Norv Turner signs 3 year extention? WHAT?!!???

[Dodgerchick]

seriously, what.the.eff?!!??

main article - Chargers sign Turner through 2013

San Diego President Dean Spanos signed Head Coach Norv Turner to a three-year contract extension Monday.

San Diego President Dean Spanos signed Head Coach Norv Turner to a three-year contract extension Monday, extending his contract through the 2013 season.

“I’m extremely proud of the job Norv has done with this team,” said Spanos. “In three seasons he’s led the team to three division titles. I’m confident that if we strengthen our roster and continue to provide Norv the assets he needs, this team will have continued success.”


Turner has the top overall winning percentage in team history at .648 (35-19) as well as the top regular-season percentage (32-16, .667). The Chargers are 13-0 in December under Turner and 4-3 in January. Three playoff wins is tied for most in team history. The team’s 13 wins in 2009 are the second most in team history, and includes a team-record 7-1 on the road and a 4-0 sweep of the NFC East. The team exhibited discipline under pressure, committing the second-fewest turnovers (17) and the third-fewest penalty yards (570) during the regular season. Its 78 penalties are the fewest by the Chargers since 1976 when there were 14-game seasons.


Turner’s leadership did not go unnoticed nationally as USA Today named him its NFL Coach of the Year.

[jbergey22]

Sounds like the organization is happy to underachieve in the playoffs every year.

[Dodgerchick]

clearly

he must be giving someone some good head

[PilotMan]

You wouldn't initially lump Bill Cowher with Norv, but before he won his super bowl, he lost many playoff games when he should have won. And if I remember, one in particular to the Chargers. grr.

[the_meanstrosity]

Good for Norv Turner, but I still can't believe they fired Marty Schottenheimer for this guy (or more specifically for AJ Smith and this guy).

[RainMaker]

I don't see the problem with it. It's not like there are a boatload of great coaches sitting on the sidelines outside of Cowher. He has been succesful with them and I don't know how you can put the playoff game on his shoulders. Some bad throws by his QB against a great defense and a kicker ho completely shit himself. It's the NFL where talent is just not that far apart from team to team (especially at this stage) and I think the playoffs require the same level of luck that baseball has.

And it's not like they were that loaded. Rivers is a good QB but not an elite one like Manning or Brady. They have a great receiving core but no running game whatsoever. I think they've underachieved in the past but not this year. They should have beat the Jets probably but I still think this has been a solid season.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They should have beat the Jets probably but I still think this has been a solid season.

You nailed it right here. This is what you will get from a Turner team and this is all you will get out of a Turner team. Most teams have higher expectations especially after making the playoffs 5 out of 6 years.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

You nailed it right here. This is what you will get from a Turner team and this is all you will get out of a Turner team. Most teams have higher expectations especially after making the playoffs 5 out of 6 years.

Do you really think that playoff game was his fault?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Do you really think that playoff game was his fault?

Which one? Losing as 9 point favorites or one of the other 4?

My response will be the same. I never blame the coach for an individual loss. It is the coaches job to put the players in a position to be successful. If them players are not successful someone has to take the fall.

Why wasnt Sproles used more? Why didnt you cut Kaeding years ago when blowing a playoff game? Why is your offense so predictable? Why do you seem to underachieve in the playoffs every year?

These are just some of the questions Id love to ask him in an interview room.

[Kodos]

Norv should always wear a scarf. That neck is disturbing.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Norv should always wear a scarf. That neck is disturbing.

Well played sir, well played.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey32

How can you blame Norv Turner? Its not his fault that his QB threw 2 int. and his kicker missed 3 field goals in the game. and his RB Tomlinson gets 24 yards on 12 carries.

Well lets see here. Again I dont blame a coach for an individual loss but.......

The kicker problem could have been solved years ago when he blew them a playoff game. So perhaps Turner should have seen signs that Kaeding is not a clutch performer

Tomlinson has been crap the past 2 years. Anyone with a brain can see Sproles is a much bigger threat at this point.

You put QBs into bad situations and even the best will throw Ints. Its not directly his fault that Rivers threw 2 ints but obviously the scheme didnt help the situation.

