A developer's question

Gary Gorski · 02-19-2004, 09:51 AM

hey everyone - I don't know how many TPB fans we have here (but I hope there are some) but I was reading some of the reviews and certainly the biggest area of improvement seems to be needed in the interface. For anyone who's played TPB, I'd appreciate some feedback on how you think the interface could be made better. I am sure that it can be improved, but this was my first game and I'm looking for feedback.

If you didn't try out TPB then feel free to chime in with what you think makes a good interface - maybe some things you've seen in other games that you like and makes it easy to navigate around. I surely will be making more games in the future so I thought I'd take this opportunity now to learn some more and try and improve for the next ones. Thanks for anyone who wants to put their two cents in on this.

cthomer5000 · 02-19-2004, 10:10 AM

"Good Luck, Mr. Gorski"

Ben E Lou · 02-19-2004, 10:55 AM

I haven't tried out TPB yet (but I intend to at SOME point--so many enjoyable text sims, so little free time), but in general I'd say the following:

1. WHEN I AM ON A DECISION-MAKING SCREEN, I WANT TO HAVE AS MUCH OF THE INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE AVAILABLE RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME TO MAKE THAT DECISION.

Nothing is as frustrating/annoying to me as having to set depth charts/starting lineups/active rosters/send down to minors/etc. and having to click on Player A, check two or three different screens on his player card, write down or remember the pertinent info, go back to the depth chart/etc. screen, click on Player B, look at his information, write it down or remember the pertinent info, then to the same for Player C.

I'll give my idea of an ideal decision-making screen. Take the TPF offensive and defensive screens (pictured below), and add the following (there should be room for these)

years remaining on contract
change each rating to "6/9" or the like to represent current/future
make it sortable on every field

Left-clicking on a player takes you to his player card, of course, but have right-clicking give the gamer a windows-style drop-down menu with each of the following options:

cut
renegotiate
make inactive
make active (either this or "make inactive" would be greyed out of course)
place on IR (for football, disabled list for baseball, whatever it is called for basketball if there is such a thing)
set as starter (this might have to be limited to making him a starter at his primary position..but it would help a lot in any game. He becomes the starter, and whoever was listed as starter becomes the #1 backup, and everyone else drops down a slot on the depth chart if necessary)

Each of the drop-downs would either perform the function discussed, or (in the case of renegotiation, for example) take you to the screen that you need to perform that function.

Voila. There you have it. The gamer could then make the vast majority of the decisions that he needs to make from one place.

Better Ones Out There in This Area: FOF2K4 Depth Chart screens (pictures of player cards eligible for each position, with ability to cycle through), OOTP5 lineup/pitch staff screens (can view by ratings, and drag and drop into lineup slot desired)

Most Improved: TPF Active/Inactive Screen (added "3.5/4.0" after player names to give some sense of player's value without clicking on every card--this screen was a nighmare before that addition)

Needs Work: TPF Depth Chart screens (need to add that "3.5/4.0" type star rating)

2. IT NEEDS TO BE INTUITIVE FOR A FIRST-TIME PLAYER

Icons are fine, but sometimes as a first-timer I'm unclear as to what each little icon does. Rollover mouse help is a plus, but a little "what to do next" e-mail is probably ideal. I'd even say that you should have a popup screen whenver starting a new career that tells you to check your e-mail for instructions. I remember my first game of FBCB. I had no *clue* what to do, and it didn't help that when clicking the "coach round" button or whatever, nothing happens in your first year. I think they've added an e-mail that does this. FOF can be non-user friendly for the first-timer as well.

3. EVERYWHERE A PLAYER'S NAME IS LISTED, I WANT TO SEE HIS PLAYER CARD

FOF2K4 is right now the best at this. Whenever career records, league leaders, etc. show up, I want to know more about the player. 'Nuff said on this.

4. ABILITY TO "REMEMBER" SORTS LIKE EXCEL

OOTP5 is the worst in this (but I think there are other culprits as well). When I look at a list of hundreds of prospects, I might want to sort first by contact, then by power, to give me a list of all the "Good" power hitters, but I also want them sorted next by the previous sort, in this case "Contact." I should get a list of hitters like this:

Name Contact Power
Jones Exc Good
Smith Good Good
Johnson Good Good
Lee Avg Good

Instead, I get the "good" power guys, with a seemingly-random sort of the previous sort. You get the idea.

