Keyshaun released???

[Calis]

Apparently I completely missed the Keyshawn bashing Marvin Harrison episode.

What exactly happened there?

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by cincyreds
I just hope the Cowboys don't pick him up.

That, I could live with. Him and the "she" Glenn would make a nice duo...

FM

[FrogMan]

Originally posted by Calis
Apparently I completely missed the Keyshawn bashing Marvin Harrison episode.

What exactly happened there?

On MNF a week ago (or was it two), Meshawn was mic'd up and he kept on talking how better than Harrison he was and how HE was the cream of the crop in the year they both got drafted...

Something to that effect...

FM

[scooper]

Originally posted by panerd
What about joining his mouthy cousin (Chad) in Cinci. I would love Keyshawn, Chad, and Warrick. They all talk smack, but are pretty good receivers.

No No and NO! In spite of Dillon's little outburst a few weeks ago, that team is tight. There is no room for Meshawn in that locker room. Besides, if Kelly Washington progresses this offseason, I'm not sure Leon would be an improvement. He is already not an improvement over Chad or P-Dub.

[yabanci]

he was released after the first season in my FOF2004 career too and I though it was so unrealistic. ha ha

[JAG]

Originally posted by yabanci
he was released after the first season in my FOF2004 career too and I though it was so unrealistic. ha ha

That cracks me up.

[Pacersfan46]

Originally posted by TroyF
I can only hope John Gruden played back the tape of Meshawn insulting Marvin Harrison a few times when he told him of the decision.

Haha, that was one of the most hilarious things I've ever seen.

To insult Marvin Harrison in such a way, and then Marvin was the reason that the Colts won that game. By catching multiple TD's and putting Keyshawn in his place.

= )

[Pacersfan46]

Originally posted by Calis
Apparently I completely missed the Keyshawn bashing Marvin Harrison episode.

What exactly happened there?

Keyshawn was Mic'd up, and Marvin caught 2 WR screen passes, for about 10 yards.

Keyshawns response was ... ."Yeah, that's how he gets all of his catches, and he's supposed to be the best WR in the NFL?"

Among a couple other comments I tried to forget.

[yabanci]

I think before the game when he was miked up Keyshawn was talking about how he was going to teach Harrison a lesson in how it''s done in primetime, something to that effect.

[Pyser]

keyshawn was talking shit about harrison not doing anything as the bucs built their huge lead. then harrison ended up catching 2 tds later in the game as the bucs scored 21 points in the last 5 minutes to beat the bucs (in ot). made keyshawn look very foolish for talking smack, and then getting out-performed and losing.

[Eaglesfan27]

Will this finally lower his rating in Madden?

[Glengoyne]

Originally posted by Kodos
In my Madden dynasty, I put Owens and Moss on the Raiders, and have a young Jeff George throwing to them.

You know those three might all be assholes, but really That combination would put up some MONSTER numbers.

Say what you like about Jeff George, and I say plenty, the fact of the matter is I think he threw the most beautiful pass in the history of Monday Night Football a few years back. He had the skills, just not the head.

The pass I am thinking of was a post route to Moss, I believe, right in the middle of three defenders. The ball was absolutely where it had to be, 40 plus yards down the field, and the ball never got more than 12 feet off the ground. It was a frozen rope, not like the jump balls Moss caught from Cunningham then, and Culpepper now.

[Riggins44]

This wouldn't even be news if he wasn't such a loud mouth. The guy is a 2nd tier receiver. He is NOT a star receiver. Good for the Bucs for waking up and realizing he's not worth the $$$.

[Dutch]

Let me clear up some misunderstandings.

KJ is being deactivated. He's in the 4th year of a 7 year deal. Releasing him now would require next years cap hit to take the full brunt of 4 years of bonuses (which were huge). If they release him after the season, that is reduced to 3 years (still a big hit, but less obviously).

If KJ had a good attitude, wasn't a preMadonna, and was a team player (off the field and in practice) I would imagine people would look past his stats and see just how incredible of a WR he is.

He was never afraid to go across the middle. He is an incredible blocker who can take on LB's and has blocked multiple defenders in many 1st down and TD runs by the Bucs backfield over the years, has been soley responsable for our TE or FB or RB who goes out in the flat opposite KJ for being wideopen on many occassions.

This really sucks because he is an awesome football player, but if it's deteriorated that badly, I guess it's time for him to go. I remember that he had a hard time smiling after the Super Bowl, so maybe nothing will make him happy unless he is the man. But make no mistake, he is very passionate about being the man and will go to great lengths to be the man.

