2016-17 NFL Coaching Carousel/ Offseason Thread - Page 11

thesloppy · 08-29-2017, 01:23 AM

Even removing the rest of the league from the equation Matt Stafford is easily the most talented player on the Lions, and the best QB the Lions have had in 60 years, and letting him walk away was probably never an option.

I like to think Stafford is at least flirting with being a top 10 QB...and perhaps even has potential to be top 5...but they've never had a rushing ranking in the top half of the league since he's been there, and I think it's been 50+ games since the Lions last had a back break 100 yards, and that's not even considering their D. Conceivably, I guess Stafford's $27MM a year could eat into the ability to build that team around him and sabotage himself in the effort, but the Lions biggest struggles with attracting and signing the best talent usually doesn't have much to do with money.

Kodos · 08-29-2017, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Eh. Something about fining a guy about 800k or so for a hit in a preseason game doesn't sit right with me.

Agreed that Mitchell is a POS Julio and he makes it hard to root for the Steelers.

You don't want the fines, stop making questionable hits.

albionmoonlight · 08-29-2017, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

5 years at around $27 million per year. This makes Matthew Stafford the highest paid player in NFL history, until the next QB signs his deal, which could be Kirk Cousins. That's just how these things work.

Yup. Lots of folks on twitter saying that's too much money. But anytime an under-30 starting QB signs an extension, it's going to be for "too much money." Just the way the highly artificial NFL market works.

QuikSand · 08-29-2017, 07:55 AM

Why do we say the market is artificial? If Matthew Stafford were to walk into free agency, what kind of money would he be offered in the open "free" market from multiple competitive teams?

I understand that sports salaries always fail the comparison test (..."how many firefighters..." and so forth) but given the importance of the position and the true scarcity of competence there at the level required to be competitive... can we really say $30m is too much? Can we lay this at the feet of a flawed market?

bronconick · 08-29-2017, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

The Lions finally signed Stafford to his extension.

5 years at around $27 million per year. This makes Matthew Stafford the highest paid player in NFL history, until the next QB signs his deal, which could be Kirk Cousins. That's just how these things work.

Is Stafford worth this money? No, probably not. But, that being said, there wasn't much of an option here. The one opportunity to move Stafford was when Bob Quinn first took over at the end of the 2015 season. If he thought Stafford wasn't the answer, he could have tried to trade him when Stafford still had two years left on his contract.

Once Quinn kept him, it was clear he'd need to be resigned. Stafford isn't the greatest QB in the league, but he's likely a top 15 QB and it's not like the Lions have a great QB waiting in the wings and the draft is a total crap shoot. I'm fine sticking with Stafford and seeing where it goes. It won't likely be a Super Bowl and probably not even a playoff victory, but I'm very used to all of that.

It took 60 years to get a decent QB in Detroit. I'd rather not start searching for a new one again. Cleveland's been looking for 20 years, Chicago for 30.

stevew · 08-29-2017, 08:06 AM

Stafford is certainly good enough to win a few playoff games with the correct pieces around him. I don't see how 27M is too much given the
Scarcity at the position. Probably 8-10 teams out there would kill for him. If the lions wanted to move on I think they could get in the neighborhood of 2 firsts and seconds for him(at least)

albionmoonlight · 08-29-2017, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Why do we say the market is artificial? If Matthew Stafford were to walk into free agency, what kind of money would he be offered in the open "free" market from multiple competitive teams?

I understand that sports salaries always fail the comparison test (..."how many firefighters..." and so forth) but given the importance of the position and the true scarcity of competence there at the level required to be competitive... can we really say $30m is too much? Can we lay this at the feet of a flawed market?

By "artificial," I was talking about the salary cap, minimum salaries, the need for a certain sized roster, etc.

The importance of QBs, combined with the NFL's hard cap, means that young QBs will always seem "overpaid" compared to other positions.

If the NFL had, say, baseball's model, then Stafford making $30 million a year wouldn't seem so high because J.J. Watt would probably be making $30 million a year, too.

Butter · 08-29-2017, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

The Lions finally signed Stafford to his extension.

5 years at around $27 million per year. This makes Matthew Stafford the highest paid player in NFL history, until the next QB signs his deal, which could be Kirk Cousins. That's just how these things work.

Is Stafford worth this money? No, probably not. But, that being said, there wasn't much of an option here. The one opportunity to move Stafford was when Bob Quinn first took over at the end of the 2015 season. If he thought Stafford wasn't the answer, he could have tried to trade him when Stafford still had two years left on his contract.

