Reeves wants Vick back in lineup

[Kodos]

This just seems like Reeves trying to save his own neck at the possible cost of the team's future. The season is already done for them. Don't risk the team's future for a season that is lost.

Reeves: Time for Vick to get back on the field

By PAUL NEWBERRY, AP Sports Writer
October 30, 2003

FLOWERY BRANCH, Ga. (AP) -- Dan Reeves and Michael Vick might need to get a third opinion about Vick's ailing right leg.

Revealing a growing schism over the slow pace of Vick's recovery, the Atlanta Falcons' coach challenged his best player to return to the field -- before the season is a total loss.

``Mike needs to get back as soon as he possibly can,'' Reeves said Wednesday. ``He talks about how he shouldn't come back, but I think he realizes, too, that you've got a small window of opportunity, and he's not getting better sitting on the sidelines.''

Vick said he can't do the slumping Falcons (1-6) any good if he's not healthy. And he doesn't intend to return until he's fully recovered from a broken right leg.

``He's saying I need to get out there and practice, but I'm not going to jeopardize myself,'' Vick said. ``I can't do it. I'm not going to go out there and put my team in a worse situation. Believe me, I want to play.''

In the first firm timetable on his return, Vick said he's aiming to make his season debut Dec. 7 against Carolina -- much longer than the projected recovery period.

``I thought I would be back a little earlier,'' he conceded. ``But I don't have any control over the way my body feels.''

Reeves obviously feels different. The embattled coach gave a totally unsolicited assessment of Vick's recovery after being asked a general question about how the Falcons are holding up during a six-game losing streak.

The coach's message to Vick was clear: We need you.

A Pro Bowler in his first season as a starter, Vick broke his right fibula in an Aug. 16 exhibition game. At the time, doctors projected the recovery time at six to 10 weeks.

Philadelphia quarterback Donovan McNabb returned from a similar injury in a day short of eight weeks -- coincidentally, in time to lead the Eagles to a playoff victory over Vick and the Falcons last January.

If Vick doesn't play until Dec. 7, his rehab will have lasted 16 weeks.

Second-stringer Doug Johnson started the first six games, but he was benched after throwing 10 interceptions. Third-stringer Kurt Kittner started the last game, a 45-17 loss to New Orleans, and will apparently start again Sunday against Philadelphia.

As for Vick, Reeves said, ``If he's going to be better, it's going to be getting in ballgames and not watching Kurt and Doug playing.''

Vick flatly rejected any suggestion he's delaying his comeback because the Falcons' season already appears hopeless. He said the team's record is irrelevant, but he's got to protect his future.

``The opponents don't care about you,'' Vick said. ``I have to care about me. This is my livelihood. I want to play for a long time.''

Safety Keion Carpenter stood by his teammate and close friend.

``He's one of the fiercest competitors I've ever met,'' Carpenter said. ``He's the leader of this team. He wants to be out there, but nature won't let him.''

Reeves originally was told Vick would be out for six to eight weeks. Just to be on the conservative side, he figured his quarterback could be out as long as 10 weeks.

Under that scenario, Vick would have been ready to go Sunday.

``He wants to get back out there as quick as he can,'' Reeves said. ``We're about 10 weeks into it, and hopefully he's close to being ready.''

Vick's prognosis was less optimistic. He began running in a straight line on Monday without much problem, but found the leg was still too painful to do any change of direction -- critical to the running ability that separates him from other QBs.

Vick hopes to be back at practice in two or three weeks. If that goes well, he'd like at least two weeks of workouts before playing in a game.

``I'm not just going to go out there and get things going,'' he said.

While expressing surprise at Reeves' comments, Vick said he doesn't expect the situation to cause a rift between player and coach. Then again, he suggested that his recovery has been prolonged because Reeves wants him at practice.

``I do a lot of standing on it in practice,'' Vick said. ``I think that's set me back, too.''

In the past two weeks, Vick has spoken with McNabb, who acknowledged he wasn't 100 percent when he returned for the playoffs last season. He advised Vick not to make the same mistake.

``I've always told him if you're not 100 percent, or close to 100 percent, don't get out there because obviously things can happen,'' McNabb said.

