Bastards

[Ben E Lou]

But in Iraq, the Reuters news service reported, some regarded the shuttle disaster as a sign of God's retribution on Americans.

"We are happy that it broke up," government employee Abdul Jabbar al-Quraishi told Reuters. "God wants to show that his might is greater than the Americans'. They have encroached on our country. God is avenging us."

Car mechanic Muhammad Jaber Tamini noted that among the dead was Israeli astronaut Ilan Ramon, a fighter pilot who participated in a 1981 bombing attack that destroyed an Iraqi nuclear reactor. "Israel launched an aggression on us when it raided our nuclear reactor without any reason," he said. "Now time has come and God has retaliated to their aggression."

Animals.

[Vince]

I don't understand how people can come to hate a place so much that they can express joy in a tragedy. Even during WWII with the dropping of the bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Americans were happy about the prospect of the end of the war...not the tremendous loss of life. Of course, there were probably a few (and probably mainly soldiers who had fought in the Pacific) people who were happy about the tremendous toll that the Japanese had to pay, and for that reason, perhaps it's unfair to judge a country based upon quotes from just two people...but the impression that the media implies is that that is the general consensus over there.

Which could bring up another point of interest...if the media is out to make them look like the 'bad guy,' how would we ever know? I mean, for the most part we rely on what they tell us, and none of us has an insiders' look at the situation in Iraq. So if Reuters or whoever wants to go find two ridiculously controversial quotes (see above), that's all we hear. With this in mind, how do you draw a reasonable conclusion? Is it fair to condemn all of Iraq for this? Can we draw any conclusion from this at all?

All I can say is that those two guys, the government employee and the mechanic, are seriously messed up that they are happy that other people died.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Vince
All I can say is that those two guys, the government employee and the mechanic, are seriously messed up that they are happy that other people died.

To clarify, it is those two individuals I am referring to in my thread title and one-word commentary.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola--

It is just something else to wake up on a Sunday morning, read about a little boy finding a charred leg from a shuttle astronaut, and then read about two heartless bastards celebrating it. I'll cool off later I'm sure, but right now I'm just flat-out angry.

[oykib]

Just to keep things in perspective:

Half of us are gonna be dancing in the streets when we 'bomb Iraq back into the stone age'. How many times have you heard that expression.

I mean, when we go and bomb one of these countries we're always going to kill/destroy three times as many innocent people as we are our designated military targets/soldiers/terrorists.

But no one gets upset about the mechanic who gets his leg blown off on the way to work. Nor do we become agitated about the group of towns thart loses its electricity and plumbing.

My point is-- maybe we're all bastards.

[ACStrider]

I don't intend to see this thread get into a pro/con war in Iraq, but I think we see the same element at work as what would happen if war did break out. This would be that the official position would be a vocal condemnation of the evil United State infidels but a very grateful community once the war resolved. Do the Iraqis hate us? I seriously doubt it. But it's not like you're going to hear anyone who dissents with the official position of the government speak out to say otherwise. I guess what I'm getting at here is that there are people around the world who oppose everything that we stand for, and if it so happens that they are in positions of power, then their subjects either fall into line or enjoy a nice cozy 6 by 6 cell.

[Blackadar]

Skydog, what did you expect?

[andy m]

Originally posted by oykib
My point is-- maybe we're all bastards.

WORD.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Blackadar
Skydog, what did you expect?

some level of human decency

[Bee]

The Cuban government was flying their flags at half staff, the Palestinians sent their condolenses to the American and Israeli families. But the Iraqis are happy about it.

Religious fundamentalists disgust me.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by SkyDog
some level of human decency

You overestimated the enemy and those who support them.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by oykib

I mean, when we go and bomb one of these countries we're always going to kill/destroy three times as many innocent people as we are our designated military targets/soldiers/terrorists.

Can you support this claim?

[Rembrandt]

Every time Americans are killed, there is partying in the streets in some Arab country or other (or by Arabs in London). I have never seen Americans partying in the streets when anyone died. If it happened when Hitler died, I have never seen the photos. We killed Khaddafi's (sp?) wife and kid, but did we dance in the street or burn his effigy?
Something is really wrong with a group of people with this much hatred.

[oykib]

Originally posted by Fritz
Can you support this claim?

Chasing the numbers on this is basically futile. Admittedly, I pulled those numbers out of the air to make a point. But you can't get real numbers on the subject, anyway.

I could find even more severe numbers by searching anti-war advocates' sites. Or I could use numbers put out by the Pentagon. Neither one of them is likely to be true, though.

Bombs aren't precision devices. They kill indescriminantly. And if you blow up bridges, powerplants, roads, and airports you will continue the killing long after the original bombs drop.

I'm an American. So I can easily accept the bombings. Ground troops tend to do the same thing to a lesser extent. And bombing puts less of ours into harms way. But that is a pretty un-Christian, inhumane viewpoint to admit to. Also, I don't get all broken up about, even after admitting that I know that the attitude is indecent.

Bombs are gonna kill and injure thousands or tens of thousands of 'innocent' people, depending on the scale of the war. We won't be as concerned about that as we are now about a handful of people, who knew what kind of ridiculously dangerous undertaking they were volutarily signing up for.

We care about these people because they are ours. Not because it's sad in the absolute sense. While that's not true for everyone, it's pretty close.

Of course that doesn't equate with dancing in the streets when you hear of someone else's tragedy. It's still true. And the truth is that you probably know people who were doing essentially the same thing when we bombed the crap outta Afghanistan.

[Qwikshot]

I knew the moment this happened there would be some sort of snide remark from some Middle Eastern nation's residents. I know there is an abundance of anti-American sentiments. It is good to see Palestine and Cuba at least show some level of compassion.