Once Quinn kept him, it was clear he'd need to be resigned. Stafford isn't the greatest QB in the league, but he's likely a top 15 QB and it's not like the Lions have a great QB waiting in the wings and the draft is a total crap shoot. I'm fine sticking with Stafford and seeing where it goes. It won't likely be a Super Bowl and probably not even a playoff victory, but I'm very used to all of that.

I feel like I could've written this about Andy Dalton and his last contract.

stevew · 08-31-2017, 11:29 AM

If Haden is 100% this is an awesome move for the Steelers

albionmoonlight · 08-31-2017, 01:22 PM

Random trivia from twitter:

What are the two days this season when every NFL team is scheduled to play?

rjolley · 08-31-2017, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Random trivia from twitter:

What are the two days this season when every NFL team is scheduled to play?

Last Sunday of the season and Christmas Eve?

albionmoonlight · 08-31-2017, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjolley

Last Sunday of the season and Christmas Eve?

Yes on last Sunday of the season.

albionmoonlight · 08-31-2017, 01:31 PM

I'll just give the second one b/c I realized I mis-stated the question. The other answer is today.

I shouldn't have said "season" upon further reflection. Though "league year" or some other awkward phrase would have given it away.

Arles · 08-31-2017, 03:39 PM

Like the Ahmad Brooks signing for Green Bay. Every year this team goes into the season with oft-injured guys and no depth at one spot. Two years ago it was OL (killed us in the playoffs), last year it was CB (as seen in the Atlanta game) and this year it was OLB. GB let Pepper and Datone Jones walk and their only addition was a 4th round pick who needed foot surgery (and is on the PUP). I don't see how Ted thought going into the season with Nick Perry and Clay (neither of who ever get injured

) and no real backups was a good idea. Brooks should help, but GB needs to stop this practice of having no depth in a key spot - while having $15 mil in cap space left over.

albionmoonlight · 09-01-2017, 10:35 AM

Irsay just said that Luck's arm is ok but he might not play because "it's in his head."

Shitty owners are just so shitty. Why the hell do you want to call out your QB? So he has less loyalty to your team? So his teammates start to doubt him? So future FAs know that you are an asshole that they might want to avoid?

When franchise owners die, the teams should be forced to be sold. The kid still gets the billion dollars from the team, but the fans have a better chance of a competent owner instead of just rolling the dice with the rich guy's kid. (But see Dan Snyder).

JonInMiddleGA · 09-01-2017, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

When franchise owners die, the teams should be forced to be sold. The kid still gets the billion dollars from the team, but the fans have a better chance of a competent owner instead of just rolling the dice with the rich guy's kid.

That suggests that fans somehow have a "right" to competent ownership. That's really not the case.

albionmoonlight · 09-01-2017, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That suggests that fans somehow have a "right" to competent ownership. That's really not the case.

You are totally right about that.

But the Saints' owner is a billion years old. And all of the possible heirs look like some degree of disaster already.

So I'm really just advocating for forcibly preventing people from having control of their estate so my favorite football team will be slightly less likely to suck in the future.

heybrad · 09-01-2017, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

When franchise owners die, the teams should be forced to be sold. The kid still gets the billion dollars from the team, but the fans have a better chance of a competent owner instead of just rolling the dice with the rich guy's kid. (But see Dan Snyder).

This is also referred to as Lakers Syndrome.

Buccaneer · 09-01-2017, 12:56 PM

Before the Draft, I ranked the QBs this way:
1. Mahomes
2. Truibisky
3. (another I can't remember the name)
4. Watson
.
.
7. Kizer

While I still believe Mahomes was easily the best QB in the draft, it will be interesting to see how the others fare.

bhlloy · 09-01-2017, 01:12 PM

Mahomes made some incredible throws last night. Bit of an up and down preseason overall but nothing unusual for a rookie. He's got a chance to be really special

cartman · 09-01-2017, 01:34 PM

But when the games start to count, will Reid let him throw it more than 10 yards downfield?

cartman · 09-01-2017, 04:06 PM

Apparently the Browns have released Osweiler.

Thomkal · 09-01-2017, 04:20 PM

Jets have traded Sheldon Richardson to Seattle for WR Kearse and a draft pick. At least now I can say I've heard of a Jets receiver.

Jets trade Sheldon Richardson to Seattle Seahawks - NFL.com

And yep on the Browns:

Browns release quarterback Brock Osweiler - NFL.com

Cards release RB Chris Johnson too

cuervo72 · 09-01-2017, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

When franchise owners die, the teams should be forced to be sold. The kid still gets the billion dollars from the team, but the fans have a better chance of a competent owner instead of just rolling the dice with the rich guy's kid. (But see Dan Snyder).