[larrymcg421]

It's just funny that Norv gets an extension for the exact same thing that got Schottenheimer fired. And if you want a coach that really can't be blamed for some of his playoff losses, then Marty is your guy. (kicker missing three chip shots, Byner fumbling, Elway's drive)

[Antmeister]

Considering the previous coach was fired because the team didn't advance in the playoffs, it seems odd that this coach gets a 3 year extension for the same circumstances. Turner was hired to get the team further in the playoffs each year. This year we regressed and then blammo, here's an extension. How is this any different than what Marty S. did?

In some ways Turner's marvelous regular season record is on par with what Wade Phillips has done with the Cowboys, but I doubt the Cowboy's owner is looking to sign him to a long term extension even though he did win one playoff game.

Either way, I am just not understanding the long extension if he actually did worse than last year.

[yacovfb]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Well lets see here. Again I dont blame a coach for an individual loss but.......

The kicker problem could have been solved years ago when he blew them a playoff game. So perhaps Turner should have seen signs that Kaeding is not a clutch performer

Umm, Kaeding missed a kick as a rookie and then missed a 54 yarder against the Pats. Neither really warranted cutting him. This performance, however...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Why wasnt Sproles used more? Why didnt you cut Kaeding years ago when blowing a playoff game? Why is your offense so predictable? Why do you seem to underachieve in the playoffs every year?

Because Sproles isn't that good. He's a nice change-of-pace back but not someone is going to win you playoff games. If you're playoff hopes are riding on Sproles, you're going to be out early.

Kaeding wasn't cut because he is one of the best kickers in the league this year. He's got the highest FG% amongst active kickers and just about every team in the NFL would want him on their team. He missed some big kicks in the game but up to this point was still the best kicker in the game. Do you really advocate them cutting the kicker with the best FG% in football?

It's predictable because there aren't a ton of options. You can't run the ball and everyone in the league knows it. Tough to be unpredictable when there is only one thing you can do well. In any event, you still put up 350 yards against the best defense in the league.

But the biggest thing is what would you propose replacing these people with? Do you know of a kicker off the streets who is better than Kaeding? Is there a coach sitting around willing to take over the San Diego job who will do better? If so, then that's fine, but it seems more of a "grass is greener" outlook.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

It's just funny that Norv gets an extension for the exact same thing that got Schottenheimer fired. And if you want a coach that really can't be blamed for some of his playoff losses, then Marty is your guy. (kicker missing three chip shots, Byner fumbling, Elway's drive)

Shottenheimer had a much more talented team.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Shottenheimer had a much more talented team.

Oooh, you mean before they let Brees go.

[jbergey22]

Yes Kaeding is one of the best regular season kickers percentage wise but he is now 53 percent in the playoffs.

Sproles isnt an every down back because he is so small but at this point almost anything in the league is as good as LT so Id take the more explosive option.

Chargers have plenty of options. Best TE in the NFL, a top 10 WR, a great QB, some tall WRs and a shifty big play RB that does great in space.(Sproles)

Who would do better than Turner? I am not sure but it sure wouldnt be hard to duplicate what he does. I think any coach in the NFL could have won that division this year with the Chargers this year and lost their only playoff game.

[yacovfb]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Sproles isnt an every down back because he is so small but at this point almost anything in the league is as good as LT so Id take the more explosive option.

I agree he isn't an every down back but if he was that much more explosive than LT, he surely would have had better than a 3.7 ypc this year. Bottom line is, the Chargers Oline is horrible at run blocking. LT's lost a step, but his token carries vs the Jets really wouldn't have been much (if any) better going to Sproles. Especially since every single run but a few were right up the gut.

[RainMaker]

So you wanted them to cut Nate Kaeding because he was 8 for 12 in the playoffs despite having the highest FG% in football today? Is that what you wanted the Chargers to do?

That explosive option is averaging 3.7 yards a carry this season. It's not like you had Eric Dickerson sitting on the sidelines.

And those options you mentioned were all prolifically used in the game. Vincent Jackson had 7-111, Gates had 8-93. Rivers threw the ball 40 times. So they used those weapons. You are acting like Rivers threw the ball 15 times yesterday and wasn't even factoring Gates or Jackson into the gameplan. The gameplas was to use their best players and they did.

Tell that to the other teams in the league who don't make the playoffs regularly. Who don't win the division all the time. Trust me, the grass is always greener. There are only a handful of elite coaches in this game and a lot of others who have flaws. And since this is the 2nd coach to "underachieve", perhaps it's not the coach but instead the unrealistic expectations.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by yacovfb

I agree he isn't an every down back but if he was that much more explosive than LT, he surely would have had better than a 3.7 ypc this year. Bottom line is, the Chargers Oline is horrible at run blocking. LT's lost a step, but his token carries vs the Jets really wouldn't have been much (if any) better going to Sproles. Especially since every single run but a few were right up the gut.

