New Low Carb Study

[Ksyrup]

Study surprise: Low-carb dieters eat more, lose weight
Tuesday, October 14, 2003 Posted: 2:19 PM EDT (1819 GMT)


FORT LAUDERDALE, Florida (AP) -- The dietary establishment has long argued it's impossible, but a new study offers intriguing evidence for the idea that people on low-carbohydrate diets can actually eat more than folks on standard lowfat plans and still lose weight.

Perhaps no idea is more controversial in the diet world than the contention -- long espoused by the late Dr. Robert Atkins -- that people on low-carbohydrate diets can consume more calories without paying a price on the scales.

Over the past year, several small studies have shown, to many experts' surprise, that the Atkins approach actually does work better, at least in the short run. Dieters lose more than those on a standard American Heart Association plan without driving up their cholesterol levels, as many feared would happen.

Skeptics contend, however, that these dieters simply must be eating less. Maybe the low-carb diets are more satisfying, so they do not get so hungry. Or perhaps the food choices are just so limited that low-carb dieters are too bored to eat a lot.

Now, a small but carefully controlled study offers a strong hint that maybe Atkins was right: People on low-carb, high-fat diets actually can eat more.

The study, directed by Penelope Greene of the Harvard School of Public Health and presented at a meeting here this week of the American Association for the Study of Obesity, found that people eating an extra 300 calories a day on a very low-carb regimen lost just as much during a 12-week study as those on a standard lowfat diet.

Over the course of the study, they consumed an extra 25,000 calories. That should have added up to about seven pounds. But for some reason, it did not.

"There does indeed seem to be something about a low-carb diet that says you can eat more calories and lose a similar amount of weight," Greene said.

A calorie just a calorie?
That strikes at one of the most revered beliefs in nutrition: A calorie is a calorie is a calorie. It does not matter whether they come from bacon or mashed potatoes; they all go on the waistline in just the same way.

Not even Greene says this settles the case, but some at the meeting found her report fascinating.

"A lot of our assumptions about a calorie is a calorie are being challenged," said Marlene Schwartz of Yale. "As scientists, we need to be open-minded."

Others, though, found the data hard to swallow.

"It doesn't make sense, does it?" said Barbara Rolls of Pennsylvania State University. "It violates the laws of thermodynamics. No one has ever found any miraculous metabolic effects."

In the study, 21 overweight volunteers were divided into three categories: Two groups were randomly assigned to either lowfat or low-carb diets with 1,500 calories for women and 1,800 for men; a third group was also low-carb but got an extra 300 calories a day.

The study was unique because all the food was prepared at an upscale Italian restaurant in Cambridge, Massachusetts, so researchers knew exactly what they ate. Most earlier studies simply sent people home with diet plans to follow as best they could.

Each afternoon, the volunteers picked up that evening's dinner, a bedtime snack and the next day's breakfast and lunch. Instead of lots of red meat and saturated fat, which many find disturbing about low-carb diets, these people ate mostly fish, chicken, salads, vegetables and unsaturated oils.

"This is not what people think of when they think about an Atkins diet," Greene said. Nevertheless, the Atkins organization agreed to pay for the research, though it had no input into the study's design, conduct or analysis.

Raising questions
Everyone's food looked similar but was cooked to different recipes. The low-carb meals were 5 percent carbohydrate, 15 percent protein and 65 percent fat. The rest got 55 percent carbohydrate, 15 percent protein and 30 percent fat.

In the end, everyone lost weight. Those on the lower-cal, low-carb regimen took off 23 pounds, while people who got the same calories on the lowfat approach lost 17 pounds. The big surprise, though, was that volunteers getting the extra 300 calories a day of low-carb food lost 20 pounds.

"It's very intriguing, but it raises more questions than it answers," said Gary Foster of the University of Pennsylvania. "There is lots of data to suggest this shouldn't be true."

Greene said she can only guess why the people getting the extra calories did so well. Maybe they burned up more calories digesting their food.

Dr. Samuel Klein of Washington University, the obesity organization's president, called the results "hard to believe" and said perhaps the people eating more calories also got more exercise or they were less apt to cheat because they were less hungry.

[Glengoyne]

More and more studies are showing that Atkins was right and the naysayers were wrong. I especially love pointing out that almost everyone on the Atkins diet lowers their cholesterol.

I have dropped 30 lbs and counting on the Atkins Diet. I sort of plateaued for almost three months when I started getting hooked on all of the Sugar Alcohol zero net carb products. Eating too many of those "free" carbs really seemed to stop the weight loss. Consider me an Atkins Fanboy.

[ctmason]

I'm not involved in medicine, but I've never really understood the hullabaloo over Atkins.

I honestly never followed one of his diets, as I exercise a lot and just try to keep my carbs low at all times. I do however, watch my fat intake and try not to eat a lot of cheese or fatty meat. As I understood from those following his diets, fat intake was not as much of a priority. I'm certain he has studies to conclude this is the way to go, and I won't assume to be smart enough to argue that.