Vick knows the feeling. He tried to play with a severely sprained ankle during his sophomore year at Virginia Tech, but could barely run.

``If I go out and try to play at 80 percent, I'm not going to play like I want to play,'' Vick said. ``I know what that feeling is like. I don't want to feel it again.''

[Samdari]

Originally posted by Kodos
This just seems like Reeves trying to save his own neck at the possible cost of the team's future. The season is already done for them. Don't risk the team's future for a season that is lost.

Only one problem with that theory. Vick's broken bone has been completely healed for 3 weeks. He risks no further injury to it by playing. This is Vick overruling medical professionals and Blank enabling that. He is healthy, he should play or be suspended. This coming out around the same time as Mike publicly questioning Reeves having him in the game when he got hurt has led me to a new conspiracy theory. He is not coming back to ensure Reeves gets fired.

[Butter]

I'm with Samdari.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by Samdari
Only one problem with that theory. Vick's broken bone has been completely healed for 3 weeks. He risks no further injury to it by playing. This is Vick overruling medical professionals and Blank enabling that. He is healthy, he should play or be suspended. This coming out around the same time as Mike publicly questioning Reeves having him in the game when he got hurt has led me to a new conspiracy theory. He is not coming back to ensure Reeves gets fired.

And the funny thing is, he probably could have gotten Reeves fired just by asking.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Samdari
Only one problem with that theory. Vick's broken bone has been completely healed for 3 weeks. He risks no further injury to it by playing. This is Vick overruling medical professionals and Blank enabling that. He is healthy, he should play or be suspended. This coming out around the same time as Mike publicly questioning Reeves having him in the game when he got hurt has led me to a new conspiracy theory. He is not coming back to ensure Reeves gets fired.

I think your analysis is probably pretty close to the truth, but I always hesitate a little before bashing a player for not playing. There are many examples of this, but the one that sticks out in my mind was Terrell Davis.

A couple of years ago, the team doctors had cleared TD. They said he was fully healthy and that everything was fine. Davis complained of pain and said he couldn't cut on it the way he wanted. Shanahan voiced frustration multiple times about the situation. In the end, TD did end up playing and had a pretty good rushing day. After his lower leg swelled up to about three times its normal size the next day, he went to another specialist who found there was a small stress fracture in the foot that had been undetected.

I usually give the athlete the benefit of the doubt once or twice. When it becomes a trend, I start to get concerned. If Vick really feels pain cutting on the leg, maybe it isn't as fully healed as the doctors think it is. Or maybe Vick is a sissy who doesn't belong in the game. Or maybe he does want Reeves to be fired. None of the explanations are more believable than any other to me, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt this time.

TroyF

[Samdari]

Originally posted by TroyF
I usually give the athlete the benefit of the doubt once or twice. When it becomes a trend, I start to get concerned. If Vick really feels pain cutting on the leg, maybe it isn't as fully healed as the doctors think it is. Or maybe Vick is a sissy who doesn't belong in the game. Or maybe he does want Reeves to be fired. None of the explanations are more believable than any other to me, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt this time.

TroyF

I think there is no dispute about whether the bone itself is healed. The pain he is experiencing is in tissues around the bone. I think that the Falcons medical staff is telling him that the best way to build those back up is to exercise them, and thus running on it would speed his rehab. Vick either obviously disagrees (relying on his years of medical training and experience) or is trying to get Reeves fired.

As for giving him the benefit of the doubt, I don't have time. He is ruining this fantasy season for me, in a non-keeper league.

[Kodos]

I guess I look at situations like TD's and O.J. McDuffie's, and I am inclined to take the player's word if he hasn't demonstrated conclusively that he is a girly-man.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Samdari
I think there is no dispute about whether the bone itself is healed. The pain he is experiencing is in tissues around the bone. I think that the Falcons medical staff is telling him that the best way to build those back up is to exercise them, and thus running on it would speed his rehab. Vick either obviously disagrees (relying on his years of medical training and experience) or is trying to get Reeves fired.

As for giving him the benefit of the doubt, I don't have time. He is ruining this fantasy season for me, in a non-keeper league.

I hear ya Samdari.