Is it worth putting up with the Irsays (whose dad was no better), Spanoses, Davises, etc. in order to keep the Maras and Rooneys? (Maybe the Hunts, too.)

bhlloy · 09-01-2017, 06:53 PM

I'm pretty shocked the Pats didn't make that move for Richardson. Talented, troubled so cheap and a way to piss off Jets fans

BishopMVP · 09-02-2017, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I'm pretty shocked the Pats didn't make that move for Richardson. Talented, troubled so cheap and a way to piss off Jets fans

Richardson has some real problems. We'll just take David Harris & be on our way.

mckerney · 09-02-2017, 02:19 PM

Colts Acquire Quarterback Jacoby Brissett; Send Phillip Dorsett To Patriots

Quote:

The 6-foot-4, 235-pound Brissett, 24, is coming off perhaps one of the greatest preseason performances by a quarterback in NFL history on Thursday

Wonder if he'll get a banner.

JonInMiddleGA · 09-02-2017, 04:45 PM

Osweiler back to DEN?

LMAO

BishopMVP · 09-02-2017, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckerney

Colts Acquire Quarterback Jacoby Brissett; Send Phillip Dorsett To Patriots

Belichick always surprising on cut day... Figured they'd just keep Austin Carr after Edelman went down. Pats haven't had this much deep speed since at least 2008, if ever during Brady's tenure.

QuikSand · 09-02-2017, 08:43 PM

So, KC cuts CJ Spiller, who seemingly was having a resurgent preseason. It might be one of those cut-but-plan-to-re-sign deals to avoid his base salary becoming guaranteed, I guess... but that seems to even further inflate the stock of young Kareem Hunt for fantasy purposes. Sounds like they are gong to have him do it all.

JPhillips · 09-02-2017, 09:18 PM

Belichik sure looks like a guy planning to retire when Brady does. He's never played this short term before.

CU Tiger · 09-02-2017, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

So, KC cuts CJ Spiller, who seemingly was having a resurgent preseason. It might be one of those cut-but-plan-to-re-sign deals to avoid his base salary becoming guaranteed, I guess... but that seems to even further inflate the stock of young Kareem Hunt for fantasy purposes. Sounds like they are gong to have him do it all.

Spiller is a max vet, his min is 5x a rooks.

CrescentMoonie · 09-02-2017, 10:28 PM

Wonder how injured TJ Ward is for Denver to go ahead and cut him. If he's able to put in even a good half of a season, then he's got to be the biggest name out there for a contender that needs a S.

CrescentMoonie · 09-03-2017, 10:36 AM

This explains Stefon McClure making the roster as a 5th safety. Cravens looked like he was making the transition to S really well. Cravens had a concussion last year that is apparently still affecting his vision.

Su'a Cravens of Washington Redskins, 22, pondered retiring

08-29-2017, 01:23 AM	#501
thesloppy Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: PDX	Even removing the rest of the league from the equation Matt Stafford is easily the most talented player on the Lions, and the best QB the Lions have had in 60 years, and letting him walk away was probably never an option. I like to think Stafford is at least flirting with being a top 10 QB...and perhaps even has potential to be top 5...but they've never had a rushing ranking in the top half of the league since he's been there, and I think it's been 50+ games since the Lions last had a back break 100 yards, and that's not even considering their D. Conceivably, I guess Stafford's $27MM a year could eat into the ability to build that team around him and sabotage himself in the effort, but the Lions biggest struggles with attracting and signing the best talent usually doesn't have much to do with money. __________________ Last edited by thesloppy : Today at 05:35 PM.

08-31-2017, 03:39 PM	#514
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	Like the Ahmad Brooks signing for Green Bay. Every year this team goes into the season with oft-injured guys and no depth at one spot. Two years ago it was OL (killed us in the playoffs), last year it was CB (as seen in the Atlanta game) and this year it was OLB. GB let Pepper and Datone Jones walk and their only addition was a 4th round pick who needed foot surgery (and is on the PUP). I don't see how Ted thought going into the season with Nick Perry and Clay (neither of who ever get injured ) and no real backups was a good idea. Brooks should help, but GB needs to stop this practice of having no depth in a key spot - while having $15 mil in cap space left over. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com Last edited by Arles : 08-31-2017 at 03:39 PM.

