major and minor, the wrong screen came up (i.e., looking at major hitters, switched to minor hitters, then switched to pitchers - it should have come up minor (it said minor) but it showed major pitchers). Easy enough to fix by clicking between the two again, but a small bug.

4. Not sure if this is a Lahman bug or what, but I imported from Lahman for both 1972 and 1982, and California was spelled "Califonia." Again, an easy fix, and I'm not even sure this is a Puresim issue or a Lahman issue.

5. I quickly ran through the draft/free agents process last night, and didn't notice any way to stop either process once they got going. Maybe I missed it, but for those who suddenly need to exit the game and come back to finish these areas later, some way to exit, save, and reload to that spot would be helpful. Again, it was late and maybe I missed it, but I ende up cntrl-alt-del'ing out of the game during free agency.

6. I like the computer voice announcing the scores. Let's me do something else and still hear how my team's games are going during the month of simming. When I'm on a losing streak, I swear that voice reads the scores in a mocking manner.

7. There needs to be a way to move from player card to player card without clicking out and then back in to the next guy. I was getting flashbacks to High Heat for awhile there.

8. This isn't something I paid particular attention to, but for use with Lahman, the ability to have the computer set rotations at less than 5-man would be nice. Maybe it's there (?), but when I imported from 1972, all teams had 5 man rotations, which meant that one of the spots was filled by a player with no talent. So, many teams had one guy with stats like - 2-15, 9.24 ERA, etc., depending on the quality and endurance ratings of their relievers to substitute for that 5th no-talent starter. If they were all strictly relievers, that 5th spot was garbage. This would be even more of an issue for leagues starting in 1900. Did I miss that?

Shaun, nice job with this game. A year ago, I really didn't enjoy the experience, but just the last night's playing was more than enough for me to recognize that I'll be getting quite a bit for my money's worth this time around.

Cuckoo · 02-10-2003, 08:39 AM

Is this one still working with points instead of dollars? I just can't buy a game that uses points. It drives me crazy, and I never can get used to it.

FBPro · 02-10-2003, 08:47 AM

Points

QuikSand · 02-10-2003, 08:58 AM

I've said it before... I bought this game mostly due to my own support for Shaun Sullivan. He is a class guy (proven long before this project ever came to be), and this has clearly been a long-term labor of love for him. It was $25 well spent, even before checking out the game.

As it turns out, the game is well worth that investment, too. Vast potential. Some quirkiness in implementation, admittedly. But the game is very well-conceived... and there is an awful lot to be said for that. (When people criticize OOTP as "being written by someone who doesn't seem to understand baseball" that rings true to me... this game is clearly a product from a real fan)

I, too, am hopeful that some recent tweaking (particularly to the financial engine) will add to the enjoyment of the game. I didn't play CM back in its early versions... but I have a general sense that PureSim is following a similar pathway. Excellent visioning, followed by incrementally better implementation. A winning formula, I think.

lynchjm24 · 02-10-2003, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ksyrup
I finally gave in and purchased the game yesterday. I like what I see. A couple of questions/observations:

1. For those using the Lahman database to start in a particular past year, are there plans to allow importing rookies from Lahman each subsequent year up through the present? I ran a test league last night and when I got to the offseason, it just created a bunch of fictional players. I hope that ability gets added at some point.

That was a bug that crept in - Shaun said on his board this one is fixed. I haven't tried it yet - I'm finding the financials work better with fictional players.

Ksyrup · 02-11-2003, 07:06 AM

So I need to go download a new version of the game then, I take it?

lynchjm24 · 02-11-2003, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ksyrup
So I need to go download a new version of the game then, I take it?

You might - do you have the final release 9?

lynchjm24 · 02-11-2003, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ksyrup
So I need to go download a new version of the game then, I take it?

You might - do you have the final release 9?

bosshogg23 · 02-11-2003, 06:08 PM

Anyone know if Shaun plans to do a 7 day trial demo again with PureSim 2003? I liked the first Puresim but the career numbers were too high in both extremes. Too many pitchers with sub 2.00 ERA's and too many players with 500 plus homeruns. Unfortunately the only way to test if the numbers are right is to play several seasons.

Barkeep49 · 02-11-2003, 06:24 PM

There have been no discussed plans to do a 7 day trial. I would be happy, if you wanted, to supply you with the files from several multi-season leagues I've run to see if you like the results better in its current incarnation.

bosshogg23 · 02-11-2003, 06:29 PM

Thanks for the offer Barkeep! Are you playing in a large league? I saw people mention that the smaller leagues skew the numbers somewhat.

If you do have a larger league, I would appreciate seeing the file(s).

lynchjm24 · 02-11-2003, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bosshogg23
Anyone know if Shaun plans to do a 7 day trial demo again with PureSim 2003? I liked the first Puresim but the career numbers were too high in both extremes. Too many pitchers with sub 2.00 ERA's and too many players with 500 plus homeruns. Unfortunately the only way to test if the numbers are right is to play several seasons.

You could change that easily. I run a league like the Eastern League where the career homerun leader (Darryl Strawberry) has 102.

