Injury Frequency in Fourth Edition?

[TestAmenT]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but are the injuries in FOF4 too much? I mean its not uncommon to have my whole Starting team to be out with injuries.

I'll look at teh Computer AI's rosters and they have just as many Injuries. Whats the deal with this?

[TestAmenT]

Anyone have any idea why the injuries are so high?

[henry296]

In terms of numbers it is pretty much in line with the NFL. The severity might be a bit strong. Remember, questionable and probable players can play.

Todd

[MizzouRah]

Without jinxing myself, injuries seem right on, IMO. I've had years with tons of injuries and years with little injuries. I usually play all probable players and try to sit the questionable ones.

It also helps to keep the FA pool a little slimmer.

When the flu hits your team, you know it's going to be a bad week.


Todd

[TestAmenT]

Hmm...well I play the guys on "Probable" and "Questionable" as well..but EVERYTIME I do that...they get injured the very next game seriously.

I don't see this as realistic at all. The majority of my starters only start like 10 games a season because everyone is injured. I don't find this realistic at all..

[sabotai]

That's very odd. I have not heard anyone say that the majority of their starts are only getting about 10 games a season because of injuries. If this is an every season thing, you might want to check what your coach's Avoid Injury rating is.

Other than that, I don't know. I definatly have not had the amount of injuries you say you've had, and I haven't heard anyone else say they've had that many either.

[TestAmenT]

Hmmm...Okay...I'll check in to that. Maybe its just something I am doing wrong.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[dacman]

I don't necessarily play Probable or Questionable guys. Maybe it makes no difference, but if a guy is Questionable with a tweaked hammy, broken finger, bruised thigh or sternum, or some other nick and ding type of injury, I play him. If he's questionable coming off knee surgery, torn achilles, torn muscle, hyperextended knee, etc. I wait until he is completely healthy again. I rarely have guys get "reinjured" that way.

Also, I've had lots of injuries if I go more than 30 minutes below the initial recommended amount of training room time during training camp regardless of the coach's injury aviodance rating. Can't remember how much time that is off the top of my head.

[iceberg414]

weight room is a big factor from what i can tell. too much time is too hard for the players? also i think older players suffer from too much weight room.

[stkelly52]

Also, are you using the latest update? I understand that Jim toned down the injuries a bit.

[Buzzbee]

Some things that affect injuries that you might want to check.

1) Coach rating. If your coach is poor in Avoid Injury, you're going to have more injuries than one who is excellent.

2) Training room time. Too little and your guys are out of shape and prone to injuries.

3) Turf condition. Poor turf condition can lead to more injuries.

4) Age of players. If you team contains a large proportion of aging veterans, the likelyhood of injuries is going to be greater.

4) Random factor? Sometimes the randomness of the game is going to result in seasons of higher injuries. But over time, they should tend to even out, if the factors above remain somewhat consistent.

[TestAmenT]

I am using the latest update.

Again..thanks for all the suggestions. Hopefully these things you mentioned will help lower the injury rate. My cousin,who also has the game,is having the same problem as I am...and we both thought it was the game.

I'll have to tell him about the factors involved.


Thanks again.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Another thought would be to lower the "play injured players" variable in the game plan menu to 10-30.

[astralhaze]

This could be just a coincidence, but I don't think so since it seems to happen every single time. If a player is out for, say, 4 weeks and then you insert him back in to the lineup again anytime before he is completely healthy, he gets hurt again, with few exceptions. If the initial injury is mild, say probable for 2, this is not the case at all. It is only when they have been out for any period of time and then you put them back in before they are completely healthy. This is not scientific and I have not done a study or anything, but it seems to happen every single time so I doubt it is just a coinsidence. I hesitate to call it a bug because I don't know if it was intended or not, but it does appear to be all too real, like festivus.

[Leonidas]

Compared to other sports sims I think FOF4 does the best job I have seen on the injuries. Most games underdo it. Follow your favorite team closely and on any given week you should see at least two or three normal starters out. By the end of any given season a team can count itself fortunate if 18 of the original 22 are still playing.