Like him or hate him, he's a damned fine talent that Buc fans will miss...

[IMetTrentGreen]

keyshawn johnson is a top 10-15 reciever in the game, easily

everything else said about him i agree with

[Pumpy Tudors]

Regardless of Keyshawn Johnson's character, if this move hurts the offense of the Buccaneers, it's a bad move. We have yet to see if that will be the case or not. I don't think it's time to start applauding Jon Gruden or Rich McKay yet.

[Kodos]

I do. I think that any time a coach or GM shows enough spine to put one of these guys in their place, it can only help the sport.

[oykib]

Originally posted by Kodos
I do. I think that any time a coach or GM shows enough spine to put one of these guys in their place, it can only help the sport.

I still haven't heard anything that Keyshawn did to be put in 'his place.' Sometimes coaches and players don't get along. But even you guys who hate him would have to admit tht he is one of the harder working players in the game.

And despite being known as a glory hound, his most notble skills are things that no one gets much credit for: blocking and running 'distraction' routes. Of course, he's not better thn Marvin Harrison. But whom do the Bucks have that is better. Who are they going to replace him with.

I'll reserve judgement until the whole story comes out. But unless he did something catastophic, this seems like a bad move by 4-6 team.

Perhaps Gruden using this to motivte the rest of the team.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally posted by Kodos
I do. I think that any time a coach or GM shows enough spine to put one of these guys in their place, it can only help the sport.

It helps YOUR vision of what the sport is supposed to be, but does it help the Buccaneers win football games? If not, then it may be a good thing for some fans, but that doesn't do a damn thing for getting the Bucs another championship. I'm not saying if Keyshawn's deactivation is a good thing or not, because we haven't seen how it affects the team on the field yet. I'm simply saying that IF it hurts the team's offense, I don't know if that's worth the tradeoff of getting an asshole off the team.

Or has the NFL become a personality contest?

[sabotai]

"Or has the NFL become a personality contest?"

Sometimes a player's personality can be very detrimental to the players around him.

[mckerney]

It may hurt them short term, though chances are they'll be better off in the long run.

[Dutch]

Well Pumpy, I think you're right about it being a loss, but I don't recall seeing McKay and Gruden high-fiving each other and laughing and carrying on about how they are definately going to win 6 games and go to the playoffs as the team to beat now.

They were unhappy campers and I think they know they lost a great talent. But again, if KJ alledgedly talking trash about management, the owners, the trainers, other players and not showing up to meetings and practices has reduced the morale of other players to the point where they are diming him out and are unhappy with him...I think the decision was easy.

The move was not made to make the team contenders, it was to remove a cancer that we, the fans, didn't really ever see.

...and frees up some base salary cap room to get Sapp resigned...

[Pumpy Tudors]

All points respectfully noted. I stress that I am not saying that this is either a good move or a bad move, as I don't think we've seen the full effects of it yet. This could turn out to be a great move. All I'm saying is that I don't know one way or the other yet.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

The thing that sucks is that now I have to alter the player file AGAIN!!!

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Dutch

...and frees up some base salary cap room to get Sapp resigned...

why in the world would they want to re-sign the other maniac? not to mention he's running on fumes at this point.

[Dutch]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
why in the world would they want to re-sign the other maniac? not to mention he's running on fumes at this point.

Unfortunately, I don't have the priveledge of looking at Sapp in the here and now. As a die-hard, I remember 1995 when he came to Tampa and was front and center in selling Tampa to free agents. For me to turn on Sapp or Brooks or Lynch because of an off year would be pretty fickle of me. Loyalty still means something and Sapp is a very big part of the reason why I can say the Bucs are a Super Bowl Champion right now.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Samdari
You need to look harder.

Lets see, Michael Pittman is a convicted wife beater, I did forget him. Kenyetta Walker is a cheap shot artist, but I expect he'll be released after the season anyway.

Still, they have Brad Johnson, Joe J. (I'm not even going to attempt a spelling), John Lynch, Derrick Brooks, and Ronde Barber who I highly admire both as players and people.

If they get rid of Sapp-head and K.J., there will be a lot more room for me to like them again.

TroyF

[Dutch]

I don't even consider Michael Pittman a Buccaneer. He's a true mercenary....a RB for hire....if he stays or goes, I could care less.

[JAG]

Originally posted by oykib
But even you guys who hate him would have to admit tht he is one of the harder working players in the game.