Still, it depends about the pain that Vick is talking about. How sharp is the pain? Does it feel "wrong"?

I know that's kind of a generalization, but most of us know when our bodies can't take anymore.

I finished a Tae Kwon Doe tournament on a fractured foot (getting my ass kicked in the process) and played a double header with a broken wrist (man, that was stupid). Yet, I missed 2 weeks of basketball with what amounted to a stubbed big toe. For whatever reason, I just couldn't push off on it at all. No explosion and lots of pain.

On my list of injuries suffered, that one would rank about 35th. It's the only one I couldn't play through.

Again, I'll take Vick's word this time.

Good luck with that fantasy team.

TroyF

[ice4277]

Well, when I broke my foot, it took six weeks for the bones to heal completely, but it was about another month after that until I could do anything other that walk around like a gimpy-ass mo-fo, so just because the bones are broken doesn't mean he is 100% ready to go.

[albionmoonlight]

Reeves does realize that the Falcons can afford to lose maybe two more games to have any shot at the playoffs? I think that the season is toast anyway.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by ice4277
Well, when I broke my foot, it took six weeks for the bones to heal completely, but it was about another month after that until I could do anything other that walk around like a gimpy-ass mo-fo, so just because the bones are broken doesn't mean he is 100% ready to go.

I don't think he should have jumped into the lineup three weeks ago just because the bone was healed. I do think that running - without being hit - the past three weeks would have left him closer to ready now than he is. I don't think he is a wuss for avoiding games until it is 100%. I think he is a wuss for avoiding rehab until its 100%, forgetting that it won't get there unless he rehabs.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

I think Reeves put to much of the team of Vick's shoulders and forgot to get depth at the most important position (Doug Johnson Sux).... Anyways Vick doesn't play Defense and that where most of the problems come from.... I say rest Vick and Fire Reeves at the end of the Season, besides the falcons could use a fresh face at Head Coach.

[JonInMiddleGA]

[quote[ I say rest Vick and Fire Reeves at the end of the Season,[/quote]

My thoughts exactly

[Buzzbee]

Barring a miracle, I don't think there is any question that Reeves is gone after this season.

I support Vick. He can run straight with no pain, but when he changes direction there is pain. There is very little reason for him to play through the pain. I don't question his toughness or desire to be on the field. He played half the season with sprained ankle when VT played in the Natl. Championship game. He played last year with an injured shoulder (missing a couple of games I think). Considering how much he'll have to run due to the pathetic Atlanta OL, I'd want to be able to run without significant pain too.

In regard to trying to get Reeves fired, Vick didn't do that. Doug Johnson and a horrid defense did that. I honestly believe that if Vick were to come back tomorrow and the Falcons win out, two things would happen:

1) Dan Reeves would still be fired
2) Mike Vick would deservedly be named MVP (given that he did in fact put up solid numbers and it was obvious that the team responded to his presence).

Why would Reeves still be fired? It would show that Vick is more important to winning games than your coach. Also, rumor on Atlanta sports radio is that Arthur Blank has spoken with Warrick Dunn and Peerless Price in behind closed doors meetings. The SPECULATION is that Dunn and Price feel a little betrayed because Blank pitched certain things to them and they haven't happened, and that Reeves is the reason they haven't happened. The GUESS is that Blank met with Dunn and Price to tell them to just hang on, that Reeves would be gone soon and then things would change.

[Coffee Warlord]

The guy is young. The guy is coming off a major injury. Having had fairly serious surgery to me knee before, and going through the not-fun that is rehab on it, I tend to side with Vick. You know damn well when you feel 'right', and when you don't. He's got a lonnnnnng career ahead of him, and doesn't want to tear his body to shreds by rushing things.

'Course, he could just be a little sissy, but I doubt it.

[Samdari]

Sorry Buzzbee, I just don't get it. When he says he's in no hurry, how can you not question his desire to be on the field? To me, he has shown absolutely no such desire.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally posted by Buzzbee
Also, I, Buzzbee, know as a FACT that Arthur Blank has spoken with Warrick Dunn and Peerless Price in behind closed doors meetings. The unvarnished TRUTH, to which I, Buzzbee, swear is that Dunn and Price feel a little betrayed because Blank pitched certain things to them and they haven't happened, and that Reeves is the reason they haven't happened. I, Buzzbee, stake my LIFE on the fact that Blank met with Dunn and Price to tell them to just hang on, that Reeves would be gone soon and then things would change.