Ksyrup · 02-11-2003, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lynchjm24
You might - do you have the final release 9?

I have the final release, but the problem still occurs. Was that supposed to have been fixed?

lynchjm24 · 02-11-2003, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ksyrup
I have the final release, but the problem still occurs. Was that supposed to have been fixed?

I was just testing this - he said it was, I'll post it again on his board.

Jim

FBPro · 02-11-2003, 09:11 PM

I know that I play smaller leagues and they are always pitching heavy, career high batting averages of .310-.315 or so.

lynchjm24 · 02-11-2003, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FBPro
I know that I play smaller leagues and they are always pitching heavy, career high batting averages of .310-.315 or so.

You can tweak that a number of ways in the XML if you wanted to increase offense.

bosshogg23 · 02-11-2003, 09:39 PM

I have always been somewhat hesitant to tweak files after HH2001. Anytime I made a change, for example from .04 to .05 in any given area, the numbers changed dramatically.

I could never find a good balance in that game and have tended to avoid using the files since then.

FBPro · 02-11-2003, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lynchjm24
You can tweak that a number of ways in the XML if you wanted to increase offense.

True, but I just can't get into the game.

lynchjm24 · 02-11-2003, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bosshogg23
I have always been somewhat hesitant to tweak files after HH2001. Anytime I made a change, for example from .04 to .05 in any given area, the numbers changed dramatically.

I could never find a good balance in that game and have tended to avoid using the files since then.

Although some of the numbers are more sensitive, they aren't that sensitive.

lynchjm24 · 02-11-2003, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ksyrup
I have the final release, but the problem still occurs. Was that supposed to have been fixed?

I just started a new league, and it's working. I think that might the trick, starting a new league, because my old league still isn't importing from Lahman in succeeding seasons.

02-08-2003, 10:06 PM	#7
Tarkus High School Varsity Join Date: Jun 2001	Barkeep49, So just to make sure I understand this. You basically purchase the game before it's official release for a $5.00 discount and then supply feedback and get updates? If that's correct then it's sorta a paid beta, which is okay with me since you know what you're getting into when you sign up. Do I understand this correctly? Thanks. Tarkus Last edited by Tarkus : 02-08-2003 at 11:23 PM.

02-08-2003, 10:13 PM	#8
FBPro College Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SE	Pretty much. __________________ GM RayCo Raiders-est. 2004-2012 Charter member of the IHOF-RayCo GM GM Tennessee Titans PFL 2011-2014 GM Tennessee Titans FOWL 2020-2025

02-10-2003, 07:17 AM	#14
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	I finally gave in and purchased the game yesterday. I like what I see. A couple of questions/observations: 1. For those using the Lahman database to start in a particular past year, are there plans to allow importing rookies from Lahman each subsequent year up through the present? I ran a test league last night and when I got to the offseason, it just created a bunch of fictional players. I hope that ability gets added at some point. 2. Why is there no segregation of AL/NL stats, awards, etc.? One Cy Young and MVP (I don't even recall seeing rookie of the year, but it was late), the stats leaderboards are combined. I'm a purist - I need to see separate stats and awards! 3. On the point of stats, a couple of times that I switched between pitcher and hitter stats, major and minor, the wrong screen came up (i.e., looking at major hitters, switched to minor hitters, then switched to pitchers - it should have come up minor (it said minor) but it showed major pitchers). Easy enough to fix by clicking between the two again, but a small bug. 4. Not sure if this is a Lahman bug or what, but I imported from Lahman for both 1972 and 1982, and California was spelled "Califonia." Again, an easy fix, and I'm not even sure this is a Puresim issue or a Lahman issue. 5. I quickly ran through the draft/free agents process last night, and didn't notice any way to stop either process once they got going. Maybe I missed it, but for those who suddenly need to exit the game and come back to finish these areas later, some way to exit, save, and reload to that spot would be helpful. Again, it was late and maybe I missed it, but I ende up cntrl-alt-del'ing out of the game during free agency. 6. I like the computer voice announcing the scores. Let's me do something else and still hear how my team's games are going during the month of simming. When I'm on a losing streak, I swear that voice reads the scores in a mocking manner. 7. There needs to be a way to move from player card to player card without clicking out and then back in to the next guy. I was getting flashbacks to High Heat for awhile there. 8. This isn't something I paid particular attention to, but for use with Lahman, the ability to have the computer set rotations at less than 5-man would be nice. Maybe it's there (?), but when I imported from 1972, all teams had 5 man rotations, which meant that one of the spots was filled by a player with no talent. So, many teams had one guy with stats like - 2-15, 9.24 ERA, etc., depending on the quality and endurance ratings of their relievers to substitute for that 5th no-talent starter. If they were all strictly relievers, that 5th spot was garbage. This would be even more of an issue for leagues starting in 1900. Did I miss that? Shaun, nice job with this game. A year ago, I really didn't enjoy the experience, but just the last night's playing was more than enough for me to recognize that I'll be getting quite a bit for my money's worth this time around. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