09-01-2017, 10:35 AM	#515
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	Irsay just said that Luck's arm is ok but he might not play because "it's in his head." Shitty owners are just so shitty. Why the hell do you want to call out your QB? So he has less loyalty to your team? So his teammates start to doubt him? So future FAs know that you are an asshole that they might want to avoid? When franchise owners die, the teams should be forced to be sold. The kid still gets the billion dollars from the team, but the fans have a better chance of a competent owner instead of just rolling the dice with the rich guy's kid. (But see Dan Snyder). Last edited by albionmoonlight : 09-01-2017 at 10:36 AM.

09-01-2017, 01:12 PM	#520
bhlloy Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003	Mahomes made some incredible throws last night. Bit of an up and down preseason overall but nothing unusual for a rookie. He's got a chance to be really special Last edited by bhlloy : 09-01-2017 at 01:12 PM.

09-01-2017, 01:34 PM	#521
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	But when the games start to count, will Reid let him throw it more than 10 yards downfield? __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

08-29-2017, 07:55 AM	#504
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Why do we say the market is artificial? If Matthew Stafford were to walk into free agency, what kind of money would he be offered in the open "free" market from multiple competitive teams? I understand that sports salaries always fail the comparison test (..."how many firefighters..." and so forth) but given the importance of the position and the true scarcity of competence there at the level required to be competitive... can we really say $30m is too much? Can we lay this at the feet of a flawed market?

08-29-2017, 08:06 AM	#506
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Stafford is certainly good enough to win a few playoff games with the correct pieces around him. I don't see how 27M is too much given the Scarcity at the position. Probably 8-10 teams out there would kill for him. If the lions wanted to move on I think they could get in the neighborhood of 2 firsts and seconds for him(at least)

08-31-2017, 11:29 AM	#509
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	If Haden is 100% this is an awesome move for the Steelers

08-31-2017, 01:22 PM	#510
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	Random trivia from twitter: What are the two days this season when every NFL team is scheduled to play?

08-31-2017, 01:31 PM	#513
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	I'll just give the second one b/c I realized I mis-stated the question. The other answer is today. I shouldn't have said "season" upon further reflection. Though "league year" or some other awkward phrase would have given it away.

09-01-2017, 12:56 PM	#519
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	Before the Draft, I ranked the QBs this way: 1. Mahomes 2. Truibisky 3. (another I can't remember the name) 4. Watson . . 7. Kizer While I still believe Mahomes was easily the best QB in the draft, it will be interesting to see how the others fare.

09-01-2017, 04:06 PM	#522
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	Apparently the Browns have released Osweiler. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

09-01-2017, 04:20 PM	#523
Thomkal Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA	Jets have traded Sheldon Richardson to Seattle for WR Kearse and a draft pick. At least now I can say I've heard of a Jets receiver. Jets trade Sheldon Richardson to Seattle Seahawks - NFL.com And yep on the Browns: Browns release quarterback Brock Osweiler - NFL.com Cards release RB Chris Johnson too __________________ Coastal Carolina Baseball-2016 National Champion! 10/17/20-Coastal Football ranked in Top 25 for first time!

09-01-2017, 06:53 PM	#525
bhlloy Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003	I'm pretty shocked the Pats didn't make that move for Richardson. Talented, troubled so cheap and a way to piss off Jets fans

09-02-2017, 04:45 PM	#528
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Osweiler back to DEN? LMAO __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

09-02-2017, 08:43 PM	#530
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	So, KC cuts CJ Spiller, who seemingly was having a resurgent preseason. It might be one of those cut-but-plan-to-re-sign deals to avoid his base salary becoming guaranteed, I guess... but that seems to even further inflate the stock of young Kareem Hunt for fantasy purposes. Sounds like they are gong to have him do it all.

09-02-2017, 09:18 PM	#531
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	Belichik sure looks like a guy planning to retire when Brady does. He's never played this short term before. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

09-02-2017, 10:28 PM	#533
CrescentMoonie College Starter Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Earth, the semi-final frontier.	Wonder how injured TJ Ward is for Denver to go ahead and cut him. If he's able to put in even a good half of a season, then he's got to be the biggest name out there for a contender that needs a S.

09-03-2017, 10:36 AM	#534
CrescentMoonie College Starter Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Earth, the semi-final frontier.	This explains Stefon McClure making the roster as a 5th safety. Cravens looked like he was making the transition to S really well. Cravens had a concussion last year that is apparently still affecting his vision. Su'a Cravens of Washington Redskins, 22, pondered retiring Last edited by CrescentMoonie : 09-03-2017 at 10:38 AM.

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