From Don Banks' article on cnnsi:

..."They lost a player who as recently as Monday morning put himself into final-straw territory by blowing off the team's mandatory day-after-the-game routine of weightlifting, running and meeting with his receivers coach. That despite Bucs head coach Jon Gruden repeatedly reminding his players of those duties amid the gloom of Sunday's losing locker room, after Tampa Bay's potentially season-killing game against Green Bay.

...

And they lost a veteran player who has been known to dog it at times during practices and walk-throughs, and give something less than his full undivided attention (feet propped up, head drooping) in team meetings. And that doesn't even address Johnson's disturbing penchant for lining up in the wrong spots during a game from time to time."

[Dutch]

Don Banks doesn't mention that he doesn't work hard during the game, either!

[nfgrawker22]

ya know guys I think mosses trying when I want to days areover, he has tryed every game this season and has awesome stats thru the losing streak.... him and moe williams the only thing consistent on that team...culpepper 6 turnovers in one game...absolutely pathetic...that lost the game right there...

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Dutch
Unfortunately, I don't have the priveledge of looking at Sapp in the here and now. As a die-hard, I remember 1995 when he came to Tampa and was front and center in selling Tampa to free agents. For me to turn on Sapp or Brooks or Lynch because of an off year would be pretty fickle of me. Loyalty still means something and Sapp is a very big part of the reason why I can say the Bucs are a Super Bowl Champion right now.

OK, let me ask you a question:

Do you want to win the Super Bowl again, or are you just happy watching the players who helped get you the first one fade into the night with BIG contracts? Should they make Brad Johnson the third or fourth highest paid QB in the game because of LAST season?

I understand Sapp helped turn the team around. That was when he was a dominating DT who sliced through opposing offensive lineman at will. In '97 through '00 Sapp was one of the most dominating DT in the game.

He isn't even close now. He's a fat, bloated, out of shape DT who is content to get some leftover sacks when Rice breaks down the pocket. He isn't even dominating vs. the run anymore. Late in a close game? Forget it, he isn't anywhere to be found in the fourth quarter.

The scary part of all of this is that this is a CONTRACT year. This is the time he should be playing his ass off to try to get one last big contract. What the heck does he do if the Bucs give it to him?

The Bucs have other holes to fill. They cannot make him one of the top 5 paid DT's in the game and still fill those other needs to get back to being playoff contenders.

Hell, I make my biggest mistakes in FOF trying to keep a players ghost. Savor Sapp's role in bringing TB up from the ashes. Don't make the mistake of thinking that player will help you get back to the promised land.

TroyF

[Axxon]

Originally posted by Dutch
Don Banks doesn't mention that he doesn't work hard during the game, either!

Well, no, because then he'd be admitting that he is either ignorant or a liar or both. Say what you want about Meshawn but saying he doesn't work hard during the games is patently untrue. I've had the pleasure of watching every bucs game for the last few seasons ( not this one thank god ) and have a really good handle on what he brings to the games and it's not a slacker attitude.

Unfortunately for him, he's the only known receiver on a talent limited offense so his best work is as a decoy. One play last year is the perfect example of this. It was McCardell's 65 or so yard td pass reception. Both Keys were on the left side and KJ cut inside while McCardell went outside. There were three defenders in the area and all three converged on Johnson leaving McCardell an easy walk for six.

Of course, those who really know the game, you know, fans on bulletin boards not those who play or coach the game, know better and just know he's overrated and that he sucks but those idiots who draw up and execute game plans for a living are all deluded and feel he deserves the attention that he so undeservedly receives.

He's great in this role with this team but he wants to be something else. I'm so pissed right now. Pissed at him, pissed at the team, pissed at everybody involved but mostly at him.

Still, I'm not going to let that make me make ludicrous statements that can't be substantiated by

1. the observations and reactions of the professionals in the sport.

2. My own eyes over three seasons worth of Tampa games.

For the record, I didn't like him when he came to Tampa mainly because I'd never really seen him play and all I knew was about his attitude. He converted me into a lover of his game. It's sad that he could never overcome his attitude.

[Axxon]

Originally posted by TroyF
He isn't even dominating vs. the run anymore.

For the record, I missed when he was dominating against the run. What week was that again? He's always been soft vs the run but he was adequate enough considering he had Nickerson behind him and last year Quaryles. Look at how the defense vs the run slipped during the Duncan years between Nickerson and Quaryles for more proof.

[haji1]

One thing about Gruden is he does not allow cancers on his team. When he first came to Oakland he absolutely cleaned house of bad attitudes and brought in guys who were team players. It seems that is what he is doing here as well. Does it hurt them short term? Maybe, but they weren't exactly headed in the right direction either. If anything it puts out a notice to other players on the team that this kind of crap does not fly. In the long run this will help them immensely if only to let other FA WR know that there is now an opening for a #1 WR to come to TB and catch a lot of passes.

