Hargrove and Manuel Fired

[Ksyrup]

Manuel

Hargrove

BALTIMORE -- Mike Hargrove was fired Monday as manager of the Baltimore Orioles, one day after the team finished its fourth consecutive losing season under his direction and sixth straight overall.

Hargrove told The Associated Press in a telephone interview that he met Monday with team officials and was told of his dismissal.

"They said they weren't going to offer me another contract," Hargrove said. "I guess they wanted a different personality."

Hargrove, 53, went 275-372 with the Orioles, including 71-91 this year. His departure did not come as a complete surprise, given that his contract ran through this season and the team never talked about an extension.

Jim Beattie and Mike Flanagan, the vice presidents who oversee the team's baseball operations, are expected to quickly start the search for a new manager.

"On behalf of the Orioles organization, we want to thank Mike for his contributions to the ballclub and for the professional manner in which he handled the team," Beattie said in a statement.

Before learning his fate, Hargrove wondered aloud if the duo would find someone with better credentials.

"I understand if they want to bring their own people in," Hargrove said. "And if they want to go in another direction, I understand that. But I'm not sure they can bring anyone in that can do a better job than what we do, or do a better job than we did this year."

The Orioles were 57-59 on Aug. 10, but faded after Sidney Ponson was traded and the injuries began to mount. Opening day starters David Segui, Marty Cordova, B.J. Surhoff and Jerry Hairston all played in fewer than 100 games, as did Melvin Mora, Baltimore's lone representative in the All-Star game.

It all added up to a sixth straight fourth-place finish in the AL East.

Before being hired by Baltimore in November 1999, Hargrove won five division titles with the Cleveland Indians and twice took the long-suffering franchise to the World Series.

He was signed by the Orioles to guide an aging team with designs of making a run at the playoffs. But by July 2000, the team was deemed too old, and management embarked on a youth movement that remains an ongoing project.

Despite the losing, several players under 30 had good years, such as Jay Gibbons, Larry Bigbie and Luis Matos, and the team has stockpiled pitching at the minor league level.

Hargrove's managerial record stands at 996-963. It appears much of his staff will remain with the team.

"We will recommend to the person selected as manager that all of the members of the current coaching staff return, subject to input from the person selected as manager," Beattie said.



CHICAGO -- Jerry Manuel was fired Monday as manager of the Chicago White Sox.

Manuel was a casualty of unmet expectations after the team missed the playoffs for a third straight year. The talent-laden White Sox led the AL Central by two games on Sept. 9, but slumped and finished four games back.

Manuel was 500-471 in six seasons, the fourth-most wins for a White Sox manager. Chicago was .500 or better in each of the last four seasons, and finished below second place only once under Manuel, in 2001.

The White Sox won the AL Central in 2000, earning Manuel the AL Manager of the Year award. But Chicago was swept by Seattle in the playoffs and hasn't been back to the postseason since.

"I understand the industry. I understand the business," Manuel said after Chicago's home finale Wednesday. "I'm not in this thing blindfolded."

Manuel had one season left on the four-year extension he signed in 2001.

The White Sox were considered heavy favorites to win the AL Central this year after adding Bartolo Colon and Billy Koch in the offseason. They had a formidable pitching staff, and the most high-powered offense in the division with Frank Thomas, Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Lee and Paul Konerko.

[Franklinnoble]

Hargrove's contract was up. He wasn't exactly fired.

That said, this is just another sad chapter in the book of ownership f*ck-overs that Peter Angelos has performed on the Baltimore Orioles since taking over the team. Baseball would be better if Angelos got hit by a bus at the earliest possible opportunity. Then the Orioles might have a chance to restore their dignity, and MLB could finally return a team to Washington, D.C.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by Franklinnoble
Baseball would be better if Angelos got hit by a bus at the earliest possible opportunity.

Just baseball?

