ping WiFi/home networking experts

dawgfan · 10-07-2010, 06:46 PM

Looking for some suggestions here - my home network WiFi setup stopped working last night, and I'm stumped. Here's my setup:

- cable internet provider
- cable modem
- Linksys WRT610N wireless router

The issue - my laptop and other wireless devices stopped being able to connect to my network at some point yesterday.

I've done the standard troubleshooting wizards via the Linksys software, which primarily consists of power-cycling the router and asking if I'm close enough to the WiFi source (yes) and if my wireless device is switched on (yes). My laptop and my iPhone both see the network, and the signal strength via the laptop is full bars so it seems as if the router is broadcasting OK. In fact, my Xbox was able to connect briefly a couple of times last night before getting disconnected.

However, I ran a wireless diagnostics app I downloaded a while back (I don't recall the program name off the top of my head), and according to it, my signal was dropping on and off - it would be fine for a few seconds, then nothing for a few seconds, then back on.

I don't recall the exact figures, but my signal (when it was on) was roughly equal to what I presume to be a neighbor's network, at something like -50 (in whatever units it's measuring by). My band is centered around channel 6, with no overlap on the closest neighbor's network. There are other signals in the area overlapping my channel, at about half the signal strength as judged by the graph, but I think the value they were at was roughly -70 units.

I was going to experiment with moving my signal to a different channel, but when I tried to access those settings (which is done via IE) it couldn't connect.

When I get home I'll plug the ethernet out of the modem directly into the computer to verify that it's not an issue with my Comcast connection.

The router itself appears to be working - all the right lights light up when it is power-cycled, and as I said my wireless devices do see the network - they just can't connect. Same with the modem - the lights on it indicate it's operating just fine.

One additional bit of info - on my iPhone, it's asking for my network security password, and entering that still isn't allowing it to connect.

My questions:

- Any guesses on what might be going on here? Hardware issue, i.e. the router is failing, or is this likely to be on the software side? Is it worth trying to reinstall the router software and (presumably) resetting everything with the router?

- Should a neighbor's signal be roughly equal (and sometimes stronger) than mine? Should I be looking for a router with a stronger signal output?

- Any insight on to how much signal interference is generally an issue?

Alan T · 10-07-2010, 08:39 PM

A few things left out that you probably want to look at.

You did not mention if your connection works ok if you connect a computer wired to the linksys wrt610n. See if you can connect to it wired and verify it is ok.

While connected to it wired, login to the admin page and see if you see your wireless devices associating with it when they are saying they connected.

Did you change the default SSID on the Router, or is it left at the default? It is a possibility if left at the default SSID and your neighbor gets the same type of router that you may encounter a competing problem. (May also explain why entering the password is not allowing it to connect).

If you are able to connect wired to it, and that works fine to the internet as well as to the admin page, and you do see your devices associating to it, you can try changing the channel it is using, and/or changing the SSID (if you left it as default) and see if either of those actions help fix anything.

If still no good, you can try resetting the router to factory defaults, see if that clears things up as well.

As for a more power router, the WRT610N isn't an awful router by any means, and unless you are in a huge area of coverage, you really shouldn't need a stronger signal. If it is not working when you are directly next to it, that is not a signal strength issue, something else is happening either interference wise, settings wise or some kind of conflict.

The only other thing I could think of would be other devices such as cordless phones that may interfere with it. I've seen strange things with microwaves too. The WRT610N is a dual band router though, so that shouldn't necessarily be a huge issue unless something is up with that configuration, or you are only using one band for some reason (your wireless cards on your devices can't support the 5 Ghz or something)

SteveMax58 · 10-08-2010, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I don't recall the exact figures, but my signal (when it was on) was roughly equal to what I presume to be a neighbor's network, at something like -50 (in whatever units it's measuring by). My band is centered around channel 6, with no overlap on the closest neighbor's network. There are other signals in the area overlapping my channel, at about half the signal strength as judged by the graph, but I think the value they were at was roughly -70 units.

I was going to experiment with moving my signal to a different channel, but when I tried to access those settings (which is done via IE) it couldn't connect.

So your channel is 6? What channel was your neighbor's?

