Notre Dame Student Dies At Football Practice

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

I'm surprised no has replied back saying the kid showed negligence by using his phone while working on a job that could be considered dangerous.

Instead of posting on twitter, I would have been emailing my resignation to my boss as I was getting the fuck off that tower. But I am 31, if I was 22, I would probably be doing the same thing he was doing.

[JPhillips]

When I was this kid's age I focused lights on top of a plywood platform attached to the top of a telephone pole. Worse, the insulation on the wiring was asbestos and I discovered that when wet asbestos conducts electricity. It was a long night on top of that pole getting shocked every few minutes from touching the wiring.

No way I'd put up with that shit now, but at 20 I did was I was told to do.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

But already gone from the front of ESPN.com. And on Sportsline we just have "Notre Dame honors Sullivan". This isn't going to be a huge story unless we hear someone physically wouldn't let him down.

ESPN wants the Notre Dame contract once it expires with NBC. They aren't going to negatively report on things that might upset their access. See Lebron for further evidence.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

The other tragedy is that we are in such a litigious society that the university is forced to say what they have said. If they say anything else, they open up Pandora's Box. That is not right. It is a shame the kid died, but this should not turn into someone's big pay day. Yes, fine the university out the wazoo. Fire who ever is responsible. But the lawyers should not get rich off of this.

As a parent I completely disagree. It won't bring him back, but they deserve whatever they can get from the university. If they choose to spend it on a new home or give it to charity isn't important. Suing over negligence that led to a son's death is anything but a frivolous lawsuit.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

The other tragedy is that we are in such a litigious society that the university is forced to say what they have said. If they say anything else, they open up Pandora's Box. That is not right. It is a shame the kid died, but this should not turn into someone's big pay day. Yes, fine the university out the wazoo. Fire who ever is responsible. But the lawyers should not get rich off of this.

Their child was taken away from them because of gross negligience on the part of the University. I would guarantee that they would give up any payment to have their child back.

Sorry, the actions of the University took the most valuable thing these people have from their lives. They deserve to be compensated for that. You can't fuck up this badly and get by with an apology and go back to trying to make some shit tier bowl while pretending nothing happened. This accident cost someone his life.

[tarcone]

As a religious institution, you think they would be less concerned about being sued. A student died and they are saying things to lessen a financial blow. That is another tragedy.

[Captain2711]

I have worked in football video for since 1998. I started in ny with the giants then to the terps, then the redskins and finally rutgers. Every one of these places never made me feel like not filming was an option. I even filmed the morning of when a hurricane hit that evening. All of the coaches are negligent. There is no doubt Kelly is involved in every decision concerning video. Everyday coach schiano would discuss where to put the lifts for practice. Every coach does because of the grass. Greg would always move around to save the turf and not have players falling in divots. Also he would arrange practice according to the cameras so defense and offense can see there own backs. Kelly is to blame. Being a big east guy I already know he's a prick, this confirms it. I had some scary windy, rainy and cold days especially in November in Virginia. And actually the worst experience I ever had was in Washington when that moron owner decided to land his dumb ass helicopter 100 yards from my lift. Godspeed fellow video guy. They never could win a game without us.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Captain2711

I have worked in football video for since 1998. I started in ny with the giants then to the terps, then the redskins and finally rutgers. Every one of these places never made me feel like not filming was an option. I even filmed the morning of when a hurricane hit that evening. All of the coaches are negligent. There is no doubt Kelly is involved in every decision concerning video. Everyday coach schiano would discuss where to put the lifts for practice. Every coach does because of the grass. Greg would always move around to save the turf and not have players falling in divots. Also he would arrange practice according to the cameras so defense and offense can see there own backs. Kelly is to blame. Being a big east guy I already know he's a prick, this confirms it. I had some scary windy, rainy and cold days especially in November in Virginia. And actually the worst experience I ever had was in Washington when that moron owner decided to land his dumb ass helicopter 100 yards from my lift. Godspeed fellow video guy. They never could win a game without us.

Nice post. Informative and everything.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Nice post. Informative and everything.

And 100% accurate. Captain has been one of my best friends half my life and is my sons Godfather. Everything he says is true. We have talked about it in the past.

[Karlifornia]

Thanks for that, Captain.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

And 100% accurate. Captain has been one of my best friends half my life and is my sons Godfather. Everything he says is true. We have talked about it in the past.

ORLY? I didn't know that.

Nifty!