[WSUCougar]

Rumors are flying in STL that LaRussa might go back to the ChiSox. He has one more season left on his Cardinals contract, but many here think it is time for a change (in addition to those who always hated him because - gasp! - he's not Whitey Herzog).

[Butter]

How about those who hate him because he thinks he's Baseball Jesus?

[Fonzie]

Originally posted by WSUCougar
Rumors are flying in STL that LaRussa might go back to the ChiSox. He has one more season left on his Cardinals contract, but many here think it is time for a change (in addition to those who always hated him because - gasp! - he's not Whitey Herzog).

In my humble opinion those people are silly - LaRussa is one of the all-time greats, even if he outsmarts himself on occasion. You don't get rid of a guy like that, especially when it is very difficult to blame the team's shortcomings on his management style. It is much, much more accurate to pin the blame on Jocketty's inability to assemble a quality pitching staff (which is also tied to ownership's unwillingness to raise payroll). What Dave Duncan has been able to do with their retreads is nothing short of miraculous.

In short, I hope they keep LaRussa around for as long as he wants to manage.

[Fonzie]

Dola-

Originally posted by Butter_of_69
How about those who hate him because he thinks he's Baseball Jesus?

Does he think that highly of himself? I've heard many folks complain about his "geniousness," but I've never actually read anything in which he claims to be such a genius or comes off in a pompous manner. If he has said such things, I'd love to read it.

[Glengoyne]

Originally posted by cuervo72
Just baseball?

The world would be a better place, I feel. Though I dont' need him dead, just bankrupt.

[WSUCougar]

I hear what you're saying, Fonzie. I am not a LaRussa fan, but I'm not one of those who despises him and wanted to run him out of town on a rail at the drop of a hat.

I also agree that it was the lack of pitching that doomed the team this season, although I disagree that more payroll is the answer. From the get-go I think there was an odd (and perhaps even arrogant) expectancy that the famous LaRussa/Duncan duo could make something out of nothing. Injuries hurt a bunch (Izzy, Morris, Calero, Painter, etc.), but to expect great things from retreads and no-names was poor strategy.

That being said, I think it's time for a change. I respect LaRussa, but he has the personality of a (colossal) sea sponge. He also makes bizarre lineups and moves, over-manages, and in some ways seems to have lost the team. Whatever his credentials, it may be time to make a switch just to inject some new life and different ways of doing things into the team.

[Ksyrup]

Interesting factoid:

LaRussa (and Terry Bowden, for that matter) went to law school at FSU.

LaRussa definitely thinks he's great, but in a smug, quiet way. I think he's a good manager, but he tends to let Dave Duncan ruin pitching prospects.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Great that's all the AL needs is the King of 9-inning 4-hour snoozefests. It's bad enough as it is.

Please don't White Sox.. please...

[Fonzie]

I can understand wanting to shake things up and jump start the team, but in doing so I'd think that the Cardinals would want to ensure they'll get someone at least as good, if not better, than LaRussa. I'm just not sure who would fit that description (besides Herzog, of course).

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

The White Sox will never hire LaRussa. Reinsdorf fired him and would never admit he was wrong for doing so. Plus it would cost too much money. The sox only pay their personnel in chewing gum and sunflower seeds.

[Ksyrup]

Too bad. If they paid in cigarettes, maybe they could get Jim Leyland to come out of retirement.

[WSUCougar]

...or booze, they could hold a seance and bring back Billy Martin.

[Ksyrup]

Ah yes, Billy Martin.

A friend of my dad's was in a bar in Texas in the early 80's when Billy came through as manager of the A's. He was, of course, quite enebriated, and when my dad's friend asked him to sign an autograph, he scribbled on a napkin, "Reggie sucks."

I have a photocopy of it somewhere.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Franklinnoble
Hargrove's contract was up. He wasn't exactly fired.

I guess I wasn't the only one who didn't care much for the distinction between 'firing' and 'letting go':

From SI's article:

"Orioles fire Hargrove after four losing seasons"