[Glengoyne]

Originally posted by TroyF
Lets see, Michael Pittman is a convicted wife beater, I did forget him.
TroyF

Not True! It was his girl friend.

I used to hate Pittman when he played at Fresno State. I was absolutely certain he would never catch on in the NFL. I am lucky I didn't bet on it, because I was absolutely certain he wouldn't finish his first training camp. My biggest beef was that he would stand still in the backfield, hopping from foot to foot, while he waited for the hole to open. The funny thing is that during the game this Sunday the announcer said the biggest problem he has, according to coaches, is that he hits the hole too soon. They say he is always at the point of attack too early.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by Dutch
...and frees up some base salary cap room to get Sapp resigned...

I am pretty sure that Keyshawn will cost more against the Bucs cap for 2004 this way than if he had played for them that season.

[Dutch]

OK, let me ask you a question:

Do you want to win the Super Bowl again, or are you just happy watching the players who helped get you the first one fade into the night with BIG contracts? Should they make Brad Johnson the third or fourth highest paid QB in the game because of LAST season?

Troy that's two questions, and a lot of making up your own assumptions about what I mean about fan loyalty, btw.

1. No, I don't want to win another Super Bowl and I think we should resign Lee Roy Selmon and Doug Williams for all they did for our organization....and fat contracts at that!

2. Should Brad be paid for what he has proven to be capable of doing? Why not! I guess you would handle it how?

Perhaps like this,

Before the Super Bowl
"Well, Brad, we can't pay you as a Super Bowl winning calibre QB, becuase, well, you just haven't proved it yet....hehe."

After Super Bowl
"Well Brad, it's great that you won the Super Bowl, but you're getting kind of old now, so we figured we would pay you a salary closer to a veteran journey quarterback...but if you happen to win the Super Bowl again, come back and see us!.....hehe."

Problem is though, is that you wouldn't be saying this to top tiered players, but to Vinny Testeverde, Michael Pittman, and Darnay Scott...and not winning many Super Bowls!

[VIKING FAN]

Add Keyshawn with Moss? That'd be a double waste. Culpepper would still drop dink passes to his back or run with the ball.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Keyshawn is not the reason they are 4-6. If they are 6-4 does Keyshawn get sent down? Of course not. It's just an old gimmick used by Gruden to keep fingers from being pointed at him. Keyshawn just provided a nice target because he is outspoken too much for his own good and apparently it worked just fine.

[Dutch]

Keyshawn is not the reason they are 4-6. If they are 6-4 does Keyshawn get sent down? Of course not. It's just an old gimmick used by Gruden to keep fingers from being pointed at him. Keyshawn just provided a nice target because he is outspoken too much for his own good and apparently it worked just fine.

Gruden even said he wasn't the reason the team is 4-6. You did know that right? I mean, McKay and Gruden said that on more than one occassion, I think it was during the press conferences, actually.

[HornedFrog Purple]

If you put up with it when you win, then you put up with it when you lose.

[haji1]

When you are winning you maintain status quo. When you are losing, changes need to be made.

[Dutch]

If you put up with it when you win, then you put up with it when you lose.

Were you saying that about management, the coach, the other players who were complaining, the fans, or to KJ himself?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally posted by haji1
When you are winning you maintain status quo. When you are losing, changes need to be made.

So why that change? There are a dozen other things that they could've done. Again, I am not saying that they made the wrong move. I'm saying that if this is truly not about winning and losing, then this change could've been made anytime. As much as Gruden and McKay are trying to say the right things, they really come off as making Keyshawn look like a scapegoat here. Keyshawn's a big boy. He can handle it, and he'll obviously catch on with somebody next season. I'm not defending him. The timing of all of this just contradicts what Gruden and McKay are saying.

[RendeR]

after watching the live interview on espn this morning all I can say is good riddence, I hope nobody touches this self centered asshole next year. perhaps going into free agency or trade talks and getting no offers will wake his idiotic self up.

KJ is all about the talk, I've watched him play, I've seen his skills, and quite frankly, I'd have cut his ass years ago for the BS he puts out.

What a complete loser this guy has turned into.

Its all about Meshawn, excuses for everything including the kitchen sink, its all on the management, He doesn't know anything about nothing, but he's just fine with it all.

If he's just fine with the situation then that ought to tell us all what his real problem is. He's not about the team, period.

Good riddence to ignorant rubbish.

[TLK]

Johnson bounces back strong..... already employed elsewhere