5. ABILITY TO SORT BY EVERY FIELD

Baseball Mogul has NO ability to sort my bench players by position, and the last time I checked, TPF doesn't let you sort on games played in the career stats. There are other examples, but these are the first two that come to mind.

6. SPECIFIC SEARCH FEATURES

FBCB has a problem in this area, and some others as well. For example, if I'm coaching a really bad Savannah State team, I'm not interested in looking at recruits who have "Very High" interest in me in the early-going. If they have "Very High" interest in me, then they suck. Further, I can only search for one position at time. This is particularly annoying when I want to recruit a post player, and I don't care if he's a PF or C, or I need a SF or SG, and it doesn't really matter which because I have a 6'6" red-shirt freshman who can play either position. In this case, the gamer needs to have the ability to search for "PF or C", "Average or High Interest", "Southeast or East" (if I'm in a border state).

There. Now that I've said something negative about the interface of virtually every text sim I own, I guess I'll close.

--Ben

Blade6119 · 02-19-2004, 11:10 AM

damn...i forgot that sky-dog was one of our longposters on the board..We havent had a good ol member banning in a few weeks for him to defend

condors · 02-19-2004, 11:31 AM

having played the game(alot) what i would like added to the interface

the ability to "see" the scout review, talent level, work ethic, age for all my players in one screen, every off season i make this list myself (also put in contract information) to determine the future of my team.

also a feature would be nice is to get a report of the effects of your off season training.

by the way i really enjoy the game

Gary Gorski · 02-19-2004, 11:48 AM

thanks for the replies guys - great suggestions and ideas as always. Looking forward to seeing more ideas too!

Cap Ologist · 02-19-2004, 01:28 PM

My biggest gripe is the time it takes to get to the roster screens. Maybe I'm missing a short cut, but the only way that I've found to get there is to go the teams window, then click on my team, then rosters. It would be nice to get there quicker. Another nice feature on the draft, would be to have the cpu recommend the best available player, right now they recommend the best pg, sg, etc, but it would be nice to see which one of those three the computer thinks is the best. Sometimes, I don't really have a pressing need for any of the positions, and would just like to add the best player to my team. Other than that, I've enjoyed the game.

sabotai · 02-19-2004, 02:49 PM

Quote:

3. EVERYWHERE A PLAYER'S NAME IS LISTED, I WANT TO SEE HIS PLAYER CARD

FOF2K4 is right now the best at this. Whenever career records, league leaders, etc. show up, I want to know more about the player. 'Nuff said on this.

*Cough*CM*Cough* ...been doing it for years..

SOMEONE was going to say it, might as well been me.

kingnebwsu · 02-19-2004, 02:57 PM

The sorting thing by multiple categories is essential. It's one of my biggest peeves of OOTP.

I personally like Ctrl shortcuts to get to different screens. Like Ctrl+T for the Team Screen or something. That in addition to other click-options would be nice.

The less clicks there are, the better. Fit as much info on one screen as possible, without making it cluttered or having font that's too small.

Too tired to post more now...g'luck to ya

G'luck to ya.

druez · 02-19-2004, 02:59 PM

CM has the best interface around. I would like to second what skydog said, I want a roster screen where I can do everything.

I want to be able to set my lineup, activate and deactivate players. In TPF for example, I have to goto to many screens to do what I want.

One thing I don't like in TDCB or TPB, is the way you set your depth charts. I want to be able to sort my players and look at all their ratings or stats and from the same screen set my lineup.

I also like to have alot of filtering options. I want to be able to sort by whaterver I want or multiple things. Like I might want to see who has the highest inside game and offensive rebounding. So, if I sort by both of those the players would be listed in order by those two skills averaged from highest to lowest.

Ben E Lou · 02-19-2004, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabotai

*Cough*CM*Cough* ...been doing it for years..

SOMEONE was going to say it, might as well been me.

I said among game *I* own.

Gave kickball a shot, couldn't get into it.

Easy Mac · 02-19-2004, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Is that an actual screenshot from a real game (I assume TPF)? Man, I couldn't play a game that was set up like that.

Ben E Lou · 02-19-2004, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Is that an actual screenshot from a real game (I assume TPF)? Man, I couldn't play a game that was set up like that.

One of many screens.

Troll · 02-19-2004, 03:42 PM

all it is doing is putting all the rating right in front of you. i'll admit that IMHO TPF and TPB dont have good interfaces. I dont like how they set up the squares in the bottom right? left? corner. I just clicked on one in a hope it brings up what I would like it to. I haven't played either outside of the demo, but I just couldnt get into them. I much prefer the "less professional" setup that FOF has. Download the game and study the interface is my advice.

mauchow · 02-19-2004, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Is that an actual screenshot from a real game (I assume TPF)? Man, I couldn't play a game that was set up like that.

