01-24-2011, 04:30 PM | #1 | ||
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90 pages in 60 days: Norv takes a stab at the Nicholls Fellowship
i was cleaning up my hard drive and found some of my old screenplays and remembered that the nicholls fellowship is coming up. the nicholls fellowship is a screenwriting competition put on by the academy of motion pictures to find up and coming screenwriters. out of thousands of entries they pick 5 winners who receive a one year 30k endowment to work more extensively on their writing.
quite a few writers have gone on to success after winning the competition including bragi schut who wrote 'season of the witch'(it's not his fault the execution sucked) and mike rich who wrote 'finding forrester' and 'secretariat'. it's a huge opportunity but an insanely competitive one. i've entered the competition before but never made it past the first round. i'd love to chalk that up to poor luck but in truth my scripts haven't been very good. so in an attempt to keep myself motivated i thought i'd start a dynasty chronicling my progress from notes to final draft. i don't know how compelling it will be (the thread. or my script. ba dum bum) but thoughts and feedback are welcome. |
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01-24-2011, 04:42 PM | #2 |
Dark Cloud
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Love the idea for a dynasty. You can do it.
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01-24-2011, 06:43 PM | #3 |
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in reading some of the winning scripts i'd say the 2 most important components are structure and story. which also happens to be the 2 weakest parts of my game. dialogue is important but apparently less so. in fact some of the dialogue is downright cringeworthy.
now, it's not that i don't know how to write structure it's just that i thought i was good enough to break the rules. i wasn't and i'm not. in fact breaking the rules is the worst thing an amateur can do. professionals can break the rules because they've proven they can tell a coherent story. amateurs that break the rules come off as,'does this guy even know what the fuck he's doing?' so this time around structure is priority numero uno. 3 acts, theme, arc, conflict, resolution. now about that story... in the past i didn't focus much on story because in my ignorance i claimed my stuff was episodic and character driven like the coens or david lynch. act one had nothing to do with act three because it's all just commentary on the human condition, maaaan. now that i''m older and wiser i see how dumb that was. screenplays aren't art they're products to be sold. they have to be easy to follow with mass appeal. meet boy. boy meets girl. boy loses girl. boy gets girl back. credits. everything in between is just glue. that said, i've been working on a story on and off for the past couple years that's engaging, original and completely unexplored by hollywood. it could be huge. but some asshole stole it |
01-24-2011, 07:35 PM | #4 | |||
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so if you've seen jaws you know the basic story of the uss indianapolis. ship delivers the little boy bomb. is sunk departing for further duty. surviving crew stuck in ocean for 5 days and routinely attacked by sharks until rescued.
that's a great story in and of itself but it gets better. the captain of the ship was court marshaled for failing to zig zag to avoid enemy torpedoes. something surviving crew members and other navy officials saw as scapegoating by the higher ups for their own failure to provide an escort. years later. well, i'll just snip it from wiki: Quote:
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01-24-2011, 09:34 PM | #5 |
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how about a post apocalyptic movie? those haven't been done to death the past couple years.
(random thoughts and note taking)
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01-25-2011, 12:03 PM | #6 |
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i've been reading scripts the past couple days and i'm feeling a little disheartened.
the line to get in the club is so long and even if i make it to the front there's no guarantee the doorman will let me in. most of the girls are 9's and 10's and i'm at best a 5. these knock off shoes and handbag aren't doing me any favors either. maybe i should just go get a taco. whimper. little known fact: there has never been a verified matriarchal society in the history of humankind. so, creative license there i guess. the genesis of my story comes from this picture tunneler.jpg what's the air force doing with a gigantic tunneling machine? aliens. well, probably not aliens. but i found the pic on a conspiracy website and they chalked it up to subterranean aliens. which got my motor running. what if the gov't faked the moon landings and the bulk of the nasa program to funnel money to a program designed to create a massive city underground? toss in a little strangelove and the various rumors surrounding the denver international airport and it's a veritable intrigue potpourri. Last edited by NorvTurnerOverdrive : 01-25-2011 at 12:08 PM. |
01-25-2011, 12:46 PM | #7 |
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Good luck, NTO. I'll be following this dynasty.