I have also found certain players to be injury prone throughout their careers. I currently have a DE with an 80/80 rating, but the guy never starts more than 10 games a year. His contract is due and I'm inclined to just let him go. I don't see it worth shelling out $30 mil plus for 4 years on a guy who only starts half his games, regardless of the ratings. I find the challenge of the injuries in FOF4 refreshing from most sims.

[nilodor]

I had one year bad enough that i had to quit my career. I had 13 players out and took up enough cap space that i could not get to 46 active players, even with releasing all my other players and signing rookies but my guess is that is extremelly rare and other than that i think injuries are in line.

[Braggadocioussss]

I have a perenial pro-bowl full back who hasn't played more than 5 games in a season for the last 6 years. He gets hurt...every...single...year. Of course the same thing goes for my Flanker, and my MLB, and my RDT, and my LDT, and my RE...

Well maybe serious injuries do happen a little too often. Oh well. I'm usualy lucky to get out of the preseason with 16 starters not out until mid-late season.

[TestAmenT]

I have a perenial pro-bowl full back who hasn't played more than 5 games in a season for the last 6 years. He gets hurt...every...single...year. Of course the same thing goes for my Flanker, and my MLB, and my RDT, and my LDT, and my RE...

Well maybe serious injuries do happen a little too often. Oh well. I'm usualy lucky to get out of the preseason with 16 starters not out until mid-late season.

Exactly my point. I mean lets take a look at the two Super Bowl teams....how many of the Starters for both teams played that game? Almost all of them. Like Jerry Rice for instance...the guy has played years without bad injuries. Yet in FOF4...its IMPOSSIBLE NOT to have everyone of your guys,no matter how high their injury tolerance,injured at least once.

I like to see injuries...don't get me wrong...there are injuries in Pro Football..no doubt about it...but I think they went a little overboard on this in the "game".

Just my 2 cents though.

[nilodor]

I think the problem is, once a player gets hurt that first time their resistance to injury becomes signifigantly lower. Same for each subsequent time until they basically just sit on IR. It would be nice to be able to see the injury rating in the game but it might be too much of an advantage. Maybe an injury history for a certain player?

[jamesUMD]

I have noticed that certain types of injuries are more likely to be aggravated if a player is placed back in the line-up befor ehe is sufficiently healed. Thins like sprained necks, knee injuries, come to mind. I don't mind the frequency, but I do not like the severity. I often have guys get hurt, that once healed, have severly reduced scores.

[Bonegavel]

With FOF4, I have found injury frequency ranging from fun to downright frustrating. By fun, I mean it forces me to play backups that I otherwise wouldn't have. Or, I have to go FA hunting. By frustrating I mean, I have to cut half my players and sign all scrubs just to field a team.

I am all for injuries, but once you list the injuries in the roster screen and the list of the injured players goes below the viewable area, that is too many.

This subject has been covered extensively before, but it is still a problem. I can easily believe the person who posted that they had to scrub a career because they couldn't afford to sign anyone.

I can see a Seattle Mike Holmgren season once or twice in a career but it happens a lot more than that. I would even accept a cheap way out and have the code stop applying injuries to a team that suffers X-number of injuries.

While an important part of the game, it can get out-of-hand.

[Bonegavel]

dola


I think FOF should stand for Fun Or Frustrating.

[Syrinx]

I have found that it feels realistic. But I have around 18-20 of my starters play all season. There are a few players that seam to be injury prone. But I have only missed a few games in their careers. I did have my starting RB Probably with a hamstring injury one entire year, but he still started all 16 games that season. My DB’s seem to be less injury prone, but no position has been more injury prone.

Injuries in my most recent 2 seasons combined:
Starting QB missed 3 games
Starting RB missed 0 games (in his entire 7 year all-pro career!)
Starting FB missed 0 games
Starting TE missed 3 games
Starting FL missed 2 games
Starting SE missed 1 game (only 1 season)
My entire offensive line (excluding the LT who just retired due to a major injury) missed 0 games!
Starting LDE missed 12 games (has become really injury prone over the past 6 years)
Starting LDT missed 2 games
Starting RDT missed 0 games (only 1 season)
Starting RDE missed 0 games
Starting SLB 0
Starting MLB 3 (although he was Questionable for at least 3 others he played in)
Starting WLB missed 1 game (only 1 season)
My entire defensive backfield (excluding the FS who just retired due to old age) missed 0 games!

