So If You're the Red Sox...

[Ksyrup]

...and the ARod deal doesn't go through, what in the hell do you do with Garciaparra? I'm assuming Nomar is mature enough to play out his contract without acting like Albert Belle would if in this situation, but it's pretty obvious that the team doesn't want him at his going rate and that he'll be moving on to the West Coast next year. Do you make a deal for another SS now, or just stick with him and let him go next year?

[Huckleberry]

You convince A-Rod to retire and forfeit his contract and remaining signing bonus (if there is any) with the Rangers. He can unretire in 2 months and sign with Boston.

[McSweeny]

i wouldn't be surprised if the signed him to an extension. Nomar did not want to play in Chicago and has claimed he wants to stay. If he wants to stick around he may just take $12 million per year. If not we keep him around this year and let him test the market. He'll realize no one is going to pay him $15 million+ per and maybe he'll come back at a reduced rate.

[Ksyrup]

Isn't it worth it to the Sox to do this deal, even if on Texas' terms, just to have ARod, get rid of Manny, and have Ordonez? Worry about 2007 and beyond later. You've put yourself in this situation - where you've just increased the number of unhappy superstars on your team from 1 to 2 - you've basically got to make it right, whatever the cost.

[McSweeny]

Manny wasn't unhappy at all. That's all been blown out of porportion by the media(ie Boston Globe, WEEI) and Nomar is a professional coming off a down year.

Paying $5 million a year of Manny's salary is NOT an option. Arod is not worth that much. Ordonez will also be a free agent after this year and costs more than Nomar does. Plus we'd be giving up Scott Williamson to get him. Not a smart move.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by McSweeny
i wouldn't be surprised if the signed him to an extension. Nomar did not want to play in Chicago and has claimed he wants to stay. If he wants to stick around he may just take $12 million per year. If not we keep him around this year and let him test the market. He'll realize no one is going to pay him $15 million+ per and maybe he'll come back at a reduced rate.

Maybe. But chances are, if he went so far as to test free agency, then they'd have to offer him arbitration by early December or risk losing him for good. And maybe that's not a bad option - if he puts up great numbers, they might get stuck with a 1-year contract at his asking price ($15M), or if he plays at "post-2000 Nomar" level, maybe arbitration would be somewhat kind to them.

The real question is how this affects him, Manny, and the clubhouse for 2004 if they go that route. Not to mention all of the fans - only after the potential trades fall through could a fan base be disappointed with keeping the team tnhey have now, since ARod and Magglio is such a nice upgrade from Nomar and Manny.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by McSweeny
Manny wasn't unhappy at all. That's all been blown out of porportion by the media(ie Boston Globe, WEEI) and Nomar is a professional coming off a down year.

Well, that may be, but I don't think the feelings are mutual. And I don't care who you are, if you've been given a clear indication - publicly, no less - that your employer does not like or want you, it's going to affect your attitude.

Nomar hasn't been the same since 2000.

[McSweeny]

Arod (995 OPS) + Ordonez (926 OPS) = 1921 OPS

Manny (1.014 OPS) + Nomar (870 OPS) = 1884 OPS

and this past year Ordonez was basically a mid 800 OPS guy except for one month where he was above 1000. Nomar was neck and neck with Arod in OPS except for one month.

I'd say it's basically a wash. Toss in the prospect and Williamson and the Red Sox come out behind picking up Arod and Ordonez

[Fido]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Isn't it worth it to the Sox to do this deal, even if on Texas' terms, just to have ARod, get rid of Manny, and have Ordonez?

Assuming the Ordonez deal goes through. From what I've heard today its far from a done deal, with Chicago sprotswrites now reporting that the deal is dead because the WSox don't have a team to reship Nomar to.

[miked]

Red Sox fans don't care who the team puts on the field, they'll blindly think their team is the best in baseball no "matta" who's out there. This isn't really about the fans, its about an obsession with beating the Yankees, the Boston fans will show up regardless. The real reason Nomah will stay in Boston is because it keeps his value high...I think he batted like 50 pts higher at home last year or something. Put him in Dodger Stadium and he may just be another .290/15/80 kind of guy...

[McSweeny]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Well, that may be, but I don't think the feelings are mutual. And I don't care who you are, if you've been given a clear indication - publicly, no less - that your employer does not like or want you, it's going to affect your attitude.

Nomar hasn't been the same since 2000.

it's not that the Red Sox don't want Nomar, he turned down 15 per year so they moved on. It is his own fault they went after Arod and Nomar knows that. And Manny is a non-issue he doesn't care one way or the other. He'll just continue to put up 1000+ OPS numbers

[Draft Dodger]

the only thing I know is this:

a lot of sportswriters have been saying that Nomar can't stay, because the Boston fans won't take him back, which is about as wrong as you can get.

New Englanders LOVE Nomar. There isn't much risk that the fans will have any problem embracing Nomar if this all falls through, and I think there's a decent number of fans who hope it does dissolve.

[McSweeny]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
the only thing I know is this:

a lot of sportswriters have been saying that Nomar can't stay, because the Boston fans won't take him back, which is about as wrong as you can get.