That could very well cause RF issues for your connected devices with symptoms that you've mentioned (i.e. works for a few seconds...stops working).

I would try changing the channel from anything else you see and don't forget you'll likely need to change your connected devices to look at this new channel.

DanGarion · 10-08-2010, 09:58 AM

I'm going to assume that you aren't having problems with a computer directly hardwired to your router, since you didn't mention that. Thus it really is a moot point to test the service direct to your cable modem (unless you haven't been able to get to the internet via hardwire already)

Although I don't typically see issues with overlapping channels with today's routers like I used to, that probably the first thing I would change.

If you don't want to do a reset on your router to default settings this is what I would do on the devices having connection issues. Go to the wireless settings on your computer/devices and remove the listing of the router you are trying to connect to. And then reconfigure it back once you are able to find the router again.

Also since you are having issues, now would probably be a good time to download and install any new firmware for your router.

What type of encryption are you using?

dawgfan · 10-08-2010, 01:10 PM

Didn't have much time to fiddle with it last night, but I did connect the laptop to the router via ethernet and I was indeed getting a good connection, so the issue is in the WiFi.

Regarding the channels - based off the diagnostic program I have, the neighbor that has an equivalent strength signal is on a different channel that doesn't seem to have any overlap with mine - I think he's on channel 12 or 13.

Tonight/tomorrow with the laptop connected via ethernet I'll check for new firmware and software and try reconfiguring the router.

I'm just puzzled as to what caused it to stop working...

PilotMan · 10-08-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I'm just puzzled as to what caused it to stop working...

How old is it?

cartman · 10-08-2010, 01:58 PM

Are you using DHCP or static IP addresses? I've seen where for whatever reason the wireless connection stops talking to the DHCP server.

dawgfan · 10-08-2010, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan

How old is it?

I bought it sometime around May-June of last year.

dawgfan · 10-08-2010, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

Are you using DHCP or static IP addresses? I've seen where for whatever reason the wireless connection stops talking to the DHCP server.

Not sure, I don't recall what settings I used when I set it up.

RainMaker · 10-08-2010, 02:31 PM

Have you tried a hard reset of the whole unit? The router should have a tiny pin prick sized hole in the back that you push in for like 10 seconds and it will reset everything. Maybe try that and reconfiguring like it's a brand new device and seeing if it works.

I had something similar and did that and got things rolling agian. If it worked in the past, it's highly unlikely that there is some interference causing it to not connect at all.

PilotMan · 10-08-2010, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

Are you using DHCP or static IP addresses? I've seen where for whatever reason the wireless connection stops talking to the DHCP server.

I have had this too, but it was on an old router that was failing. It worked like that for a bit, before it totally crapped out. Like I said in a previous thread. Routers are cheap, get a new router.

dawgfan · 10-09-2010, 02:08 AM

Jeebus, I don't know what voodoo is going on here. A recap of tonight:

- Plugged the ethernet directly from the cable modem to the laptop to verify that the signal was fine and consistent from the cable, which it was;
- Plugged the ethernet from the router into the laptop to verify the router is working, which it is;
- Downloaded the latest firmware for the router and installed it (though it should be noted that I'm pretty sure I already had this firmware installed); still no go on the wireless;
- Ran through the wizards for troubleshooting the wireless again, both the default Windows wizard and the Linksys software wizards, still no go;
- Uninstalled the Linksys software, hit the reset button on the back of the router until the lights indicated it was done, completely unplugged the router, reinstalled the software and reconfigured the router; this resulted in me now being able to connect to my 5 GHz band, but not the 2.4 GHz band (which is what I had been connecting to previously);
- Since I had reinstalled my software, updated the firmware again to the latest - this resulted in now losing my ability to connect to the 5 GHz band too, and I was back to square one;
- About ready to throw the fucking router at a brick wall, I plugged the ethernet from the router into the laptop so I could come on here and vent, and lo and behold now my wireless connection works again

WTF? Anyone know enough about these things to have a guess as to what happened and why it decided to start working again?

dawgfan · 10-09-2010, 12:49 PM

Voodoo indeed. I've taken one step back - I can connect to the 5 GHz band, but not the 2.4 GHz band. I'd call it good, but it doesn't appear my iPhone can connect to the 5 GHz band. Not a deal-breaker, but it was nice to have my phone on WiFi in the house. And I still have no idea why the 2.4 GHz has stopped working when that was what I had been connecting to for the last 1.5 years.

dawgfan · 10-09-2010, 01:06 PM

I'm using the diagnostic tool inSSIDer from Metageeks, and it's showing me that my 2.4 GHz signal not consistently on - every few seconds it switches from strong signal to no signal. Hardware issue?