Read other scripts for ideas and instruction, not for motivation. Obviously, you'll be reading scripts that were not only sold, but made into films -- and probably very good films. You aren't being fair to yourself if you compare your current project with a recent Oscar nominee. You have some intriguing story ideas here. Sort of Atlas Shrugged meets Fallout. |
01-25-2011, 08:38 PM | #8 |
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thanks. i appreciate the encouragement.
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01-27-2011, 08:27 AM | #9 |
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01-30-2011, 10:11 AM | #10 |
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02-10-2011, 09:40 PM | #11 |
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i just found out that 'the departed' was a remake of a chinese film called 'infernal affairs'. did people know this?
i've watched jaws probably ten times. not because it's something i can emulate but i really wanted to study the pacing of the film. fucking masterful. a lot of work, mostly in outline form. my biggest concern was finding an emotional base that readers can relate to. in doing so the theme of the film has changed; it's now about exclusion. i'll explain: the protagonists outward ambition is vengeance for the destruction of the world. her inward ambition is retribution towards a group that she feels rejected her. as the leader of the group she makes no plans nor has any interest in the future(outside of destroying the underground) which is reflected in the group by their indifference towards death. the antagonists outward ambition is to repopulate the earth as Gods chosen people. her inward ambition is to live forever as a messianic figure in an updated version of the bible. in the beginning of the script the protag is in charge and has little patience for her religion and she is generally excluded. through a series of prophecies and theatrics she ultimately gains control of the group and the protag is excluded. and so on and so forth. of course they share the same goal(to destroy the underground) which i hope will be the interesting twist. those initial pages of dialogue i posted are no longer the beginning of the script but are an important part and are used later in dream sequences. i'll post some more pages after i feel more comfortable with them. my 2 biggest things right now are: -am i saying it with my voice? -is that shit interesting? i listen to clint mansell when i write/think. it sets the proper mood |
02-20-2011, 07:52 AM | #12 |
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things are going great. i'm really happy with how it's turning out...
that's a lie. i'm consumed by crippling self doubt. in all honesty the fellowship as a motivational tool to get writing has worked. but i doubt i'll even submit a script as it would be a waste of 50 bucks. i'll still stick to my deadline though. i'm just about done with the first act. i could probably barrel through it and get it all out on paper in a couple days but i tend to type a few lines, overanalyze them, then hate myself and screw off for an hour. that's why- i've taken to disconnecting the internet when writing. it works. i still overanalyze and hate myself, but there's nowhere to go. the pacing and dialogue suck donkey cocks. other than that, i feel pretty good about the structure, which is amazing. i'd post a page or two, but i don't like any enough to do so. so, in it's place the entire new radiohead: |
02-20-2011, 11:35 AM | #13 |
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since i'm not doing anything productive with this thread i thought i'd explain movie structure(or any storytelling structure,really)for anyone that's interested. i'll use no country for old men as an example since some people confuse the ambiguous ending(it's not ambiguous. i'll explain that too) for unconventional structure.
1. status quo this is the world before the story's turmoil. ncfom has a narrative prologue. then chigurh kills the deputy. this sets the tone of the film (see: jaws) then we move to the status quo which is moss hunting in the desert. this also sets the theme of the film. hunting and the one that got away. 2.breaking the status quo moss finds the bad drug deal and takes the money 3. first response to broken status quo mexicans/chigurh are hired to find the money 4. engagement with first response creates new dilemma this is usually the 'big mistake' a pretty common plot device. in ncfom moss goes back to the scene of the crime and leaves his truck. 5. second and successive action to status quo and new dilemma moss has to go on the run 6. point of no return moss discovers he's being chased and decides to fight back . chigurh murders the mexicans 7. inevitable final action the showdown. moss ditches the transponder. chigurh kills stephen roots character. this is no longer about business. 8. low point moss ends up in the hospital. mexicans find carla jean and her mom. chigurh kills carson. 9. resolution well, there wasn't one. it's a tragedy. the protag doesn't live. but the message was wrapped up clearly and the message was what the movie was really all about. obviously a lot more happened in between. but that's the basic framework that every movie has. here's the ending explained if anyone is curious:
Spoiler
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02-25-2011, 12:32 PM | #14 |
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well, there's a saying about writing, 'don't get it right, get it written.' with that in mind i have in fact been barreling through. i'm at page 50 of what i anticipate will be about 100 pages.