For me, with the training I do, I can certainly tell a difference when I have too much fat in my diet. But, everyone's body is different.

Can anyone explain what the major challenges to Dr. Atkins's work were/are?

Edit: Can't type today.

[JeeberD]

I love reading threads like this while I'm eating Doritos and drinking dark beer...

[McSweeny]

heh

i thought this thread said "New Low Carb Subby"...

[Glengoyne]

The theory behind the Atkins plan is that you eschew carbohydrates, and favor carbohydrates. Fats do not matter, in fact, in some cases they are encouraged, as fats are very satisfying. The driving concept is that if your body can't simply convert the carbohydrates you eat into energy, it will go to it's second source for energy, your fat cells. So by only providing a few carbs in your diet, your body needs energy, and gets it from the fat cells in a process called ketosis.

Most of the criticisms I have seen have been along the lines of. Well if you are eating all that red meat your cholesterol HAS to go up. Well not the case.

Also popular is the ketosis is bad you will end up with ketoacidosis. Ketoacidosis is a condition brought on by staying in extreme ketosis for an extended period of time. Since the Atkins diet actually includes carbohydrates, this is not really a danger. This condition is pretty much limited to diabetics that are either undiagnosed or poorly medicated. It pretty much means you are not converting ANY sugar in your bloodstream to energy. I don't think there are any cases of ketoacidosis tied to the Atkins diet.

Also the point that is brought up in the link above. You can't take in lots of calories, and have them simply not count. Well that is a principle of the Atkins diet. Eat all the calories you want, just strictly limit your carn intake, and you will lose weight.

[Ksyrup]

My point in posting this wasn't necessarily to point out that low carb dieting works, but I just thought the suggestion that not all calories are the same was intriguing. Personally, I can't say that I've seen this in practice, as Atkins works to suppress my appetite, so I know that I eat less than I use to. For instance, today I've had nothing but a salad at 1pm and I'm not even hungry right now. People tell me that it's not healthy and that I shouldn't have any energy eating as little as I do...but then they say they don't see any signs that I have less energy than I use to. I'm down to 181 pounds - 51 pounds down and counting.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by McSweeny
heh

i thought this thread said "New Low Carb Subby"...

If Jim released a low carb Subby that also had multi-player, I'd be a fan for life!

[FBPro]

My wife and I are on a somewhat modified Atkins diet, subbing some fruits and veggies for the fats and still staying away from the carbs.....it appears to be working. I've lost 17 - 20 in about 5 weeks and she has lost 12 - 15 in the same time. One thing for me is being able to "load up" on the meats I think has helped me stick with it. It is AMAZING how many "just plain ole carbs" that the average person eats in one day. I was shocked when I thought back to my old eating habits....

[Dutch]

I've been doing it as well, but not religiously. I have lost about 5 pounds, but also have quit smoking at the same time which normally adds about 10 pounds in the first month or two. And right now, just getting back to the States, I have been hitting every fast food joint I can find to get my fix. But all in all, I'm still 5 lbs to the good.

But when my wife and I first started, it was rough, I suffered from headaches and was very unenergetic..and just wanted to sleep. But after week 2 when I was allowed to add some carbs I was okay. I think cutting out carbs completely (at least for me) was not healthy.

[FBPro]

I would agree, no carbs was tough and not a good thing. But controlled carbs seems to be a good thing.

[Subby]

Of course Atkins works. It's all about blood sugar levels. When your insulin is spiked your body can't lose weight. Foods bereft of simple carbs do not drive your insulin up to the red zone. That's why stuff like nuts, lean proteins, green vegetables, and eggs are so good for you. Eat those four things and mix in a glass of grape juice everyday and I am convinced you would probably never die...

[Eaglesfan27]

One other concern about Atkin's that some health professionals have: The excess protein load could be difficult on your Kidney's longterm. The solution would be plenty of exercise to use the protein some and reduce the load on the Kidneys. I've done the Atkins before and lost 20 pounds with it, but I made sure I exerecised quite a bit, not because I thought it would necessarily help a lot with extra weight loss, but I was worried about the protein load on my kidneys.

[sabotai]

"So by only providing a few carbs in your diet, your body needs energy, and gets it from the fat cells in a process called ketosis. "

You forgot to mention that it gets it from your muscle cells as well...a common exclusion by the Fundie Atkins People (FAP...yes I just made that up).

[Bonegavel]

I lost 17 lbs in under 2 weeks on atkins and ate like the guy who wins the Nathan's Hotdog contest every year. I also never felt better in my life. I gave up carbs and caffeine and felt awesome. Ever since, I watch my carbs, but people watching me eat wouldn't notice.

[sabotai]

I feel awesome WITH caffeine, so I'll stick with what works.

Caffeine's my heroin.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by sabotai
"So by only providing a few carbs in your diet, your body needs energy, and gets it from the fat cells in a process called ketosis. "

You forgot to mention that it gets it from your muscle cells as well...a common exclusion by the Fundie Atkins People (FAP...yes I just made that up).