Question for Alan T - I don't really know anything about SSID. I'm certain I've left those settings at default - if I were to change them, is it self-evident what I'm changing the settings to?

terpkristin · 10-09-2010, 03:51 PM

Sounds to me like it might be a hardware issue. I'm no expert on routers or networking in general, but I wonder if it ever happens that the radio for one of the frequencies can die.

/tk

Alan T · 10-09-2010, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I'm using the diagnostic tool inSSIDer from Metageeks, and it's showing me that my 2.4 GHz signal not consistently on - every few seconds it switches from strong signal to no signal. Hardware issue?

Question for Alan T - I don't really know anything about SSID. I'm certain I've left those settings at default - if I were to change them, is it self-evident what I'm changing the settings to?

The 2.4 Ghz channel disappearing/appearing could very well be caused by interference at the channel level. As I mentioned in my previous post, if you are seeing problems with only the 2.4 Ghz channel but not the 5 Ghz channel, I would advise trying to change channels first.

If you are at channel 6, that is pretty much the standard default 2.4Ghz channel that a ton of things use out of the box (not just wireless routers, but also various cordless phones and such).

Try changing your channel to channel 1 or 11 and see if it improves anything perhaps for you.

weegeebored · 10-09-2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I don't really know anything about SSID. I'm certain I've left those settings at default - if I were to change them, is it self-evident what I'm changing the settings to?

The SSID could be described as the wireless network name. For security reasons it should be changed from the default name to something unique. Additionally, you should disable SSID broadcasts otherwise changing it doesn't really do any good. Be advised that you would have to manually enter the SSID into your wireless clients if you are not broadcasting it.

Regarding your issue try changing the beacon interval from the default 100 to 50. It could help your connectivity problem. The setting is located in the advanced wireless section.

Alan T · 10-09-2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weegeebored

Additionally, you should disable SSID broadcasts otherwise changing it doesn't really do any good. Be advised that you would have to manually enter the SSID into your wireless clients if you are not broadcasting it.

I don't actually recommend for my network support team to tell users to disable SSID broadcasts. The main reason is it pretty much is just security by obscurity. Because of how the 802.11 protocol works, the actual SSID is advertised unencrypted within the broadcast over the air. So if someone really wanted to break into your wireless network and knew what they were doing, they can find out your SSID far easier than the actual task of breaking the encryption you are using. I find having users that are unfamiliar with wireless networking turn off their SSID broadcast actually ends up causing more problems then it solves unfortunately.

They absolutely should as you say change the SSID to something that is not default as well as adding strong encryption to the Wireless setup however to prevent unwanted users from accessing your networks.

weegeebored · 10-09-2010, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

The main reason is it pretty much is just security by obscurity. Because of how the 802.11 protocol works, the actual SSID is advertised unencrypted within the broadcast over the air. So if someone really wanted to break into your wireless network and knew what they were doing, they can find out your SSID far easier than the actual task of breaking the encryption you are using..

True, but I am a firm believer that as much security as can be done should be done like disabling SSID broadcasts, MAC address filtering, and using WPA2 encryption. Even reducing the transmission range could add to the security but that's the last thing that dawgfan needs right now.

dawgfan · 10-09-2010, 06:06 PM

Ah, OK - yeah, the SSID is unique. My channel setting is set to "auto", but it seems to be residing at channel 11. I think I'll change it, because based off my diagnostic, the strongest competing signal is at channel 10, so I think I'll manually change mine to something lower. There are also signals at 2, 3 & 6, but they're not as strong.