Easy Mac. That's probably my least used page all of TPF. You're right it looks bad. But like I said, it's not an important page at all.

maximus · 02-19-2004, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

"Good Luck, Mr. Gorski"

cthomer5000 is a moron.

Tasan · 02-19-2004, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Left-clicking on a player takes you to his player card, of course, but have right-clicking give the gamer a windows-style drop-down menu with each of the following options:

cut
renegotiate
make inactive
make active (either this or "make inactive" would be greyed out of course)
place on IR (for football, disabled list for baseball, whatever it is called for basketball if there is such a thing)
set as starter (this might have to be limited to making him a starter at his primary position..but it would help a lot in any game. He becomes the starter, and whoever was listed as starter becomes the #1 backup, and everyone else drops down a slot on the depth chart if necessary)

I've never understood why designers forget about the right click, its so handy for games like this. The set as a starter would work for basketball. You could mouse over set as starter and it expands to the 5 major positions, where you select where you want this guy starting.

02-19-2004, 10:55 AM	#3
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	I haven't tried out TPB yet (but I intend to at SOME point--so many enjoyable text sims, so little free time), but in general I'd say the following: 1. WHEN I AM ON A DECISION-MAKING SCREEN, I WANT TO HAVE AS MUCH OF THE INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE AVAILABLE RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME TO MAKE THAT DECISION. Nothing is as frustrating/annoying to me as having to set depth charts/starting lineups/active rosters/send down to minors/etc. and having to click on Player A, check two or three different screens on his player card, write down or remember the pertinent info, go back to the depth chart/etc. screen, click on Player B, look at his information, write it down or remember the pertinent info, then to the same for Player C. I'll give my idea of an ideal decision-making screen. Take the TPF offensive and defensive screens (pictured below), and add the following (there should be room for these) years remaining on contract change each rating to "6/9" or the like to represent current/future make it sortable on every field Left-clicking on a player takes you to his player card, of course, but have right-clicking give the gamer a windows-style drop-down menu with each of the following options: cut renegotiate make inactive make active (either this or "make inactive" would be greyed out of course) place on IR (for football, disabled list for baseball, whatever it is called for basketball if there is such a thing) set as starter (this might have to be limited to making him a starter at his primary position..but it would help a lot in any game. He becomes the starter, and whoever was listed as starter becomes the #1 backup, and everyone else drops down a slot on the depth chart if necessary) Each of the drop-downs would either perform the function discussed, or (in the case of renegotiation, for example) take you to the screen that you need to perform that function. Voila. There you have it. The gamer could then make the vast majority of the decisions that he needs to make from one place. Better Ones Out There in This Area: FOF2K4 Depth Chart screens (pictures of player cards eligible for each position, with ability to cycle through), OOTP5 lineup/pitch staff screens (can view by ratings, and drag and drop into lineup slot desired) Most Improved: TPF Active/Inactive Screen (added "3.5/4.0" after player names to give some sense of player's value without clicking on every card--this screen was a nighmare before that addition) Needs Work: TPF Depth Chart screens (need to add that "3.5/4.0" type star rating) 2. IT NEEDS TO BE INTUITIVE FOR A FIRST-TIME PLAYER Icons are fine, but sometimes as a first-timer I'm unclear as to what each little icon does. Rollover mouse help is a plus, but a little "what to do next" e-mail is probably ideal. I'd even say that you should have a popup screen whenver starting a new career that tells you to check your e-mail for instructions. I remember my first game of FBCB. I had no clue what to do, and it didn't help that when clicking the "coach round" button or whatever, nothing happens in your first year. I think they've added an e-mail that does this. FOF can be non-user friendly for the first-timer as well. 3. EVERYWHERE A PLAYER'S NAME IS LISTED, I WANT TO SEE HIS PLAYER CARD FOF2K4 is right now the best at this. Whenever career records, league leaders, etc. show up, I want to know more about the player. 'Nuff said on this. 4. ABILITY TO "REMEMBER" SORTS LIKE EXCEL OOTP5 is the worst in this (but I think there are other culprits as well). When I look at a list of hundreds of prospects, I might want to sort first by contact, then by power, to give me a list of all the "Good" power hitters, but I also want them sorted next by the previous sort, in this case "Contact." I should get a list of hitters like this: Name Contact Power Jones Exc Good Smith Good Good Johnson Good Good Lee Avg Good Instead, I get the "good" power guys, with a seemingly-random sort of the previous sort. You get the idea. 5. ABILITY TO SORT BY EVERY FIELD Baseball Mogul has NO ability to sort my bench players by position, and the last time I checked, TPF doesn't let you sort on games played in the career stats. There are other examples, but these are the first two that come to mind. 6. SPECIFIC SEARCH FEATURES FBCB has a problem in this area, and some others as well. For example, if I'm coaching a really bad Savannah State team, I'm not interested in looking at recruits who have "Very High" interest in me in the early-going. If they have "Very High" interest in me, then they suck. Further, I can only search for one position at time. This is particularly annoying when I want to recruit a post player, and I don't care if he's a PF or C, or I need a SF or SG, and it doesn't really matter which because I have a 6'6" red-shirt freshman who can play either position. In this case, the gamer needs to have the ability to search for "PF or C", "Average or High Interest", "Southeast or East" (if I'm in a border state). There. Now that I've said something negative about the interface of virtually every text sim I own, I guess I'll close. --Ben __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