02-10-2003, 08:47 AM	#16
FBPro College Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SE	Points __________________ GM RayCo Raiders-est. 2004-2012 Charter member of the IHOF-RayCo GM GM Tennessee Titans PFL 2011-2014 GM Tennessee Titans FOWL 2020-2025

02-11-2003, 07:06 AM	#19
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	So I need to go download a new version of the game then, I take it? __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

02-08-2003, 06:10 PM	#2
McSweeny College Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Somerville, MA	rock on i'm looking forward to reading about how this turns out

02-08-2003, 08:32 PM	#4
Tarkus High School Varsity Join Date: Jun 2001	Shaun, would you mind sharing how you beta tested this game? All I've experienced and read about with text sims is all the problems people have when they first come out. What was done differently with this game to make sure that doesn't happen? I know a group of three playing for a few weeks isn't going to cut it. Was just wondering if you'd share. Thanks. Tarkus

02-08-2003, 08:39 PM	#6
bosshogg23 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Philly	I saw Shaun added multiplayer trades to the game which were much needed. Has the trade AI been shored up? Too many times I was able to rip off the computer which led me to not purchase the game.

02-08-2003, 11:48 PM	#9
Shaun Sullivan PureSim Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Mount Pleasant, SC	Well, think of it as a beta with elevated responsibility... For example, in this case no changes could be made that would force people to re-start their leagues (or lose compatibility with PureSim 1), users were paying for a product that they expected to enjoy (not test) whereas in a beta there is a little less worry for whether the testers will have to do a "restart" upon getting the latest bits etc... That said, there was more implied understanding on the users' part that a few bugs might creep in -- with the promise that the final release was at the end of the rainbow. It basically kept me in release mode for 4 months and luckily the PureSim fans were super helpful in shaping the design of the game over the 9 subscription releases. I'm very happy with how it turned out -- it was a little stressful, but worth it. I'll be doing the same thing next year. Shaun

02-09-2003, 09:37 AM	#12
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	I just checked and the updated demo is available. The game lets you run a 4 team league for 1.5 seasons. Four teams is a little on the small side, imo, but I agree that I think it's great that you can try out the whole process (something I wish Jim would let us do).

02-09-2003, 08:46 PM	#13
lynchjm24 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hartford	I've only been able to play with the financials in the XML for a very short period of time - but I can tell you that this game is going to be a lot more fun and challenging now that this aspect is open to us. It seems to work best with fictional players right now - but 2003 is a huge improvement over 1.09. I'd suggest saving 5$ and picking the game up now before the price goes up in the next couple of weeks - it's 25$ well spent. A couple of posts from Quiksand totally changed this game in a very positive way. My thanks to QS and SS.

02-10-2003, 08:39 AM	#15
Cuckoo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edmond, OK	Is this one still working with points instead of dollars? I just can't buy a game that uses points. It drives me crazy, and I never can get used to it.

02-10-2003, 08:58 AM	#17
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I've said it before... I bought this game mostly due to my own support for Shaun Sullivan. He is a class guy (proven long before this project ever came to be), and this has clearly been a long-term labor of love for him. It was $25 well spent, even before checking out the game. As it turns out, the game is well worth that investment, too. Vast potential. Some quirkiness in implementation, admittedly. But the game is very well-conceived... and there is an awful lot to be said for that. (When people criticize OOTP as "being written by someone who doesn't seem to understand baseball" that rings true to me... this game is clearly a product from a real fan) I, too, am hopeful that some recent tweaking (particularly to the financial engine) will add to the enjoyment of the game. I didn't play CM back in its early versions... but I have a general sense that PureSim is following a similar pathway. Excellent visioning, followed by incrementally better implementation. A winning formula, I think.

02-11-2003, 06:08 PM	#22
bosshogg23 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Philly	Anyone know if Shaun plans to do a 7 day trial demo again with PureSim 2003? I liked the first Puresim but the career numbers were too high in both extremes. Too many pitchers with sub 2.00 ERA's and too many players with 500 plus homeruns. Unfortunately the only way to test if the numbers are right is to play several seasons.

02-11-2003, 06:24 PM	#23
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	There have been no discussed plans to do a 7 day trial. I would be happy, if you wanted, to supply you with the files from several multi-season leagues I've run to see if you like the results better in its current incarnation.

02-11-2003, 06:29 PM	#24
bosshogg23 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Philly	Thanks for the offer Barkeep! Are you playing in a large league? I saw people mention that the smaller leagues skew the numbers somewhat. If you do have a larger league, I would appreciate seeing the file(s).

02-11-2003, 09:11 PM	#28
FBPro College Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SE	I know that I play smaller leagues and they are always pitching heavy, career high batting averages of .310-.315 or so. __________________ GM RayCo Raiders-est. 2004-2012 Charter member of the IHOF-RayCo GM GM Tennessee Titans PFL 2011-2014 GM Tennessee Titans FOWL 2020-2025

02-11-2003, 09:39 PM	#30
bosshogg23 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Philly	I have always been somewhat hesitant to tweak files after HH2001. Anytime I made a change, for example from .04 to .05 in any given area, the numbers changed dramatically. I could never find a good balance in that game and have tended to avoid using the files since then.

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