Kitna: NFL Comeback Player of the Year

[korme]

Good for him.

NFL awards Kitna

ESPN sez:
CINCINNATI -- Jon Kitna's whole career has been about comebacks.

Written off in college, he made it to the NFL as an undrafted free agent. He led Seattle to the playoffs, only to lose his job. He came to Cincinnati as a starter and lost his job again.

Now, he has pulled off the most unexpected comeback of all.

With a Heisman Trophy winner waiting to take his job, Kitna led the Bengals to a long-awaited resurgence, keeping Cincinnati in contention until the final game.

On Friday, he was honored as The Associated Press NFL Comeback Player of the Year.

"My whole life, I never had anything handed to me," Kitna said. "Nobody thought I was 'the guy.' I was always a pretty good athlete, but I was never one that people clamored about or anything like that."

Kitna got them talking during the Bengals' turnaround season. He eliminated his propensity for mistakes and led the Bengals out of their 12-year run as the league's woeful team.

"Finally people started to see our team as something serious," Kitna said.

Kitna received eight votes to seven for Dallas quarterback Quincy Carter and six for Baltimore tackle Orlando Brown. Carolina running back Stephen Davis and Kansas City safety Jerome Woods had five each.

When the season started, No. 1 draft pick Carson Palmer was waiting to take the job that Kitna had lost at the outset of the 2002 season, then reclaimed by default after Gus Frerotte and Akili Smith failed.

The Bengals, under first-year coach Marvin Lewis, lost their first three games and entered their bye week at 1-4. That's when Lewis promoted Palmer from the No. 3 quarterback to the backup. Kitna's time as an NFL starter was quickly running out.

"At 0-3 we were at the point -- and he knew it -- that if he kept going 0-for, eventually the decision would be made to let Carson play because the season was going to be a lost season," offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski said.

With his job at stake, Kitna played so well Palmer never got into a game. Kitna was the only NFL quarterback to take every snap this season. He finished second in the AFC with 26 touchdown passes -- three shy of the franchise record -- and had only 15 interceptions, a major break from his mistake-prone past.

Four times, he threw three touchdown passes in a game. Each big game raised his profile and brought the Bengals closer to respectability.

"Think about all of the doubts that people had in Kitna," said receiver Chad Johnson, one of Kitna's most ardent boosters. "Just to see him playing the way he's playing, I'm just loving every last minute of it."

Much of it had to do with getting over a deep hurt. Seattle signed him in 1996 as an undrafted free agent out of Central Washington of the NAIA. He surprised everyone by winning the starting job and taking the Seahawks to the playoffs in 1999.

The next year, coach Mike Holmgren wanted a different style of quarterback. Kitna would soon be gone, but the sting would remain.

From that point, Kitna felt as though his career depended upon every pass. He tried to impress on every snap, leading to mistakes and poor decisions. Early this season, he changed.

"I used to be a more confident person who just played football and would go out and never worry about numbers or what people were saying about me," Kitna said. "I just loved to play the game, and I'd lost that.

"Every year for three or four years, I was hoping I'd do something positive enough to stay in the league for another year, rather than having fun and being positive."

The fun returned. So did the Bengals, who fed off his newfound confidence.

"As he goes, we go," Bratkowski said. "He was a glue, especially on offense."

There's no telling how long Kitna will be in charge. Palmer is itching to play, and Lewis most likely is going to open the job to competition in training camp.

Kitna knows he'll be the backup someday, a role he will embrace when the time comes. For now, he's conceding nothing.

"In this league, very few people are going to have things handed to them," Kitna said. "The majority of people have to fight for it."

[pskov]

When did Kitna 'go away'?

[Chappy]

The day he signed with Cincy.......

[GoSeahawks]

When was he ever here?

[clintl]

How the hell could some like Quincy Carter even be considered, let alone get any votes? He hasn't been in the NFL long enough yet to have a "comeback."

[Primal]

Too bad Palmer will take over.

[Young Drachma]

Originally posted by clintl
How the hell could some like Quincy Carter even be considered, let alone get any votes? He hasn't been in the NFL long enough yet to have a "comeback."

I think the idea is "he sucked and no one cared about him before" and all of sudden, now he's good. Didn't he start a little bit last year?

But yes, I understand the sentiment totally. I think the idea is better defined in baseball and basketball, where you see a guy who had a bad year and then came back and rocked it.

In football, where guys can be MVPs one year and the next year, they can be in the unemployment line, I'm not really sure that its such a static thing.

::Shrug::

[DeToxRox]

And I remember Shorty rambling on about how great Kitna finished out the last half last season, so if that was true, how should he win it?

[DeToxRox]

And to finish it off; Quincy deserves it based on the fact many people thought he might not make the team let alone start.

[Deattribution]

I have the same question as the other person who asked when did he go away? and wasn't Tommy Maddox the winner last year?