Well, if you are that sure of yourself, I guess that it must be true. You really put your reputation on the line if it isn't true, though.

[VPI97]

Originally posted by Samdari
To me, he has shown absolutely no such desire.

Why? Because he won't risk his career just to help out your fantasy team?

If the man says he's not 100%, then what is he supposed to do to show "desire"? As many have pointed out, the person who knows Michael Vick's body is Michael Vick himself...and after seeing his desire to get onto the field at Virginia Tech in the midst of two separate injuries in as many years, it's apparent to me that he's the type of guy who wants to perform for his team. Just look at the Miami game in 2000...he tried to go, but his body wouldn't let him. Coach Beamer left him out there for a quarter while Mike could do nothing but run straight ahead. He'd turn the corner on the option and just fall down. Mike said later that he felt 80% for that game, so if he says he's 80% now, then it's best for the Falcons not to trot him out there for the sake of Dan Reeves trying to cling to his job.

[Butter]

And surely your opinion is just as unbiased as Samdari's.

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by Samdari
Sorry Buzzbee, I just don't get it. When he says he's in no hurry, how can you not question his desire to be on the field? To me, he has shown absolutely no such desire.

Vick says he wants to play

``He's saying I need to get out there and practice, but I'm not going to jeopardize myself,'' Vick said. ``I can't do it. I'm not going to go out there and put my team in a worse situation. Believe me, I want to play.''

Teamate Keion Carpenter says Vick wants to play

Safety Keion Carpenter stood by his teammate and close friend.

``He's one of the fiercest competitors I've ever met,'' Carpenter said. ``He's the leader of this team. He wants to be out there, but nature won't let him.''

Even Dan Reeves says he wants to play

``He wants to get back out there as quick as he can,'' Reeves said. ``We're about 10 weeks into it, and hopefully he's close to being ready.''

So based on three different people's quotes from the same article, one of them Dan Reeves himself, I believe that Vick has the desire to return.

I don't believe that Vick has the desire to return if he feels that he can't perform at a level that will benefit the team, or if he feels that he may jeopardize his recovery or risk another injury.

[Leonidas]

When I played sports in college my problem was they couldn't get me to stay out long enough to heal. I always came back to early because I hated sitting out and I think most players feel the same way. I'm always suspicious of a player who wants to wait to come back.

My next thought is will he be gun-shy the rest of his career. I can understand the guy may genuinely have doubts about his ability to come back and I'm not questioning his integrity. I just wonder if his personality is overcautious and wonder if in the future will he be more hesitant to lay out for the team in a tough situation.

When you play the style of ball Vick does you have to be more or less fearless. When a guy who has his talents and style gets cautious he becomes worthless. He's not a pocket passer who looks to avoid contact. This is a guy who needs to "get back on the bike" as quickly as he can and right now he's not doing it.

[Dutch]

I have no clue what Vick's motivations are. If it's really bothering him, and he can do no better passing the ball than Kittner or Johnson because of it, he should stay off the field. But I really doubt it. I think the real problem is that he feels pressure to come back and run the ball and he can't do that yet.

As a pure passer who can't run? Might as well stick with Johnson and let Vick get his legs back.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by VPI97
Why? Because he won't risk his career just to help out your fantasy team?

As many have pointed out, the person who knows Michael Vick's body is Michael Vick himself

I don't get that last part. When it comes to medical opinions, I tend to trust doctors. They actually probably know his body better than he does. When it comes to rehabbing from injuries, there are people more qualified than Michael Vick to determine the best course of action than Michael Vick, whether you care to believe it or not, because it offends your sensibilities as an alum.

Irrespective of my fantasy team, I think it is a mistake for Michael Vick to substitute his judgement for trained medical personnel. I also think it is a mistake for Blank to let him. No matter what hires are made in the next 10 years, the real decision making is apparently going to be left to Vick.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by Buzzbee
Vick says he wants to play

Well, this was in response to me asking what has he done to show he wants to play. Saying is different.

