College Football Bowl Games/Playoffs discussion

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Do the basketball players not study?

12/06/14 at Xavier TV Cincinnati, Ohio L, 97-84
12/13/14 vs. Tennessee Tech Tuscaloosa, Ala. W, 65-53
12/16/14 at Wichita State TV Wichita, Kan. L, 53-52
12/19/14 vs. Stillman Tuscaloosa, Ala. W, 69-49
12/21/14 vs. Appalachian State TV Tuscaloosa, Ala. W, 60-59
12/28/14 vs. UCLA TV Tuscaloosa, Ala. W, 56-50
01/02/15 vs. North Florida Tuscaloosa, Ala. W, 76-61

Basketball you are talking 11 guys. You can arrange private exams if needed.

Plus the time commitment is very different.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Like in 1-AA, DII and DIII?

That's a fair argument.
And one I've always wondered how the schools handle it, tbh.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Basketball you are talking 11 guys. You can arrange private exams if needed.

Plus the time commitment is very different.

Time commitment is supposed to be limited to 20 practice hours, right? I understand that doesn't take travel into account - though those basketball teams certainly do have to travel, usually multiple times a week. How many traditional students have to work that many hours or more to put themselves through school? And seriously, what is the course load of these guys? They don't go there to play school, after all.

[Kodos]

Great link, cuervo!

[tarcone]

I have always been in favor of a Football degree or a basketball degree. Then these type of guys have something that interests them. School is pointless for some guys. But there is no minor league system and college is their only way into the pros.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Time commitment is supposed to be limited to 20 practice hours, right? I understand that doesn't take travel into account - though those basketball teams certainly do have to travel, usually multiple times a week. How many traditional students have to work that many hours or more to put themselves through school? And seriously, what is the course load of these guys? They don't go there to play school, after all.

20 hours of on field/court instruction time.
Film study and work out/weight room time doesn't count.
Nor does treatment.

In season 5 days a week 4 hours a day is how I see most coaches break down practice time.

Then usually 1-2 hours "non-mandatory" film review a day.
2 hours AM conditioning.
2 hours PM weights.

You've got 10 football hours a day right there.
Add in 1-2 hours of study hall.

pretty full day.

[cuervo72]

It sounds like they don't really have time for classes under the typical schedule as it is. (I mean, school is happening in Sept, Oct, and Nov, right? School isn't just a Dec thing.) I assume they are still supposed to go to actual classes, right? But if there are 10 hours of football a day and 1-2 hours of study hall, that doesn't sound like a student-athlete to me. That sounds like a full-time athlete who might occasionally open a book.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

It sounds like they don't really have time for classes under the typical schedule as it is. (I mean, school is happening in Sept, Oct, and Nov, right? School isn't just a Dec thing.) I assume they are still supposed to go to actual classes, right? But if there are 10 hours of football a day and 1-2 hours of study hall, that doesn't sound like a student-athlete to me. That sounds like a full-time athlete who might occasionally open a book.

Schedules are managed very closely at many schools.
The college experience that so many have, with long breaks between classes or evening classes etc, is lost on most student athletes. Usually schedules are set where class is 8 or 9 to 3 or 4 straight through with no breaks. AM conditioning is a 5A call. And an hour of film before class. Study hall is 11:30-1:A etc.

Of course every school handles this differently.

[cuervo72]

Wait, when the hell do they have time to ra---ay I mean sex anyone then?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Schedules are managed very closely at many schools.
The college experience that so many have, with long breaks between classes or evening classes etc, is lost on most student athletes. Usually schedules are set where class is 8 or 9 to 3 or 4 straight through with no breaks. AM conditioning is a 5A call. And an hour of film before class. Study hall is 11:30-1:A etc.

Of course every school handles this differently.

I get the sense that this is changing with the prevalence of on-line and hybrid classes, but I'm not sure. Do you see this sort of block scheduling being replaced with some degree of on-line?