Another question - when I'm looking at the signal display on inSSIDer, it seems to suggest that while signals are on a particular channel, they overlap 2 channels on either side - is this an accurate assessment?

dawgfan · 10-09-2010, 06:08 PM

Also, I should note that the 2.4 GHz channel has been working for my iPhone most of the afternoon now. Based off of everything, I'm guessing interference is the issue. I'll see if things improve after changing the channel.

stevew · 10-11-2010, 04:57 PM

Bumping, since there was a lot of help in here.

I'm getting a wired Blu Ray player, and I don't feel like running a bunch of cat-6 through a crawl space. Also, my wireless begins to fade at this part of the house. What I would like is a device that I can connect my blu ray player into wired, so that i can stream netflix. AND, more importantly the same device would work as a signal strengthener/access point for the few areas in my house that are dead zones.

Amazon.com: NETGEAR 5 GHz Wireless-N HD Access Point/Bridge (WNHDE111): Electronics

something like that?

10-07-2010, 08:39 PM	#2
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	A few things left out that you probably want to look at. You did not mention if your connection works ok if you connect a computer wired to the linksys wrt610n. See if you can connect to it wired and verify it is ok. While connected to it wired, login to the admin page and see if you see your wireless devices associating with it when they are saying they connected. Did you change the default SSID on the Router, or is it left at the default? It is a possibility if left at the default SSID and your neighbor gets the same type of router that you may encounter a competing problem. (May also explain why entering the password is not allowing it to connect). If you are able to connect wired to it, and that works fine to the internet as well as to the admin page, and you do see your devices associating to it, you can try changing the channel it is using, and/or changing the SSID (if you left it as default) and see if either of those actions help fix anything. If still no good, you can try resetting the router to factory defaults, see if that clears things up as well. As for a more power router, the WRT610N isn't an awful router by any means, and unless you are in a huge area of coverage, you really shouldn't need a stronger signal. If it is not working when you are directly next to it, that is not a signal strength issue, something else is happening either interference wise, settings wise or some kind of conflict. The only other thing I could think of would be other devices such as cordless phones that may interfere with it. I've seen strange things with microwaves too. The WRT610N is a dual band router though, so that shouldn't necessarily be a huge issue unless something is up with that configuration, or you are only using one band for some reason (your wireless cards on your devices can't support the 5 Ghz or something) __________________ Couch to ??k - From the couch to a Marathon in roughly 18 months.

10-08-2010, 09:58 AM	#4
DanGarion Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Great Northwest	I'm going to assume that you aren't having problems with a computer directly hardwired to your router, since you didn't mention that. Thus it really is a moot point to test the service direct to your cable modem (unless you haven't been able to get to the internet via hardwire already) Although I don't typically see issues with overlapping channels with today's routers like I used to, that probably the first thing I would change. If you don't want to do a reset on your router to default settings this is what I would do on the devices having connection issues. Go to the wireless settings on your computer/devices and remove the listing of the router you are trying to connect to. And then reconfigure it back once you are able to find the router again. Also since you are having issues, now would probably be a good time to download and install any new firmware for your router. What type of encryption are you using? __________________ Los Angeles Dodgers Check out the FOFC Groups on Facebook! and Reddit! DON'T REPORT ME BRO!

10-08-2010, 01:58 PM	#7
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	Are you using DHCP or static IP addresses? I've seen where for whatever reason the wireless connection stops talking to the DHCP server. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

10-09-2010, 03:51 PM	#15
terpkristin Grizzled Veteran Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ashburn, VA	Sounds to me like it might be a hardware issue. I'm no expert on routers or networking in general, but I wonder if it ever happens that the radio for one of the frequencies can die. /tk __________________ GO TERPS! https://www.flickr.com/photos/terpkristin https://twitter.com/terpkristin

10-11-2010, 04:57 PM	#22
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Bumping, since there was a lot of help in here. I'm getting a wired Blu Ray player, and I don't feel like running a bunch of cat-6 through a crawl space. Also, my wireless begins to fade at this part of the house. What I would like is a device that I can connect my blu ray player into wired, so that i can stream netflix. AND, more importantly the same device would work as a signal strengthener/access point for the few areas in my house that are dead zones. Amazon.com: NETGEAR 5 GHz Wireless-N HD Access Point/Bridge (WNHDE111): Electronics something like that? Last edited by stevew : 10-11-2010 at 04:58 PM.