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by Samdari
Well, this was in response to me asking what has he done to show he wants to play. Saying is different.

If he doesn't feel like he CAN play, how is he supposed to show that he WANTS to play?

[ISiddiqui]

Also, I think Vick is looking at McNabb right now. Donovan has shown himself to be a much worse QB since he came back from his injury. Of course, McNabb HAD to come back because the playoffs were around the corner, and Vick can wait a bit. I think that Vick realizes he doesn't have to rush back (the team is going no where) and doesn't want to come back as half the player he was before (like, once again, McNabb).

[mckerney]

Originally posted by Samdari
Vick either obviously disagrees (relying on his years of medical training and experience) or is trying to get Reeves fired.

Why exactly would he need years of medical training to tell whether he can play or not?

He knows what's going on with his body better than any doctors do. If I'm an athelete coming back from an injury even if I've been told by the trainers that it's healed, it's not completely healed if I still don't feel like I can play with it.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by ISiddiqui
Also, I think Vick is looking at McNabb right now. Donovan has shown himself to be a much worse QB since he came back from his injury. Of course, McNabb HAD to come back because the playoffs were around the corner, and Vick can wait a bit. I think that Vick realizes he doesn't have to rush back (the team is going no where) and doesn't want to come back as half the player he was before (like, once again, McNabb).

This, putting behind all the speculation and conspiracy, is the reason he is taking it slow. McNabb told him he was not 100% until March after his injury. McNabb told him several weeks ago not to comeback too until he is completely healed, and so did Blank (you know, the guy who signs his checks). He is following their advice. That is all there is to this story.

I'll be happy if he is back in December. Just as long as he gets some play under his belt and gets himself ready for his next coach.

[Axxon]

Whatever the reason he's deciding not to play is great by me.

Whether he just wants to sit on his butt and earn the big bucks, or wants his coach fired or has a body that can't heal a 6 wk injury in less than 16 it doesn't matter. It makes the guy a loser, as in, losing ballgames and losing teams, not a loser in life. He's not the guy you build your team around because he's as likely as not to be sitting on the sidelines playing cards or something when the chips are down.

I'm glad he's on a division rival because I can see him looking all world at times and having people fawn all over him only to watch him fold come december and january. Now, I'd certainly want a guy with his talent level on the team but I wouldn't build the team around the guy; that would be a mistake. Atlanta better get some warriors out there who can get the job done or there's going to be a lot of disappointments the next few years.

Let me say one last thing. He may be saying one thing but his actions are giving off an entirely different story. Whether you can or can't, if you want to be a leader you have to act like you want to. Whining about having to stand and view practices, and insinuating that's the reason for the extra 10 week delay shows his true colors. Hell, take a chair with you but be at the practices because you're a young player who could be learning from them while your body is healing. You'll also be showing your teammates that you're with them and are their leader. Not for Vick, though.

This is what makes me even happier as it shows character regardless of the injury status.

Vick flatly rejected any suggestion he's delaying his comeback because the Falcons' season already appears hopeless. He said the team's record is irrelevant, but he's got to protect his future.

``The opponents don't care about you,'' Vick said. ``I have to care about me. This is my livelihood. I want to play for a long time.''

The team record is irrelevant, I've got to look out for me. No more selfish words need be spoken and for those of you agreeing with him because the season is lost, remember, the team record is irrelevant right, so if you were facing a must win to make the playoffs game, he'd duck that to as he wants to play for a "long time" not necessarily win anything during that time.

Yep, I'm predicting it now. Lot's of records and shoes in the hall and everyone calling him great but his team watches the postseason on tv every year.

Give me McNabb, who'll actually play a game on the broken leg because he wants to win not collect a paycheck. Hell, give me a journeyman and use the cap savings to buy a better supporting cast but don't give me a primadonna who says it's all about me and eats up my teams cap and whines about how it's everybody else's fault that he isn't getting any better.

Just my opinions but it's nice to see a division rival hitch their wagon to a "star" like that.

[mckerney]

How selfish of him wanting to recover fully from a broken leg before playing football again.