[CU Tiger]

depends on the school of course. but to some degree.
College coaches dont like online classes because thats more idle time to baby sit players

[HomerSimpson98]

Like anything else in this world, athletes get out of school what they put into it. CU makes some great points, but please keep in mind these cats have access to tools/private tutors/schedules the normal Joe doesn't. I've always said that any athlete that is deemed academically ineligible tried very hard NOT to be eligible. They simply didnt try. I cant condone that or tell them to get a football or basketball degree. The workforce is littered with ex-athletes who are working jobs that normal college grads are too qualified for, and thats because they put nothing into the class part of school. Once they realize that, its oftentimes too late.

That said, for those athletes who manage to perform in the classroom for legit majors are the ones that deserve praise. What they do isn't easy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson98

I've always said that any athlete that is deemed academically ineligible tried very hard NOT to be eligible.

Some could very well be too dumb to spell cat if you spot 'em the C and the A.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Some could very well be too dumb to spell cat if you spot 'em the C and the A.

Reminds me of a story my dad's brother always tells. Says he was in the same fraternity as Dick Butkus at UI. Said when Butkus left school, he literally could not spell his own name.

[Lathum]

Darren Carrington of Oregon Ducks suspended for national title game after failed drug test - ESPN

so freaking selfish

[PilotMan]

Bison going for 4 in a row today! 1pm espn2

[BillJasper]

Another college QB that needs to learn when to slide!

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Bison going for 4 in a row today! 1pm espn2

Heck of a game. But I don't think they're getting their fourth.

[BillJasper]

What a drive. I didn't think they had it in them. Hopefully their defense can slow down #5.

[HerRealName]

That was a fun game to attend. NDSU fans have to be the friendliest group of football fans in the country.

[PilotMan]

Wow, I finally got to watch. Spent the day at the hospital again. Wow. Just plain wow. What a feat for this team. New coach, new QB a whole lot of new players. They weren't nearly as good as last year, but wow, to win in that fashion. Incredible. I couldn't be more proud.

[cartman]

One of my friends lives in an apartment complex basically across the street from Jerry's World. She just posted pics of the parking lot, and it is already packed with people tailgating.

[tarcone]

I hope it was at noon. I imagine it started at 7 am. Gotta get the groove on for the game.

[molson]

Makes sense, I know of a lot of people making the trip down there from the northwest, they would have gotten in a few days ago and would want start the festivities as soon as possible.

[JonInMiddleGA]

My end-of-season Top 25, you know, for the really idly curious

J3C College Football Top 25 (2014 season final) | Jon's Three Cents

[Brian Swartz]

I think the playoffs are a step in the right direction. Having said that, we aren't there yet in my opinion. I take nothing away from a very impressive performance by Ohio State to win the title. However, I still don't think they should even have been in the field. I haven't heard a good argument why Baylor or even TCU shouldn't have been there in front of them.

I think for it to be done right, it needs to go at least a round deeper, field of eight instead of four.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

However, I still don't think they should even have been in the field. I haven't heard a good argument why Baylor or even TCU shouldn't have been there in front of them.

Sure you have. You just find the counter-arguments more compelling, which is your right. But you have heard multiple good arguments, I'm sure.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Sure you have. You just find the counter-arguments more compelling, which is your right. But you have heard multiple good arguments, I'm sure.

I think the best argument for Ohio State being there is that they took the trophy back to Columbus.

[CU Tiger]

I know Id love to see TCU play Ohio State next week

[Logan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I know Id love to see TCU play Ohio State next week

Hell, I'd love to see Minnesota play Maryland next week. Already miss college football.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Sure you have. You just find the counter-arguments more compelling, which is your right. But you have heard multiple good arguments, I'm sure.

No actually I haven't. Not a single one of the fans I know, who follow football a lot more closely than I have, has come up with one. Most of them(i.e. the non-homers) have said they agree they were fairly fortunate to make it in. So unless 'because we're Ohio State' qualifies as a good argument ...

[Butter]

Ohio State scheduled better in the non-conference and won their conference outright. There's 2.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Ohio State scheduled better in the non-conference and won their conference outright. There's 2.

They passed the eyeball test in the clutch with flying colors. That win over Wisconsin, with their third QB, that was the thing that made them a lock for the 4th spot in my mind. Do it with Barrett, I'm not sure it has the same impact on me.