New Englanders LOVE Nomar. There isn't much risk that the fans will have any problem embracing Nomar if this all falls through, and I think there's a decent number of fans who hope it does dissolve.

He'll get a standing ovation in his first at-bat at Fenway this year. No doubt about it. Nomar is Boston. We LOVE his is right. And you can count me in the group of fans who hope this does fall through and Nomar signs a long term deal

[Neuqua]

When I think Boston Red Sox, I think Nomar. I have for the past decade or so. He seems like a good guy, and has been someone I've always rooted for.

[BishopMVP]

This trade isn't to improve the team during the season. With either duo we will win be projected to win about 95 games and make the postseason. It's about beating the Yankees in the postseason (as a fan, when Boston wins the WS, I want to go through them) and, as much as I love Nomar as a player and a person, other then Game 6 he hasn't had a clutch hit in about 4 years. Manny also slumped some in the postseason. Now, these things can't really be proven, but in my opinion, Nomar plays worse in the clutch. Will A-Rod and Ordonez be better? I don't know, and I don't think anyone can say for certain.

[Solecismic]

Don't forget the defense aspect. Rodriguez makes plays that Garciaparra can't get close to. And ARod is just entering his prime.

I'm not happy about throwing away Williamson for nothing, but apparently he's being quite a jerk over the Foulke signing and he is due quite a salary boost through arbitration.

I hope this deal gets done. It sure is interesting on the SOSH boards. Apparently, the Boston sports radio station, WEEI, dedicated the afternoon to bashing SOSH, and Curt Schilling called in and gave the talk ratio idiots quite a verbal spanking.

[TroyF]

I'm with Ksyrup on this one. This has been such a public negotiation, I think they have to get the deal done. I think they will get the deal done.

[DeToxRox]

espn.com has it posed that Selig ended negoiatons.

Is Hicks dumb enough to do Manny for A-Rod straight up?

I hope not.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle
espn.com has it posed that Selig ended negoiatons.

Is Hicks dumb enough to do Manny for A-Rod straight up?

I hope not.

Doesn't matter what Selig says. Every report I'm hearing says that A-Rod wants the deal done, the Red Sox want the deal done and the Rangers want the deal done. So much so that they are staying in New York to continue working on it.

I still think this will get finished.

[DeToxRox]

Ahh, thanks Troy, just saw that.

I am a big A-Rod fan, and yet, I have a big distate for the BoSox.

The moves are great (A-Rod and Schill) if Schilling can stay healthy. He could be on the downslope of his career, we won't know until it happens, and Pedro hasn't been able to stay totally healthy many times in the latter stages of his career.

If Schilling and Pedro are healthy, then A-Rod is just insurance. If not, A-Rod won't help much at all.

[bbor]

If i'm NO-MA...i'm pissed.

[Gambit]

Trade No-Maaah to the Angels and get some of their players because they've proven that they can beat the Yankees in the playoffs

Very shameless because I want Nomar on the Angels, badly

[Honolulu_Blue]

I used to sort of like the Red Sox. They seemed to be a force of "good" against the force of evil that is the New York Yankees. However, it seems like this year (and perhaos last) the Red Sox have determined that they have to become their enemy to beat them. They are like the "Yankees Lite" all of a sudden. This, of course, means they have turned to the darkside and are now evil. Maybe this has always been the case and I just tuned into it, but it's sad to see. I hope they both lose and lose royally for the immediate and distant future.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by Honolulu_Blue
I used to sort of like the Red Sox. They seemed to be a force of "good" against the force of evil that is the New York Yankees. However, it seems like this year (and perhaos last) the Red Sox have determined that they have to become their enemy to beat them. They are like the "Yankees Lite" all of a sudden. This, of course, means they have turned to the darkside and are now evil. Maybe this has always been the case and I just tuned into it, but it's sad to see. I hope they both lose and lose royally for the immediate and distant future.

I've been starting to get that same vibe as well and I'm glad it wasn't just me.

SI

[HornedFrog Purple]

Originally posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle
espn.com has it posed that Selig ended negoiatons.

Is Hicks dumb enough to do Manny for A-Rod straight up?

Yes.

Manny is a cancer. I don't want him. He makes Harold Baines look like a saint.

Hicks is also looking for sponsorship for the Ballpark. He has already disgraced what was a beautiful ballpark with the 14.3 million ad boards... sigh...

[Ksyrup]

Am I correct that the only reason there is (was) a time limit, is because ARod is not Red Sox property? If so, and if the Red Sox and Rangers can agree on a deal, what's to stop the deal from happening, then the Red Sox deal separately - and take as much time as they want - with ARod's contract? Yes, they'd be taking a chance, but you have to guess that at some point, they could find common ground with the union.

If the parties really want to get this done, and it's going to happen, it seems like this might be the only way.

[rkmsuf]

The Red Sox camp has come out and flatly said the deal is dead today and they are moving on. Judging by how Hicks still seems to have a hard on to get this done it may just be posturing by Boston.

They should try and back this guy down because insisting the Red Sox pay 5 million of Manny's contract is ridiculous. I wouldn't mind the Sox saying screw you Hicks and go in another direction...