i'd put my satisfaction with it so far at about a 3/10. but metaphorically speaking at least there's a hunk of clay on the potters wheel now. where i'm at now, the second half of act 2, is going to be the hardest part. moreover it's where most scripts/movies fail. act 3 is a huge action set piece which i've had mapped out from the beginning. getting there, and getting there in an interesting way is going to be a challenge. it's not high concept but i am trying to screw with convention. for instance themes in movies are always stated in the first 5 minutes (inception: an old man, filled with regret, waiting to die alone) and so is mine, but i hope it's ambiguous enough that people misconstrue it until the end. also, i'm trying to do a bunch of 'head fakes' before the inciting incident. ie: the tornado hits dorothy's house but instead of going to oz she just wakes up, dusts herself off and goes back to the farm. oh well, just another tornado. it may fall flat but, idk, it's interesting to me. i try to imagine myself as someone who reads scripts for a living and sees the same formula over and over. it must get boring. and of course the protag and antag sharing the same goal. which, if i don't get act 2 right will be a complete failure. as always i looked for a page or 2 to post, but hate them all. here's phoebe cates Last edited by NorvTurnerOverdrive : 02-25-2011 at 12:35 PM. |
03-17-2011, 02:10 PM | #15 | |
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so, the rough first is done. which, like i said, is like having a hunk of clay on the potters wheel.
everything needs an overhaul. particularly dialogue and pacing(beats) beats from wiki: Quote:
i've been listening to john updike and cormac mccarthy on audiobook to help get my vocabulary synapses firing so i can punch up the dialogue. i don't wanna go over the top with it as the characters aren't educated. i just want to add a little flavor. i've had to reel things back quite a bit. my ambition was met with the harsh reality that i don't have the writing skills to pull off everything i wanted to do. it's probably for the best. that said, i am pretty satisfied with the shape it's taken. if i can get to a point where i feel decent about it in a couple weeks i'll upload it to triggerstreet. if i get decent reviews there i may go ahead and enter it in the nicholl's. shitty or not, it's still better odds than the lottery. it's silly to post anything as it'll undoubtedly change but in interest of the 'dynasty' Picture 1.pngPicture 2.png |
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03-17-2011, 02:47 PM | #16 |
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Very interesting man. Didn't even know about the fellowship award thing.
What I've seem to have found out about writers is, they have a tendency to over think things which clogs them up. Keep it simple and let it flow.
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03-17-2011, 03:39 PM | #17 | |
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Quote:
and i overthink things to death. but i have a baby with the bathwater mentality where if one thing is wrong the whole thing is fucked. can't help it. Last edited by NorvTurnerOverdrive : 03-17-2011 at 03:39 PM. |
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03-17-2011, 04:18 PM | #18 | |
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Ah man. Just scrap the one thing that is wrong and see how the rest of it stands without that part. I do understand that old habits die hard though. Out of curiosity, have you entered a script into any competition?
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03-17-2011, 05:07 PM | #19 | |
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tbh, i was naive and thought high concept meant breaking every screenwriting rule possible. looking at that stuff now... yeesh. it's a silly endeavor. and a statistically fruitless one. hell, pulitzer prize winning authors fail at screenwriting. but it's a challenge and i enjoy it. |
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03-17-2011, 06:33 PM | #20 | |
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Dang that sucks. Hopefully your next one fares much better. I took a screen writing class about 3 years ago and the instructor was very adamant about sticking to the format. A pretty good class actually, but, a total pain when half the room thinks they are Mickey Spillane and had the next great American screen play. Keep it up, I'll definitely be checking in on this dynasty.
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