[Chief Rum]

I have no doubt--NOW--that Ohio State belonged, of course. But it's not a bad thing to acknowledge the resume was questionable, and that TCU still should have rightfully found a way into the playoff.

The mistake in my mind is thinking that Ohio State's championship run and some decent Jan 1 wins means the B1G was a good conference this year. I don't think they were. They were probably 5th of the Power 5. Ohio State was head and tails better than the rest of the conference.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

But it's not a bad thing to acknowledge the resume was questionable, and that TCU still should have rightfully found a way into the playoff.

Not "bad" per se.

Wrong. But that's kinda different from outright "bad".

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

The mistake in my mind is thinking that Ohio State's championship run and some decent Jan 1 wins means the B1G was a good conference this year. I don't think they were. They were probably 5th of the Power 5. Ohio State was head and tails better than the rest of the conference.

How can you say that when Michigan State beat Baylor (who was also in discussion for that 4th spot and beat TCU) and Wisconsin beat Auburn in their respective bowl games? Personally I think outside of TCU and Baylor the Big 12 wasn't strong at all. You had K-State too but there is a considerable gap between the top two and K-State and then to the rest of the pack.

As far as the playoff goes, I'm cold hearted, once you lose 1 game you lose the right to complain about not getting in. In a Power 5 conference if you take care of business and win out, you should get in.

[Butter]

Indiana beat Missouri, who won the SEC East. I think the Big Ten is better than anyone gave them credit for.

[Kodos]

People like to bust on the Big Ten. It's like the anti-SEC.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Indiana beat Missouri, who won the SEC East. I think the Big Ten is better than anyone gave them credit for.

+1

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

How can you say that when Michigan State beat Baylor (who was also in discussion for that 4th spot and beat TCU) and Wisconsin beat Auburn in their respective bowl games? Personally I think outside of TCU and Baylor the Big 12 wasn't strong at all. You had K-State too but there is a considerable gap between the top two and K-State and then to the rest of the pack.

As far as the playoff goes, I'm cold hearted, once you lose 1 game you lose the right to complain about not getting in. In a Power 5 conference if you take care of business and win out, you should get in.

Well, for one thing, I don't really put as much value into the bowl season as I do regular season when it comes to conference comparisons. Outside of the playoff itself, where there is something very real to still play for, bowls become a bit of a crapshoot, where teams are coming off of a month of bowl practice, finals and holidays and seeking whatever motivation they can. I don't know that non-playoff bowl games are really good measures for the relative strength of conferences.

I would agree that the Big 12 wasn't terribly strong top to bottom. There was more top to bottom consistency in the B1G, once you got past Ohio State being much better than the rest of the conference. I could be talked into the B1G ranking ahead of the Big 12 or the ACC, but regardless, it would be close.

As for the playoff, the irony is that you're saying that the only team who's fans have the right to argue to be in is Florida State--and they would probably be the team I would have dropped in favor of TCU lol.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Indiana beat Missouri, who won the SEC East. I think the Big Ten is better than anyone gave them credit for.

Ohio State lost to VT, who lost to Wake, who lost to ULM, who lost to App St., who lost to Liberty, who lost to Charleston Southern, who lost to Presbyterian.

6-5 Presbyterian is the best team in college football.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Ohio State lost to VT, who lost to Wake, who lost to ULM, who lost to App St., who lost to Liberty, who lost to Charleston Southern, who lost to Presbyterian.

6-5 Presbyterian is the best team in college football.

Ohio State lost to Virginia Tech who lost to Wake Forest who lost to Florida State who lost to Oregon who lost to... akkk

I took my son to the game on Monday night. It was a great experience outside of a mentally unstable, drunk Oregon fan next to me. At least he stumbled out of the game early and I could enjoy the 4th quarter without watching for a shank.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Well, for one thing, I don't really put as much value into the bowl season as I do regular season when it comes to conference comparisons. Outside of the playoff itself, where there is something very real to still play for, bowls become a bit of a crapshoot, where teams are coming off of a month of bowl practice, finals and holidays and seeking whatever motivation they can. I don't know that non-playoff bowl games are really good measures for the relative strength of conferences.