You cannot expect Iraqis to think any different than their dictator, otherwise they're dead.

[IMetTrentGreen]

christians have done a tremendous amount of horrible things to the world in the name of god. let's not go getting all high and mighty just yet

[panerd]

So the assosiated press find two people celebrating in Iraq and we condemn the whole nation? The sad thing is in two weeks somebody is going to make space shuttle Columbia jokes and AMERICANS are going to laugh and think they are funny. Before you say I am way off the wall with this, it happened with the Challenger.

I have three points that I want to make...

1.What pisses me off is that the media feels the need to slant every article. The reader should expect to go in and read an article about how sad the world is and how they are behind us in times of tradgady. What do we get? A pro-war piece with the delicious irony of the Isreali being killed over Palestine, Texas and the two Iraqi's (out of a population of millions) celebrating.

2. What do you guys want from Sadamm Hussian? Arafat sent his condolances. Does one person on the board believe him? I guess my question is would you rather Iraq lie and say they are sorry or have them say nothing? I think I will stick to the latter.

3. I bet if an Iraqi plane of civilians crashed, 99% of the board would be horrified and say the civilians aren't our really enemies. But you know there would be some moron who would celebrate saying an Iraqi is an Iraqi. Should non-Americans then quickly condemn the United States as a whole? I realize Skydog that you were referring to the two people, but some of the other responses aren't making that clear.

[kcchief19]

Don't take this the wrong way -- I'm as gung-ho American as anybody. But I am also practical.

Why would an Iraqi make comments like that? I think there are two primary reasons:
1) You hate your enemy. Anybody ever ask a WWII or Vietnam War veteran their thoughts about Asians? You'll often get a similar response. I have talked to plenty of people who have said they don't care how many Iraqis die as long as we get Hussein out. There is a VERY fine line between taking joy in someone dying and not caring if they die. To me, there is no line. Both thoughts are wrong.
2) What do you think would happen to these poor shlubs if Reuters quoted them as saying they felt behind and were praying for the victims? Gee, you don't think there might be a firing squad in their future, do you?

There are reasons for anti-American feelings in the world. We can't bury our head in the sand and think that we haven't done anything that might piss other people off. One of our biggest crimes is hypocrisy.

We chastise Iraqis for taking joy in the death of Americans.

If it happened when Hitler died, I have never seen the photos.

Haven't seen the photos? We were dancing in the streets on VE and VJ days. There are plenty of photos of it too, many of them in textbooks. You can argue that we were celebrating the end of the war, but does it make any sense to you to be dancing in the streets knowing that we just nuked 100,000 or more people to death?

I'm not justifying the comments of anyone who takes pleasure in the destruction of Columbia. But I think we should be careful criticizing others for doing the same damn things we did.

[mrushh]

Psych 101. Human nature section.

What do you think they are taught in school?
What do you think they hear on TV (if they have one) or on the radio?
What do you think is the daily news in the paper?
"Americans suck. They are to blame."

If you live any of hundreds of places in the world , your perspective might be different, too.
It is, in A sense, like slavery, in that the strong try to rule the weak, and will do whatever to keep themselves the Strong, and the weak, the Weak. It is, unfortunately, human nature as we have come to be.
Being way older than most of you (check the bottom of the poll--that is me), maybe my perspective has grayed a bit in terms of USA being the Be-All-End-All of world righteousness. Or maybe I'm getting senile, who knows.

[sabotai]

Let's nto forget this is the media, afterall. Do you think stories of how some Iraqis expressing sorrow over this will get hits or sell newspapers? No, of course not. Iraqis saying it is a good thing will get hits and sell newspapers.

I'm not saying all Iraqis except these two liked it, but let's be real here. THe news will reports what sells. Iraqis hating americans sells. So what better way to sell than to find some Iraqis who thought this was a good thing.

[DeToxRox]

I don't care how this makes me sound.. But here goes.

Who cares what Iraq has to say?

They are lead by a blind faith.

I'm not a relegious person, so I am biased but..

Who really cares what a group of people has to say when they committ murders for a person that can't be seen, can't be spoken too, can't be sensed... Basically, isn't there?

There's only one God, and as we all know, thats Lemmy Kilmeister.. *Airheads was just on a few hours ago..*

[sabotai]

I love that movie.

Trick questin, Lemmy is God!

Just priceless.

[Vince]

To clarify, I wasn't trying to say that I disagreed with or thought that your post was wrong, SkyDog. I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment. But I want to be as sure as I can that the sentiment is warranted...I don't want to slip up and categorize all of Iraq as heartless bastards that celebrate when something bad happens to us Americans.

This is that fine line between generalization and stereotype...I don't think it's fair to say that all of Iraq is like that, but based upon what we have seen through the media and such, it seems to me that a fair portion of the people in these countries celebrate when 'the enemy' dies (moreso than do in the US). What I worry about is that this preconception, that more people act like this in Iraq than do in the United States, is something that the media and/or the government is promoting, to make us look like the good guys, and them like the bad guys, when in fact we are no better than them.

Media and/or government hiding the truth...conspiracy theory? Perhaps...maybe I'm just too set in my belief that human nature is inherently good to be able to comprehend the hatred a people can feel for the United States. Don't get me wrong, I'm a history major, and for many a class I've listened to the crap we have put other countries through, and so I do realize what people feel about our country. But I don't think that negative feeling can spread all the way to people dying...I mean, pardon my french, but celebrating when people die is f***ed up.

[ISiddiqui]

Religious fundamentalists disgust me.

Then go off about religious fundies .

Iraq has always been a secular state since independance.

[Fritz]

I wonder how long before people start hawking debris on e-bay?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by Fritz
I wonder how long before people start hawking debris on e-bay?

You're too late to wonder, that started yesterday.

http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/new...2shutebay.html