Good point and it is hard to know. I was surprised he only averaged 3.7 this year after averaging 5.5 the prior year.

He always seemed like a great guy to get in open space to me which is easier said than done.

Its always easy to point blame after a loss so discussing that isnt something I wanted to get into heavily which I take the blame for. The fact is that Norv has always topped out in the playoffs. The Chargers arent getting any younger and I would have thought a different option is needed to get to where they want to go.

Norv is a coach that wont hurt you much or help you much. IMO he is the perfect example of an "average" NFL coach.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey32

There a lot of great coaches that have not won many superbowls in the league.

There also a lot of great teams that don't win many superbowls. The Colts has made the most consecutive trips to the playoffs and have only won one Superbowl.

How many great coaches have a career record with a less than 50 percent winning percentage?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

And those options you mentioned were all prolifically used in the game. Vincent Jackson had 7-111, Gates had 8-93. Rivers threw the ball 40 times. So they used those weapons. You are acting like Rivers threw the ball 15 times yesterday and wasn't even factoring Gates or Jackson into the gameplan. The gameplas was to use their best players and they did.

I'm acting like Rivers threw the ball 15 times yesterday?

You said "It's predictable because there aren't a ton of options." I made a statement listing all of their available options. Im unclear on how I acted like they threw the ball 15 times yesterday.

I actually would have used a more conservative game plan against the Jets as I wouldnt have feared their offense at all so I would have wanted to eliminate mistakes and force them to make the mistakes with the rookie QB on the road.

Running sceens to Scroles and Gates and running the ball a lot would have kept them from playing so aggressive.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey32

Norv Turner is 4-4 in the playoffs.

The great Bill Cower coach 15 years and has only won 1 superbowl.

He was only 8-9 in the playoff until 2005 when he went on a 4-0 run and won a superbowl.

He was also 149-90 in the regular season.

I guess its far easier more me to believe a coach can get it done with a career winning percentage of .623 over a guy with a career winning percentage of .479.

Like I previously asked you. Can you name a great coach with a career winning percentage of less than 50 percent?

[Izulde]

Raiders looking good in offseason.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey32

Tony Dungy was only 9-10 in the playoffs for his career.
And only 5-8 in the playoffs until he won his first superbowl.

Who out there do you want to coach the Chargers?

Be patience.

Im not asking playoff records. A lot of coaches are going to have less than stellar playoff records because all but 1 team have to lose every year.

I dont really care who coaches the Chargers as Im not a "fan" of them. I am just in agreement with the original poster wondering "wtf"

Sometimes a change is just needed even though your team is making the playoffs more often than not. Norv Turner, Tom McCoughlin and Wade Phillips appear to have topped out.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

How many great coaches have a career record with a less than 50 percent winning percentage?

How are you defining 'great'? If you define it as "a winning playoff record," you're trotting a tautology out there.

As far as the playoff winning percentage goes, though, only 30 coaches have even played in double digits in playoff games. If you're not in that group, any given win or loss is gonna tend to inflate your record versus .500, or deflate it, as the case may be.

[JediKooter]

LT, I would say has lost about 1/2 to 3/4 of a step. The O-line was just god awful at run blocking this year and after watching all but 2 games this year, that and the passing game, is why LT did not break 1K yards for the first time in his career. He still scored 12 rushing TDs.

As far as Rivers is concerned, like it or not, he is an elite quarterback and should have won the MVP last year. He threw one interception yesterday that was clearly a bone headed throw and the other wasn't really an interception, but, that's how it's scored.

Now we come to Norvel Turner. He lacks a couple of things that will make this Chargers team resemble the Chiefs and all their playoff runs and no success. He has no killer instinct as a coach and all of his teams play down to the talent of their opponents. There are exceptions like the Titans game on Christmas and both Chiefs games this season.

Now for some quick playoff history... The Chargers are 2-3 in the playoffs after having a 1st round bye. They are 6-2 when they didn't have a 1st round bye. Not really sure if Turner will change the trend by the end of his extended contract.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

How are you defining 'great'? If you define it as "a winning playoff record," you're trotting a tautology out there.