Basically this award now rewards mediocrity?

[RendeR]

If you consider Kitna's season mediocre you obviously know about as much about football as a dung beetle does about gourmet food.


Kitna's season, though overshadowed by about 4 superior seasons by other QB's was excellent, he is a player who came into the league, started, was benched, traded, benched again and returned to lead his team and have a pro-bowl quality season.

Comeback player of the year doesn't celebrate mediocrity, it doesn't honor second or third year players who have yet to show up in the NFL, it honors people who have come in and played their hearts out trying to succeeed, been through some shitty seasons and come back to perform at the top of the game.

There isn't another player I can honestly think of this season who deserves the comeback award MORE than Kitna.


and detox, no offense, but you've got to be fucking kidding if you think Carter should even be considered. He didn't come back from anything, he's still a second rate, option-running QB who ought to play arena, not the NFL. he might be a damned good athlete, but he's a lame-duck QB at best.

[DeToxRox]

I didn't phrase my reply right, but I think he's more deserving then Kitna.

Kitna WASN'T BAD last year, Quincy was. He lead the 'Boys to the playoffs.

I dunno who should've won it, but I don't think Kitna deserved it.

[RendeR]

Quincy led the boys to the playoffs? what are you smoking? Their defense is the only reason the boys are in and that'll probably end tomorrow.

[DeToxRox]

Kitna's stats last year..

473 294 62.2 3178 6.72 72 16 16 24/159 29 4 79.1

Kitna's stats this year

520 324 3591 62.3 6.9 26 5.0 15 2.9 82 37/249 87.4

aprox 400 more yards, .1 percent better completion, 10 more TD's, 1 less INT, 8.3 higher rating and he only played 14 games last year.

Tell me how thats a comeback. The awards NOT most improved.

[DeToxRox]

QB's are the team leaders, so he "lead" them there. The games they won he managed well, the games he lost, he didn't.

The D can't score all the points, they need someone to help with that, and without him creating on offense when called upon, they had nothing.

[DeToxRox]

And to close on my stats comparison; had he played all 16 games, he would've had more yards, and thrown nearly as many TD's, but had more INT's.

Still, I just don't see it as comeback player of the year.

[Deattribution]

Originally posted by RendeR
If you consider Kitna's season mediocre you obviously know about as much about football as a dung beetle does about gourmet food.


Kitna's season, though overshadowed by about 4 superior seasons by other QB's was excellent, he is a player who came into the league, started, was benched, traded, benched again and returned to lead his team and have a pro-bowl quality season.

Comeback player of the year doesn't celebrate mediocrity, it doesn't honor second or third year players who have yet to show up in the NFL, it honors people who have come in and played their hearts out trying to succeeed, been through some shitty seasons and come back to perform at the top of the game.

There isn't another player I can honestly think of this season who deserves the comeback award MORE than Kitna.


and detox, no offense, but you've got to be fucking kidding if you think Carter should even be considered. He didn't come back from anything, he's still a second rate, option-running QB who ought to play arena, not the NFL. he might be a damned good athlete, but he's a lame-duck QB at best.

He didn't play mediocre this year, he did all the other previous seasons. He wasn't benched because he was an MVP talent not getting a chance, he was benched because in the previous seasons he didn't preform.

Besides, top of the game would be atleast in the playoffs, actually in the SuperBowl. If you consider having a good season and sitting at home come playoff time at the top of the game, then you know little about football yourself.

And the thing about Carter, he might be second rate, option running qb who ought to play arena, but he's in the playoffs.

He's closer to being top of the game then Kitna will ever get this season. Regardless of the reasons as to why.

At best, the award should be called Most Improved Player instead of Comeback Player.

Hopefully he will substain this level next year, and a team will get a very solid QB though. Till then, great for him for becoming the most IMPROVED player in the league.

[RendeR]

OK, I give up, you've thrown so many numbers at me that I absolutely MUST be completely idiotically wrong in my belif, so tell me hot shot:


How does Carter rate the award? He hasn't been down anywhere to come back from, he's what, 3rd year? 2nd? he's done nothing more exciting than he did last season either.

Then if not them, then who?

The fact of the matter is, at the end of Last season Kitna was still considered a 3rd rate QB on a shit team, this year he was a top level QB who's play elevated his team to nearly the playoffs. That is in fact a turnaround/Comeback for a CAREER NFL player, someone who's had a career.

But of course your numbers aren't wrong, the numbers define everything and the attitude the league holds about a player means absolutely nothing in such cases.

fuck me....stats are not god and teh comeback player of the year isn't JUST about statistics. its about a player climbing from the shithole he created of his career back into the top tiers of his peers.

No one else in the league this year came close to the comeback Kitna went through.

[RendeR]

Umm, as your oh so perfect statistics showed, he isn't imprved from last year, not immensly, so your whole "most improved" line is already proven, BY YOU no less, to be incorrect.