[Aylmar]

If he were a lineman, he'd already be playing. But, he's a skill player, so it's okay with everyone that he wants to save himself. It's like the Bud commercial where the guy is talking about his injury not being serious enough to keep him out of his endorsement commercials.

Sorry for the Steelers example, but they're the team I know. Wayne Gandy played the entire 2000 season with a torn rotator cuff. He said that for the last two months of the season, he had to sleep in his recliner because it hurt too bad to lie in bed. I'm sure you could find a lot of examples of guys that aren't as visible as Vick playing through injuries that are every bit as severe (not when the leg was actually still broken...I'm obviously talking about the current situation).

I'm kind of torn on the issue, because I haven't really been following it in recent weeks. If (as has been said on here) the doctors say he's healthy, then put him to work...at least in practice. He won't get hit...and at least you can evaluate his play. I'm like Troy in that I want to give him the benefit of the doubt until he has a few chances to prove out whether or not he's soft.

The worst mistake he could make, at least to me, is holding himself out when his teammates think he should be making a contribution. It doesn't matter if the season is lost. They still have to play, so why shouldn't Vick? Is his career more important than theirs? I'll guarantee that there are other guys in the Falcons locker room that experience pain on a daily basis at this point....and it's only going to get worse as the games continue to pile up. If you want to be a leader, you have to act like one. If he can work with the team and he's not, his teammates will remember.

[Axxon]

Originally posted by mckerney
How selfish of him wanting to recover fully from a broken leg before playing football again.

Ok, he's not selfish. That means that this man of impeccable physical skills has the constitution of a 90 year old man. It takes him almost twice the high end of the normal recovery time ( and almost 3 times the minimum normal recovery time ) to be able to play. Still looks good to miss some crucial stretches over the years.

BTW, the Falcons home page are reporting that Vick has revised his statement of one day ago and says he hopes to be ready by November 30th. Somebody has apparantly been talking to him. Good news for Falcons fans.

[Axxon]

Originally posted by Aylmar


Sorry for the Steelers example, but they're the team I know. Wayne Gandy played the entire 2000 season with a torn rotator cuff. He said that for the last two months of the season, he had to sleep in his recliner because it hurt too bad to lie in bed. I'm sure you could find a lot of examples of guys that aren't as visible as Vick playing through injuries that are every bit as severe (not when the leg was actually still broken...I'm obviously talking about the current situation).

Kerry Jenkins for the Buccaneers played several games with a broken leg. Of course, he wanted his team to win a Super Bowl.

Kerry played anyway. Said it's only a flesh wound.

[GrantDawg]

Vick played with a seperated shoulder last year in considerable pain. He toughed it out because he could help the team and still perform at the level expected. He cannot perform with this injury, because he cannot make his cuts. Why in the heck would he sacrifice his future and the future of this organization to play when he would not be effective?

[ISiddiqui]

I was just gonna make that point GrantDawg. People are talking like Vick never played with an injury before! Last year he was playing with a very painful injury to help his team. He wants to fully recover from his broken leg before he steps onto the field, especially because of the state of the Falcons OL and the McNabb example. Of course he wants to keep himself healthy; that's the way the TEAM benefits. What do the Falcons want? Vick back now and looking like McNabb, or having Vick rehabilitate until he's 100% and be like the Vick of last year?

[Abe Sargent]

I said it before and I'll say it again. This is not about getting the Falcons to the playoffs this season.

Vick sat out a year after having an abbreviated college season. He played great in one year of NFL play. If he takes another year off, not even playing with the practice team, what will he look like next year?

As good an athelete as Vick is, his game still needs a lot. His development demands that he play as much this year as possible, not for some longshot hope at the playoffs, but to better position himself for a run next year.

What about fans who have purchased Vick jerseys and season tickets to watch Vick play? Isn't there an obligation there as well?

And finally, what about the game itself, and the camaderie of the team? Shouldn't Vick want to play through some muscle discomfort so that he can help out his teammates who are wallowing in despair? Where's the heart?

And I think that's what a lot of people are questioning right now. Sure, his leg may still be sore, but where's his heart? If this continues, the question cannot help but grow.

-Anxiety