As far as the playoff winning percentage goes, though, only 30 coaches have even played in double digits in playoff games. If you're not in that group, any given win or loss is gonna tend to inflate your record versus .500, or deflate it, as the case may be.

Very good points!

I wasnt really defining it one way or another. Its my opinion that you wont find someone you could call "a great coach" with a less than 50 percent winning percentage in regular season games so I really wasnt expecting a response to that.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Very good points!

I wasnt really defining it one way or another. Its my opinion that you wont find someone you could call "a great coach" with a less than 50 percent winning percentage in regular season games so I really wasnt expecting a response to that.

Oh, obviously.

I was talking about 50% in the playoffs. There are only 30 NFL coaches with 10 or more playoff games under their belt, so any winning percentage by the rest of those guys is going to be grossly inflated or deflated by even a single win or loss.

[bhlloy]

As a Chargers fan, I don't really care what the stats say about Norv Turner. My personal opinion from watching him the last two years is that he's a shitty coach and the team wins in spite of him. The team is undisciplined, he's terrible at clock management, his gameplans are horribly conservative and he is completely unable to adapt to anything the opposition does. If there was ever any indication of that it's the Jets game yesterday. Jets adjust at half time, Norm doesn't and calls the exact same game for the whole game. The Jets agressiveness was screaming for some bubble screens, slants, draw plays and instead it was uninspired run up the middle, uninspired run up the middle, pass deep on third and long against a team that was just pinning their ears back and playing aggressively. Once the Jets knew they needed to go to man to man, cover Gates, Jackson and Floyd and run blitz the hell out of the linebackers and showed that for a couple of series the Bolts should have changed their offense to compensate. Instead (and not taking anything away from the Jets defense, they were immense in the second half and have the personnel to shut anybody down) Chargers are going home against a team that really didn't do anything offensively all day (outside of one big run).

And while the win streak this year was impressive on the surface there were only 3 playoff teams they beat all year. It's tough to fire a guy that went 13-3 but you don't need to extend him for 4 years when he just flopped so badly in the playoffs.

As for the LT/Sproles debate, the line just looked horrible out there. Football Outsiders stats disagree with me but to the untrained eye, I think LT and Sproles actually did a pretty nice job out there. LT in particular made so many guys miss in the backfield all year long, and many of his no-gainers were actually impressive plays to just get back to the line and not get taken down for a 3 yard loss. Sproles fell off a lot but I think it was just teams sitting up and taking notice of him this year and respecting what he can do on the ground. He's much more of a boom or bust runner - it's a nice gain or he gets blown the F up in the backfield for a loss.

LT has definitely lost a step and I didn't see him break a tackle all year, but in terms of making the first guy miss, or making a cut to get through the line he's still elite IMO. The holes just weren't there for the majority of the year for him to run through, and he's just not physical enough to gain yards when the holes aren't there anymore. I'm pretty neutral on whether I'd like to see him back - if we have a shot at a decent back in the draft I'd like to see us do that, otherwise I don't mind seeing LT back next year. I'm dead set against Sproles as the starter, he's just not an every down back in the league and will kill a lot of drives with 2nd and 13 situations.

[Passacaglia]

I think there's some poetic justice in the fact that they lost to a team with a Schottenheimer on staff.

[Warhammer]

Sproles is an elite guy for what he is, a guy you get out in space and let him make a move. You can make game plan around him for a particularly aggressive defense like the Jets. However, you cannot do that for 16 weeks.

Firing a playoffs coach is done much more on team play vs. results. If you get beat by a superior team in the playoffs, that is one thing. When you get beat by an inferior team that is something different. Marty got beat by inferior teams, but they were typically close games that could have gone either way. When Norv loses, it is more of a, "WTF is this guy thinking?"

[Arles]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Norv is a coach that wont hurt you much or help you much. IMO he is the perfect example of an "average" NFL coach.

So, I take it your thrilled with Brad Childress getting a 4-year extension with his 1-1 playoff record (in 2 home games)?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Arles

So, I take it your thrilled with Brad Childress getting a 4-year extension with his 1-1 playoff record (in 2 home games)?

No absolutely horrible giving him an extension. Id put him in the same boat as Turner. Decent mind for football but a poor leader.

Vikings let all their good coaches go. We all know that. Tomlin, Dungy and Billick to name a few.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Like I previously asked you. Can you name a great coach with a career winning percentage of less than 50 percent?