Thank you, please drive through.

[RendeR]

And again, you seem misinformed, kitna took the seahawks to the playoffs early in his career, then went to shit, again, of course, according to you this is irrelevent, and only making the playoffs warrents any such real award from the NFL.

[Deattribution]

Originally posted by RendeR
Umm, as your oh so perfect statistics showed, he isn't imprved from last year, not immensly, so your whole "most improved" line is already proven, BY YOU no less, to be incorrect.


Thank you, please drive through.

Talk about arrogance, you're reading post from two different people, thinking they're the same person and trying to be smart about it when your totally blind, literally.

DeToxRoxDVHStyle never said he was the most improved, I did, and i'm not him.

I didn't post any stats.

[RendeR]

You are correct, I read the names too quickly, and as they are similar when skimming the page I made an error.


So sorry.

your both still full of shit.

Lets look at this fact:

previous 2 seasons the same cowboys with the same Quincy 5-11 each season

this season same cowboys, same quincy 10-6

now is this because any one of the players was SO much better? no, its because they got a real freaking Head Coach who didn't have his head up his ass and knew how to call a game.

No matter my errors, your labels or his stats, the facts are the same, Carter doesn't rate consideration, Kitna IS what the award is about, and it boggles my mind how completely self absorbed Dallas fans can really be when they think they're being slighted when a "feel good" award isn't given to their player.


holy shit man.

[DeToxRox]

You just said Kitna was considered 3rd QB on a bad team.

QUINCY WAS CONSIDERED MY SOME TO NOT MAKE A BAD TEAM HIMSELF.

I didn't say he deserved it but you're canceling all your points out.

Dude, seriously, chill out.

That'd make them in the same freakin' boat. Kitna IS NOT coming back from injury or whatever. HE JUST LEAD A TEAM TO A BETTER RECORD THEN LAST YEAR.

This isn't like Warner coming out of the AFL to win a superbowl, he just started the games like he did a majority of last year.

Like I said, this award isn't called MOST IMPROVED, ergo, HE DOES NOT DESERVE IT.

[DeToxRox]

Render, are you kidding me?

HOW MANY GAMES DID HE START EACH SEASON?

Kitna started 3/4ths of last year and played in 14 games.

God dude, seriously.

[Deattribution]

Originally posted by RendeR
You are correct, I read the names too quickly, and as they are similar when skimming the page I made an error.


So sorry.

your both still full of shit.

Lets look at this fact:

previous 2 seasons the same cowboys with the same Quincy 5-11 each season

this season same cowboys, same quincy 10-6

now is this because any one of the players was SO much better? no, its because they got a real freaking Head Coach who didn't have his head up his ass and knew how to call a game.

No matter my errors, your labels or his stats, the facts are the same, Carter doesn't rate consideration, Kitna IS what the award is about, and it boggles my mind how completely self absorbed Dallas fans can really be when they think they're being slighted when a "feel good" award isn't given to their player.


holy shit man.

It's amazing you'd talk about being self absorbed when every single one of your post with flawed logic that cancels out the other post you just made and is followed by a 'cha-ching kool dude' remark but none the less.

Quincy Carter played 7 games last year, so it's hardly like he led the team to a 5-11 season, he played 8 the year before.

I guess that doesn't really matter though, cause soon you're gonna be telling me wins don't matter either.


This lazy debate aside, before anyone else gets the wrong idea, I'm not taking away from Kitna winning the award, like I said earlier good for him, and I hope somebody gets a solid QB next year.

[DeToxRox]

Just to note for those: Carter has started 15 of 32 games those two years Render spoke of.

[RendeR]

Ok, maybe I'm missing something spectacular, Why does Dear wonderful Qunicy deserve this award then?>


better yet, lets ignore both of them, and find a real quality winner, just for your sanity.

name me another player in this league THIS season, who had at the beginning os his career been very successful, then spent the next 6 years as a joke and a punch line, who then had a season that ranked him among the leagues best at his position.

Go for it, I'll be happy to listen.


until you get tired and give up I'll be happy that Kitna got the award. You have to have been somewhere to be a comeback. until Carter or whoever elses name you pop up has a string of shit seasons and then hits the bigtime again, they don't deserve to be considered for the award. this isn't about where the team ended up, this isn't even really about the statistics, they simply add to the situation. This is about a guy who's career was dead (aka Maddux last season) coming back to the top of the game for this given year.

why the hell can't you get that through your head?

[DeToxRox]

BAH.

How many times do I have to say that Quincy WOULD deserve it over Kitna?

I said I'd pick him over Kitna, but not to win the award.

Who should win it, I dunno, but they should at least designate it as the Most Improved Player award, because the Comeback Player Award is not a good name for this years recipenet.