However in the first 4 or 5 seasons of this 14 year career I had Starters on Injured Reserve left and right, including one player who was out for 2 whole seasons, and I was stuck with him under contract the entire time!

4 Things I do that seem to help:
I mark as many of my starters as possible Inactive during the pre-season, to make sure they start the regular season healthy.
I always hire a coach with at least a Good rating in Avoid Injury.
I never reduce the allotted Weight Room time in Training Camp
Never play a person coming off of a long term injury until they have only 1 week left of recovery (and are also listed as Probable)

[Syrinx]

Originally posted by jamesUMD
I don't mind the frequency, but I do not like the severity. I often have guys get hurt, that once healed, have severly reduced scores.

That's life though! Many players retire due to massive injuries that they never recover from. RB’s like Icky Woods, Bo Jackson and Terrell Davis come to mind.

In FOF I've noticed that you have to cut some of them yourself, since the ones that were super stars will gladly stay on for that 10 mil. salary they would have earned. I have had some of my super studs go out too early in their careers with ACL injuries. It cost me Chris Samuels in 2004 and Jason Taylor (who I had recently stolen in Free Agency from the Dolphins) in 2006 of my current career.

[cuervo72]

Hmm...I had a season where 2 TE's went down for the year in the first couple of games (at least, might have even been the preseason), and another (or maybe it was the same one?) where two line backers were lost for the rest of the season and the FOLLOWING season. Oh, also the 15 week injury to my 81/81 OT the last preseason game (he'd been inactive until then).

[Leonidas]

[[b]Exactly my point. I mean lets take a look at the two Super Bowl teams....how many of the Starters for both teams played that game? Almost all of them. Like Jerry Rice for instance...the guy has played years without bad injuries. Yet in FOF4...its IMPOSSIBLE NOT to have everyone of your guys,no matter how high their injury tolerance,injured at least once.

Teams that make the Super Bowl are usually the exception, the teams that managed to go through the season relatively unscathed. Look at the 2001 Miami Dolphins. They lost three starting left OT's for the year one after the other, an All-Pro DT for half the year, an All-Pro WR for the whole year (who ended up retiring as a result), another starting WR played the entire season hurt, and the list goes on from their. That's just one team I can think of. It happens all the time in pro football. The few quality teams that stay healthy make the Super Bowl, the majority don't, and they lose.

Compared to other sports sims I have played, this game is far and away the most realistic WRT injuries. If you don't want injuries, go to Madden and play in the non-injury mode.

[jamesUMD]

Syrinx,
I know that sort of thing happens in real life. I'm saying that the frequency of severe injuries (permanant reduction in scores) is what I think happens too frequently.

They are a fact of life, but I don't think the career ending, and career diminishing injuries are as common in real life as the game. Watch other teams superstars through the team scouting screen from year to year.

I look at my opponents starters before every game. It is way too common that their stars have obviously been stricken with massive injuries that have robbed them of their scores, where they were potential hall of famers or all pros. I had Jerimiah Trotter go out for like 96 weeks with Post Concussion Stress Disorder. When he finally returned, his scores has dropped from all 70+, to the teens. I could see him becoming more prone to injury, but he was practically in a wheelchair.

[Leonidas]

Actually one of the coolest aspects I found in the game is how players will drop off out of nowhere, much like Kordell Stewart or Eddie George. I had a DT who was rated like 79/86, then on the last year of his contract, at year five, he dropped to a 56/56. Other sims don't do this until the guy gets old. For whatever reason, it happens in real life and really makes one take a pause when considering those long term contracts.

I also have not seen a high degree of star players ending careers on injuries. I thought the patch did a good job taking care of that. In my experience it has not been disproportionate.

[nilodor]

Leonidas,

Somewhere else on this board there was a draft analysis thread and in there it was discussed that after 5 years players could bust. Think of it as, your scout sees this player with inflated potential and they just realize he is never going to fufill it so his ratings drop.