Norv's won 67% of his games with the Chargers. Should the Pats have fired Belichick after his 5-11 season (or 9-7 season 3 years in) because he failed in Cleveland? IIRC, Belichick was well under 50% winning after his first year in New England.

[BlackJack]

So I guess next on the agenda is an extension for Kaeding. Guess Archie was right when he didn't want his kid playing there.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

Considering the previous coach was fired because the team didn't advance in the playoffs, it seems odd that this coach gets a 3 year extension for the same circumstances.

All the various details aside, this is the bottom-line.

Clearly Spanos sees something signifcantly different in Turner's performance than Schottenheimer's. But unless it's something pretty intangible, you have to wonder if Spanos is simply fooling himself.

[Arles]

BTW, I don't think Turner is a good coach, but I don't like making "rules" to decide whether or not to keep someone. I think Jim Harbaugh is a better coach than Norv Turner - but records and "rules" would not show the to be the case the past few seasons.

[DataKing]

I thought Marty's firing had much more to do with him constantly butting heads with ownership, rather than on-the-field performance?

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

All the various details aside, this is the bottom-line.

Clearly Spanos sees something signifcantly different in Turner's performance than Schottenheimer's. But unless it's something pretty intangible, you have to wonder if Spanos is simply fooling himself.

Marty wanted to bring in his son and I can't remember who exactly, a different D-coordinator and AJ Smith said no way. Plus, Marty was a John Butler hire. So, coupled with AJ Smith not liking Marty to begin with and another playoff loss, AJ had no problems getting rid of Marty after Spanos told him (AJ) do what you feel is best for the team. At one point, the rift between Marty and Smith got so bad that Spanos had to get involved and told them both they need to start talking to each other or he will make the changes for them both.

Pretty much since AJ took over as GM, Spanos is just the man writing the checks and has delegated everything to AJ Smith. What Smith sees in Turner other than a 'play not to lose' strategy, I have no idea.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't see the problem with it. It's not like there are a boatload of great coaches sitting on the sidelines outside of Cowher.

I think that you could argue that the crop of free agent coaches this offseasons is probably one of the best collections ever. Other than Tomlin, Coughlin, and Belichick (who are all still employed by their Super Bowl winning teams) and Dick Vermeil (who is too old to consider for most jobs), you had six guys available (debateable, but if you are spending NFL bucks) that have won Super Bowls in the past 15-years.:

Bill Cowher
Mike Shanahan
Mike Holmgren
Brian Billick
Tony Dungy
Jon Gruden

Maybe not a "boatload," but between those six guys (you can argue that Dungy isn't looking and that Gruden and Cowher are being very selective, but San Diego is a pretty cherry job between the location/weather and the current roster) and the regular crew of hot coordinators, I think it is pretty hard to justify keeping a guy who has inexplicably been a head coach for over 200 games and has a sub-.500 record.

[yacovfb]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Marty got beat by inferior teams, but they were typically close games that could have gone either way. When Norv loses, it is more of a, "WTF is this guy thinking?"

Not sure I get this...wasn't this game a close game that could have gone either way?

[Dodgerchick]

The Chargers want a "yessir may I have another"-type of coach. They're not gonna get that with someone like Cowher... it's been like that since I started watching football. That's why Bobby Ross (yeah I still hold that grudge) and Marty were let go, they weren't that type of coach.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

The Chargers want a "yessir may I have another"-type of coach. They're not gonna get that with someone like Cowher... it's been like that since I started watching football. That's why Bobby Ross (yeah I still hold that grudge) and Marty were let go, they weren't that type of coach.

Good call. Never thought of it that wayy before, but good call.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Arles

Norv's won 67% of his games with the Chargers. Should the Pats have fired Belichick after his 5-11 season (or 9-7 season 3 years in) because he failed in Cleveland? IIRC, Belichick was well under 50% winning after his first year in New England.

Well obviously no you wouldnt have fired Belichek looking back. I dont really see the comparison though. Norv has coached 12 seasons so he has a decent sample size to go off of.(90-96 career) Like I said earlier it wouldnt take a magician to win 13 games in that division with this talented team.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

The Chargers want a "yessir may I have another"-type of coach. They're not gonna get that with someone like Cowher... it's been like that since I started watching football. That's why Bobby Ross (yeah I still hold that grudge) and Marty were let go, they weren't that type of coach.

Nailed it.