True. But at this point, I'm more concerned with losing weight, then I'll build back the muscle mass I lost. Better than gorging on carbs all day and night and keeping some muscle to go along with the rolls of fat.

[sabotai]

"True. But at this point, I'm more concerned with losing weight, then I'll build back the muscle mass I lost. Better than gorging on carbs all day and night and keeping some muscle to go along with the rolls of fat."

Well it's all fine and good. Just lift more weights and you'll be fine . I just find it a little funny how everyone who is gung-ho about the Atkins diet always seems to leave out that part, as if they won't get as many "converts" if they say "it burns fat and muscle" as opposed to what I always see them say, "it burns fat".

[bbo]

I have been on Atkins since June 2nd and lost 40lbs. I have never felt better in my ENTIRE life (even back when I wasn't overweight)
I have never had more energy either. I was extremely skeptical about doing this diet and then after doing a few weeks of research I decided to give it a shot. My wife is doing it with me and has lost 30lbs while my boss also has lost 35lbs. Good stuff.
Just make sure you drink your water. I believe that is a HUGE Factor.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by bbo
Just make sure you drink your water. I believe that is a HUGE Factor.

I believe that too. During the week, at work, I drink at least 8-10 cups of water, because I have easy access to a water dispenser and am basically sitting at a desk all day. On the weekends, we're usually out and about, or even if I'm sitting on the couch, I tend to not drink as much water for whatever reason. And even though I try to eat the same amount of food, I always lose more weight during the week than on the weekends.

[Eaglesfan27]

Drinking lots of water with this diet is also another important action to protect the kidneys.

[Radii]

35 pounds down in 4 months. Though really I have been on a sort of a plateau(read: cheating too much) for about 6 weeks now and have hopefully just finally gotten past it.

I always feel a lot better when I drink a lot of water, so I try to do so on this diet just like always. I also feel better about myself when I'm lifting weights, so I have been trying to do that with some consistancy too, I'm sure both things have helped a lot.

On a related note, I tried the "Atkins bread" yesterday for the first time, with a hamburger, and I must say it was tasty. The bread isn't great, but it is edible. It's also expensive. A low-carb cookbook that I bought last weekend lists a bunch of bread recipes that you can make in a bread maker, and my fiancee and I are going to go out this weekend and see if we can make our own low carb bread. I am inordinately excited about the prospect of edible low carb bread.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by BoneGavel
I gave up .... caffeine

I'm out.

[Butter]

Originally posted by Radii
The bread isn't great, but it is edible.

WOW! Sign me up!!!

I tried Atkins for a while, but it turns out I just don't like meat that much. I like a good burger now and then, but I hate fish, don't like chicken or pork that much. Which left me with red meat. And cheese. And eggs. And LOTS AND LOTS of salad. Got sick of that after about 2 weeks. I lost about 9 pounds in those 2 weeks, but didn't feel noticeably better. We didn't cheat either. My wife and I both decided to go on Weight Watchers and exercise more, and we've both lost nearly 20 pounds in about a month.

Whatever works, though, I say.

[Butter]

Oh yeah, and I love potatoes. LOVE LOVE LOVE 'em. That was another major strike.

[Ksyrup]

That was my problem. I loved potatoes, pasta, bread, and rice. Now I don't need them. And my eating problems seem to have gone away.

But you're right, whatever works. You definitely have to enjoy varied types of meat to make this diet work. Boston Market is one of the few fast food places I can go, since I can get the rotisserie chicken. Otherwise, fast food is difficult to do. Well, there's always the 5 for $5.95 at Arby's, which is great. I eat all 5 sandwiches, sans buns. Just a big ole pile of meat.

[Jon]

My girlfriend is doing Atkins, which means that I'm doing it too, for the most part, since we live together. Arnold's has new low carb bread and there's a company called Le Carb which makes decent stuff that's low carb. I have more energy and less appettite and feel overall much better.

[damnMikeBrown]

I was doing Atkins in support of my Mum, who very badly needed to loose weight. We started in the end of June. She has only lost maybe 20lbs, and I don't think will go much farther. She is eating the low-carb candy bars now. I say eat, I mean she's eating them in meal like quantities. She's just an idiot sometimes.

At any rate, she lost many, many inches.

I lost 16lbs, but was lifting the entire time. I had no problem with the diet, but I finally had enough of lifting just to sustain muscle. I'm back on carbs now, and trying to build lean muscle mass.

The first few days were no good for me at all, on the diet. I was in a serious fog, and just felt terrible. After that passed, everything was just fine.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Well, there's always the 5 for $5.95 at Arby's, which is great. I eat all 5 sandwiches, sans buns. Just a big ole pile of meat.

*drools all over keyboard*

I tried this with the McDonald's Big Xtra too (the 3 weeks I tried the diet), got 2 or three of them and heaped them in a pile. I guess strictly speaking you need to ask for them w/o ketchup.