[RendeR]

Frankly kitna should have won the award last year, and not this year, based on even the statistical criteria, but Maddux was a BIGGER comeback in the same season and they only have one award.

Quincy has never BEEN good, he hasn't come back from anything. Kitna took a team to the playoffs when qunicy was still playing high school, and nearly did it again after years of sucking wind, THAT is the definition of coming back, now are you going to deny that as well?

[RendeR]

Who should win it, I dunno, but they should at least designate it as the Most Improved Player award, because the Comeback Player Award is not a good name for this years recipenet.

^
|

this is ignorant, read the thread and rethink this one a bit.

[DeToxRox]

All I am saying is this.

Quincy has went from a guy who was given the starting job out of lack of options to a QB of a Wildcard Playoff team.

There, didn't use any stats, like you said.

Now tell me how you'll argue that?

[RendeR]

I'll argue it that he hasn't come back from ANYTHING, he was never good before, and now he's still lame but on a better coached team. Dallas isn't in the playoffs because of Qunicy's superior play on the field.

He still doesn't rate consideration for the "COMEBACK PLAYER" of the year.

he INDEED would be a good candidate for "MOST IMPROVED" as has been bandied about here a number times.

[Deattribution]

Originally posted by RendeR
Ok, maybe I'm missing something spectacular, Why does Dear wonderful Qunicy deserve this award then?>


better yet, lets ignore both of them, and find a real quality winner, just for your sanity.

name me another player in this league THIS season, who had at the beginning os his career been very successful, then spent the next 6 years as a joke and a punch line, who then had a season that ranked him among the leagues best at his position.

Go for it, I'll be happy to listen.


until you get tired and give up I'll be happy that Kitna got the award. You have to have been somewhere to be a comeback. until Carter or whoever elses name you pop up has a string of shit seasons and then hits the bigtime again, they don't deserve to be considered for the award. this isn't about where the team ended up, this isn't even really about the statistics, they simply add to the situation. This is about a guy who's career was dead (aka Maddux last season) coming back to the top of the game for this given year.

why the hell can't you get that through your head?

Dante Culpepper

He was great his first year leading his team to great record, he was pretty crap his second season, he was benched in the middle of games his third... and he played really solid this year. Although with the same result as Kitna, no playoff.


Jake Plummer

Led his team to playoffs early in his career, spent 5 crap seasons in Arizona, Broncos have rolled when he's playing at QB, but his season was limited by injuries. IN the playoffs.

There's two.. sure they could be argued... but it's what you asked for.

[Deattribution]

Oh and before you say there careers weren't 'dead', neither was Kitna's, he started most of the end of the season last year, and all this year.

Hard for a guy to start for two seasons with a 'dead' career.

[RendeR]

I can agree with you on both counts that they should be considered, and Jake had he not been injured would indeed have deserved it more. He spent the majority of the year on the injured list, so it wasn't really much of a year at all for him.

Culpeper I can't argue against really, he was never considered a bad player to be honest though, everyone still considered him one of the top QB's even through his those two seasons.

[Deattribution]

Who are you and what did you do with the arrogant, insultive poster who's been posting?


Seriously though, I don't have a problem with Kitna winning the award, I just don't think it should be called Comeback Player. There aren't enough TRUE comeback players for there to be a yearly award.


Most Improved is fair to have, and fair for Kitna, in my opinion.

I'd of had Culpepper and Plummer in the race too though, along with a few others.


But we don't have a Kurt Warner or Tommy Maddox every year, not ones that truely deserve awards atleast.

[RendeR]

Originally posted by Deattribution
Oh and before you say there careers weren't 'dead', neither was Kitna's, he started most of the end of the season last year, and all this year.

Hard for a guy to start for two seasons with a 'dead' career.

"*Player A* has went from a guy who was given the starting job out of lack of options to a QB of a Wildcard Playoff team."

basically the same can be said of kitna, and as I stated above, he SHOULD have won it last year for that performance, but Maddux was the better choice last year. This year, there really wasn't a better overall choice for COMEBACK player than Kitna.

[RendeR]

Again though we hit the semantics of the title:

Most improved is based in statistical performance, kitna is NOT the most improved player, not nearly, he's stayed that steady for nearly 2 seasons. And if Maddux hadn't been a much more endearing comeback I honestly think Kitna would have won it last year.


You may be right that it shoulnd't be given each season.

but trying to call Kitna's award "most improved is really completely off the mark.

What I see is the league recognizing Kitna's reversal of the overall opinion and reputation he has had in this league as a weak armed short, mistake prone QB, into the Top tier starter he was this year.

That in itself IS a comeback.

My insults were more drawn from my real anger at the thought that a player has to be on a playoff team to qualify for an award like this. That was just rediculous. I'm not going back to check which D****** posted that thought, I'm llazy

[yabanci]

it's a stupid award. They should just rename it to the surprise of the year or something.