I would agree that the Big 12 wasn't terribly strong top to bottom. There was more top to bottom consistency in the B1G, once you got past Ohio State being much better than the rest of the conference. I could be talked into the B1G ranking ahead of the Big 12 or the ACC, but regardless, it would be close.

As for the playoff, the irony is that you're saying that the only team who's fans have the right to argue to be in is Florida State--and they would probably be the team I would have dropped in favor of TCU lol.

Wait wait wait...wut.

Only the regular season matters when comparing conferences. Ok, sure.
The only team in the country to go undefeated in the regular season doesnt belong because they werent as impressive in the regular season. WTF. Over.

I actually think TCU belongd in the final 4. No reason for Bama to qualify just because they won that second rate conference they were in. See how dumb that argument sounds?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Wait wait wait...wut.

Only the regular season matters when comparing conferences. Ok, sure.
The only team in the country to go undefeated in the regular season doesnt belong because they werent as impressive in the regular season. WTF. Over.

I actually think TCU belongd in the final 4. No reason for Bama to qualify just because they won that second rate conference they were in. See how dumb that argument sounds?

Calm down, Tiger.

It's just a matter of perspective. Is the playoff designed to get the teams with the best four best seasons or the four best teams? Four best teams at the end of the season or four best teams across the whole of the season?

I understand the value in going undefeated and how that steers the direction of thinking for including Florida State, but I am of the opinion that the playoff should include the four best teams, and I don't believe Florida State was one of the four best teams in college football this season.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

How can you say that when Michigan State beat Baylor (who was also in discussion for that 4th spot and beat TCU) and Wisconsin beat Auburn in their respective bowl games? Personally I think outside of TCU and Baylor the Big 12 wasn't strong at all. You had K-State too but there is a considerable gap between the top two and K-State and then to the rest of the pack.

As far as the playoff goes, I'm cold hearted, once you lose 1 game you lose the right to complain about not getting in. In a Power 5 conference if you take care of business and win out, you should get in.

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Indiana beat Missouri, who won the SEC East. I think the Big Ten is better than anyone gave them credit for.

Indeed.

I'd say the Big 10 was probably 3rd of the Power 5, with the Big 12 and ACC underneath them. I think its silly to claim the Big 10 was the worst.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Ohio State lost to VT, who lost to Wake, who lost to ULM, who lost to App St., who lost to Liberty, who lost to Charleston Southern, who lost to Presbyterian.

6-5 Presbyterian is the best team in college football.

I get your point, but I struggle to think that Vanderbilt could've beaten Wisconsin. Or Iowa State over Georgia Tech. I would argue that both the ACC and the Big Ten are maybe better than they're given credit for, and maybe the SEC, Big 12, and Pac 12 were overrated.

[Easy Mac]

Georgia Tech needed a last minute TD to beat Georgia Southern. Florida was just even a mildly incompetent QB away from beating FSU. I think its more that none of the teams at the top were truly dominant, rather than any conference being over or underrated. I think most people would rank the conferences:

SEC W
PAC10
Big10
Big12
ACC
SEC E

with the middle 3 in pretty much whatever order, since I think the Big12 was top heavy this year. I think the bottom of the ACC really drags it down, because once you get past FSU, GT and Clemson, it was pretty atrocious.

[tarcone]

I don't think the SECW was the best. Those teams got beat up in the bowls.

There was no dominate conference. There were some very good teams in each conference. But there is no way to rank them this season.

I don't think the Big 12 has a chance at the playoffs if the ACC has an undefeated team. EVER. Or at least until they get their act together and get a conference championship game.
That is te reason for their exclusion this year. Had they beat up Oklahoma in the conference final 56-10, I think they had a better argument.

But Jim Delaney was not being left out of the 1st playoff. No way, no how. And TCU suffered.

Big 12 needs to get BYU and Boise St. in the conference or whomever. Get to 12 teams and then complain when you get left out.