10-08-2010, 01:10 PM	#5
dawgfan Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Seattle	Didn't have much time to fiddle with it last night, but I did connect the laptop to the router via ethernet and I was indeed getting a good connection, so the issue is in the WiFi. Regarding the channels - based off the diagnostic program I have, the neighbor that has an equivalent strength signal is on a different channel that doesn't seem to have any overlap with mine - I think he's on channel 12 or 13. Tonight/tomorrow with the laptop connected via ethernet I'll check for new firmware and software and try reconfiguring the router. I'm just puzzled as to what caused it to stop working...

10-08-2010, 02:31 PM	#10
RainMaker Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	Have you tried a hard reset of the whole unit? The router should have a tiny pin prick sized hole in the back that you push in for like 10 seconds and it will reset everything. Maybe try that and reconfiguring like it's a brand new device and seeing if it works. I had something similar and did that and got things rolling agian. If it worked in the past, it's highly unlikely that there is some interference causing it to not connect at all.

10-09-2010, 02:08 AM	#12
dawgfan Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Seattle	Jeebus, I don't know what voodoo is going on here. A recap of tonight: - Plugged the ethernet directly from the cable modem to the laptop to verify that the signal was fine and consistent from the cable, which it was; - Plugged the ethernet from the router into the laptop to verify the router is working, which it is; - Downloaded the latest firmware for the router and installed it (though it should be noted that I'm pretty sure I already had this firmware installed); still no go on the wireless; - Ran through the wizards for troubleshooting the wireless again, both the default Windows wizard and the Linksys software wizards, still no go; - Uninstalled the Linksys software, hit the reset button on the back of the router until the lights indicated it was done, completely unplugged the router, reinstalled the software and reconfigured the router; this resulted in me now being able to connect to my 5 GHz band, but not the 2.4 GHz band (which is what I had been connecting to previously); - Since I had reinstalled my software, updated the firmware again to the latest - this resulted in now losing my ability to connect to the 5 GHz band too, and I was back to square one; - About ready to throw the fucking router at a brick wall, I plugged the ethernet from the router into the laptop so I could come on here and vent, and lo and behold now my wireless connection works again WTF? Anyone know enough about these things to have a guess as to what happened and why it decided to start working again?

10-09-2010, 12:49 PM	#13
dawgfan Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Seattle	Voodoo indeed. I've taken one step back - I can connect to the 5 GHz band, but not the 2.4 GHz band. I'd call it good, but it doesn't appear my iPhone can connect to the 5 GHz band. Not a deal-breaker, but it was nice to have my phone on WiFi in the house. And I still have no idea why the 2.4 GHz has stopped working when that was what I had been connecting to for the last 1.5 years.

10-09-2010, 01:06 PM	#14
dawgfan Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Seattle	I'm using the diagnostic tool inSSIDer from Metageeks, and it's showing me that my 2.4 GHz signal not consistently on - every few seconds it switches from strong signal to no signal. Hardware issue? Question for Alan T - I don't really know anything about SSID. I'm certain I've left those settings at default - if I were to change them, is it self-evident what I'm changing the settings to?

10-09-2010, 06:06 PM	#20
dawgfan Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Seattle	Ah, OK - yeah, the SSID is unique. My channel setting is set to "auto", but it seems to be residing at channel 11. I think I'll change it, because based off my diagnostic, the strongest competing signal is at channel 10, so I think I'll manually change mine to something lower. There are also signals at 2, 3 & 6, but they're not as strong. Another question - when I'm looking at the signal display on inSSIDer, it seems to suggest that while signals are on a particular channel, they overlap 2 channels on either side - is this an accurate assessment?

10-09-2010, 06:08 PM	#21
dawgfan Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Seattle	Also, I should note that the 2.4 GHz channel has been working for my iPhone most of the afternoon now. Based off of everything, I'm guessing interference is the issue. I'll see if things improve after changing the channel.

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