02-19-2004, 11:10 AM	#4
Blade6119 Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona	damn...i forgot that sky-dog was one of our longposters on the board..We havent had a good ol member banning in a few weeks for him to defend __________________ *Underachievement* The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower. *Despair* It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. *Demotivation* Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of the unhappy people. http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

02-19-2004, 11:48 AM	#6
Gary Gorski Wolverine Studios Join Date: Oct 2003	thanks for the replies guys - great suggestions and ideas as always. Looking forward to seeing more ideas too! __________________ Wolverine Studios http://www.wolverinestudios.com

02-19-2004, 02:59 PM	#10
druez Banned Join Date: Nov 2003	CM has the best interface around. I would like to second what skydog said, I want a roster screen where I can do everything. I want to be able to set my lineup, activate and deactivate players. In TPF for example, I have to goto to many screens to do what I want. One thing I don't like in TDCB or TPB, is the way you set your depth charts. I want to be able to sort my players and look at all their ratings or stats and from the same screen set my lineup. I also like to have alot of filtering options. I want to be able to sort by whaterver I want or multiple things. Like I might want to see who has the highest inside game and offensive rebounding. So, if I sort by both of those the players would be listed in order by those two skills averaged from highest to lowest. Last edited by druez : 02-19-2004 at 03:06 PM.

02-19-2004, 03:42 PM	#14
Troll H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Dec 2003	all it is doing is putting all the rating right in front of you. i'll admit that IMHO TPF and TPB dont have good interfaces. I dont like how they set up the squares in the bottom right? left? corner. I just clicked on one in a hope it brings up what I would like it to. I haven't played either outside of the demo, but I just couldnt get into them. I much prefer the "less professional" setup that FOF has. Download the game and study the interface is my advice. Last edited by Troll : 02-19-2004 at 03:43 PM.

02-19-2004, 11:31 AM	#5
condors College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	having played the game(alot) what i would like added to the interface the ability to "see" the scout review, talent level, work ethic, age for all my players in one screen, every off season i make this list myself (also put in contract information) to determine the future of my team. also a feature would be nice is to get a report of the effects of your off season training. by the way i really enjoy the game

02-19-2004, 01:28 PM	#7
Cap Ologist College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Flower Mound, TX	My biggest gripe is the time it takes to get to the roster screens. Maybe I'm missing a short cut, but the only way that I've found to get there is to go the teams window, then click on my team, then rosters. It would be nice to get there quicker. Another nice feature on the draft, would be to have the cpu recommend the best available player, right now they recommend the best pg, sg, etc, but it would be nice to see which one of those three the computer thinks is the best. Sometimes, I don't really have a pressing need for any of the positions, and would just like to add the best player to my team. Other than that, I've enjoyed the game.

02-19-2004, 02:57 PM	#9
kingnebwsu College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ohio	The sorting thing by multiple categories is essential. It's one of my biggest peeves of OOTP. I personally like Ctrl shortcuts to get to different screens. Like Ctrl+T for the Team Screen or something. That in addition to other click-options would be nice. The less clicks there are, the better. Fit as much info on one screen as possible, without making it cluttered or having font that's too small. Too tired to post more now...g'luck to ya G'luck to ya.

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