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

As a parent I completely disagree. It won't bring him back, but they deserve whatever they can get from the university. If they choose to spend it on a new home or give it to charity isn't important. Suing over negligence that led to a son's death is anything but a frivolous lawsuit.

So the lawyers should get paid? I never said anything about the family not getting anything.

My problem with these is that the lawyers get half or more of the payout and that is wrong.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

So the lawyers should get paid? I never said anything about the family not getting anything.

My problem with these is that the lawyers get half or more of the payout and that is wrong.

It's typically 33%. At least that is what it was for my father in laws mesothelioma case...

[sabotai]

Recently in Philly there was a case about a school that spied on students by using the webcams on school issued laptops (they were only allowed to turn the webcams on if the laptop was reported stolen). I remember this case because when the news reported how the settlement was distributed, I was surprised at how much the lawyer got.

Philadelphia school district settles webcam spy suits for $610,000 – Tech Products & Geek News | Geek.com

One kid got $10,000, the main kid got about $175,000 and the lawyer got $425,000.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

So the lawyers should get paid? I never said anything about the family not getting anything.

My problem with these is that the lawyers get half or more of the payout and that is wrong.

How does the family get a fair amount without the lawyers? I'm all for reducing legal fees, but the insurance company isn't looking to pay a fair settlement. Not having a lawyer just means the family gets further fucked over.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

How does the family get a fair amount without the lawyers? I'm all for reducing legal fees, but the insurance company isn't looking to pay a fair settlement. Not having a lawyer just means the family gets further fucked over.

There's plenty of ways. Heck, half of what I do at work is getting things done without getting lawyers involved.

Give money to the family, fine the heck out of 'em (the negligent party), but there ain't no way a lawyer should get more than anyone else in the suit.

If Notre Dame comes out and gives the family say $1.5 million, what is wrong with that? We need to get someone involved to get the total to $2 million in damages, 1.3 mil to the family and $750k to the lawyer?

[Noop]

I think the family can get more then 1.5 million; I think its going to be 10 million minimum.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

There's plenty of ways. Heck, half of what I do at work is getting things done without getting lawyers involved.

Give money to the family, fine the heck out of 'em (the negligent party), but there ain't no way a lawyer should get more than anyone else in the suit.

If Notre Dame comes out and gives the family say $1.5 million, what is wrong with that? We need to get someone involved to get the total to $2 million in damages, 1.3 mil to the family and $750k to the lawyer?

But I don't know if 1.5 mil is fair or not. It sounds low given that likely won't even make up for lost salary over his projected lifespan. Especially given the statements coming from ND I'd expect that the insurance company is going to offer a lowball amount and if the family doesn't have experienced legal representation it's very difficult to get the insurance company to move higher.

I'd agree that a lawyer shouldn't make the most money on this and I'm all for lowering the cut attorneys get on cases. In my experience, though, it's unrealistic to expect the insurance company to offer an amount equal to what you can get through the legal process. Thank God I've never been looking at this much money, but in a couple of car accidents and with health insurance I've become convinced that trying to deal with these companies without legal help is only screwing yourself. I've tried being reasonable and honest and quite frankly that just left me open to the insurance company treating me like a rube.

On one car accident it took me weeks to get the insurance company to offer enough money for my vehicle that I could buy a local used version within 50 miles. Then they wouldn't pay for a rental for the entire time we negotiated the amount they were going to give me for my totaled car. We were left for weeks with a single car because they were hoping I'd eventually cave to their low offer.

Maybe ND and their insurance will be honest and honorable, but IMO that's unlikely and with the amount of money at stake the only solution for the family is legal representation.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Noop

I think the family can get more then 1.5 million; I think its going to be 10 million minimum.

Yeah, they are going to get a lot, and they should.

All you need is to show a jury the kids tweets and an expert like Captain to testify and it is over.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

But I don't know if 1.5 mil is fair or not. It sounds low given that likely won't even make up for lost salary over his projected lifespan.

Assuming his parents are doing the suing, it's not like they would have gotten his entire lifetime earnings if he had lived.

There's no exact formula obviously, and odds are hugely in favor of settlement, but it's not going to anything close to lifetime earning projection.

I have mixed feelings on the whole thing, like I was saying in the life insurance thread earlier in the week. The kid's gone. Obviously we don't know ANYTHING about the family and what goes through their head after something like this, but in these situations, big settlement payoffs are just weird. Nobody was depending on this kid's income. Yet his life, now, will be overshadowed by a dollar figure. Wind blows a tower down, there's a tragedy, and now lots of people are going to get rich. I've read a little about this kid but a lot about the potential liability. That's America. I can see financially penalizing Notre Dame (hell, even criminalizing Notre Dame if someone REALLY fucked up). But all that comes from that is higher fees for students, shifting around budgets, more insurance costs for accident coverage, etc. It's just a sad situation and we try to "get back" this terrible loss to some degree by exchanging money, and PUNISH people, who, at worst, were careless. Which millions are every day in all kinds of dangerous situations and nothing bad happens. It just all misses the point by a million, IMO. "You lost your brother on 9/11, here's a check for $6 million." Huh? I did know a family that lost their daughter to murder and the killer was eventually set free because of some government incompetence. The family never showed up for any of the legal proceedings along the way. It didn't matter. The daughter wasn't coming back either way. I think they found a lot of peace from that approach, not getting wrapped up in the emotions of hate and anger and retribution. (They didn't go after a civil payoff either - which might have allowed them to buy a new house, but again, the only "penalty" the government would have faced was higher taxes for the people, maybe some laid off teachers and firefighters, and some higher insurance premiums). Everybody's different, but I think that approach is at least worth a look in almost every situation. I do blame the lawyers first - they try convince every victim, every family of a victim that their loss somehow entitles them to get rich (and worse, that getting rich will somehow make them whole).

The world is a dangerous place, tons of preventable deaths all the time, and lawyers have created a system where billions shuffle around when these things happen. Maybe all that money shuffling around and the threat of more of it shuffling around has made the country safer, but if that's true, then the lawyers deserve more (maybe all) of the money.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Captain2711

I have worked in football video for since 1998. I started in ny with the giants then to the terps, then the redskins and finally rutgers. Every one of these places never made me feel like not filming was an option. I even filmed the morning of when a hurricane hit that evening. All of the coaches are negligent. There is no doubt Kelly is involved in every decision concerning video. Everyday coach schiano would discuss where to put the lifts for practice. Every coach does because of the grass. Greg would always move around to save the turf and not have players falling in divots. Also he would arrange practice according to the cameras so defense and offense can see there own backs. Kelly is to blame. Being a big east guy I already know he's a prick, this confirms it. I had some scary windy, rainy and cold days especially in November in Virginia. And actually the worst experience I ever had was in Washington when that moron owner decided to land his dumb ass helicopter 100 yards from my lift. Godspeed fellow video guy. They never could win a game without us.

Do we know if the tower was on or off the field? Everything I've read has said it was "near" the practice field. I don't know if that changes any of the coach's roles, or what is standard procedure. Or if there would have been other, "on-field" filming in addition to this one further away.

[Captain2711]

Originally Posted by molson

Do we know if the tower was on or off the field? Everything I've read has said it was "near" the practice field. I don't know if that changes any of the coach's roles, or what is standard procedure. Or if there would have been other, "on-field" filming in addition to this one further away.

At most the lift would have been 10 to 15 yards behind the goal posts. It just happened to fall away from the field instead of on it which could have been a bigger disaster. I heard they had another ez lift which managed to not blow over. Rutgers has 2 ez scissor lifts which extends 40 to 50 ft. They also have a sl boom which goes 85 to 90 ft. It also towers over the permanent structure not "good enough" to shoot off of. And by that I mean just not high enough for the coaches.

[Captain2711]

Originally Posted by molson

Do we know if the tower was on or off the field? Everything I've read has said it was "near" the practice field. I don't know if that changes any of the coach's roles, or what is standard procedure. Or if there would have been other, "on-field" filming in addition to this one further away.

Every coach wants the highest closest view possible. While I was with the redskins Greg Williams actually had me adjust my boom lift crane to go out above the goal posts on gl plays so the posts wouldn't be in the shot. I ended up shooting essentially at a 85 or so degree angle. Scary stuff

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Captain2711

Every coach wants the highest closest view possible. While I was with the redskins Greg Williams actually had me adjust my boom lift crane to go out above the goal posts on gl plays so the posts wouldn't be in the shot. I ended up shooting essentially at a 85 or so degree angle. Scary stuff

Maybe you should do a safer profession, like this - Would You Do This? - Front Office Football Central

[tarcone]

Stay classy Notre Dame

hxxp://www.sportsbybrooks.com/docs-notre-dame-edited-declan-sullivan-videos-29574

[RainMaker]

Yup, the University is pathetic. Especially for one that pretends to be a religuous institution.

Look into the stories about them covering up rape investigations earlier and how a young girl killed herself over it. Guess having a .500 team is worth your soul.