Joshua Cribbs' agent might have a screw loose.

[CleBrownsfan]

He'll sign with the Browns. That was just their 1st low-ball offer. My guess he'll eventually get 2.5 mil a year for the next 3 years.

[CleBrownsfan]

Originally Posted by lungs

I don't understand this idea where people think when an NFL player signs a contract they are obligated to fulfill it when the team can cut them from any remaining obligation at any time without paying them a dime (signing bonus excluded of course).

I've always had a problem with teams just being to cut a guy without fulfilling their contract. I think teams should be obligated to pay the players if they cut them.

[Apathetic Lurker]

How can his agent threaten a demand for a trade if he says his client didnt have any years left on his contract/

[lungs]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

I've always had a problem with teams just being to cut a guy without fulfilling their contract. I think teams should be obligated to pay the players if they cut them.

Yeah, guaranteed contracts. I don't have a problem if you feel both sides should fulfill their contract. But as it stands right now, the only recourse players have to counteract the non-guaranteed nature of NFL contracts is to hold out and demand trades and come off as a jackass to those that don't understand that it's their only recourse.

[Jughead Spock]

Having attended an actual Browns game I should say that the stadium was more pro-Joshua Cribbs than any other play. I saw more Cribbs jerseys that than of any other current Browns player. They cheered him louder and longer than any other.

Here's the real point. Butts in the seats. Attendance (such as it is) would plummet even more if they let Cribbs go.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

He'll sign with the Browns. That was just their 1st low-ball offer. My guess he'll eventually get 2.5 mil a year for the next 3 years.

That's my take as well. If they came out with 2.5 mil a year to begin with, they would have had to negotiate up from there.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Apathetic Lurker

How can his agent threaten a demand for a trade if he says his client didnt have any years left on his contract/

He just meant that Cribbs doesn't plan to honor the remaining years of the contract.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

He just meant that Cribbs doesn't plan to honor the remaining years of the contract.

ah..guess all this doublespeak and mumblygook confuses this foreigner

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Apathetic Lurker

How can his agent threaten a demand for a trade if he says his client didnt have any years left on his contract/

Very simple. A team trading for him would give him a new contract. You wouldn't be stupid enough to trade for him without getting that done.

He's simply better than the contract he signed. Far better. He's one of the top players on that team. We aren't talking starting QB/LT/DE money here. We are talking about 3 million a year for a guy is amazing at what he does, is a clear fan favorite, plays his heart out and is in the prime of his career.

Derek Anderson had a good year and they gave him a big contract. Yet Cribbs has played well for 5 years and you want to pay him like a fourth round pick? Morons.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Very simple. A team trading for him would give him a new contract. You wouldn't be stupid enough to trade for him without getting that done.

He's simply better than the contract he signed. Far better. He's one of the top players on that team. We aren't talking starting QB/LT/DE money here. We are talking about 3 million a year for a guy is amazing at what he does, is a clear fan favorite, plays his heart out and is in the prime of his career.

Derek Anderson had a good year and they gave him a big contract. Yet Cribbs has played well for 5 years and you want to pay him like a fourth round pick? Morons.

hes played well.... but if you traded him what do you think he would bring in? was he a fourth round pick? that seems about right to me. hes a friggin kick returner.... 1.5 mil sounds like too much for me. if they pay him any more its becasue of fans not ability.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

hes played well.... but if you traded him what do you think he would bring in? was he a fourth round pick? that seems about right to me. hes a friggin kick returner.... 1.5 mil sounds like too much for me. if they pay him any more its becasue of fans not ability.

He's not JUST a kick returner though!

[MajikMan77]

Originally Posted by Jughead Spock

Here's the real point. Butts in the seats. Attendance (such as it is) would plummet even more if they let Cribbs go.

Being serious about putting a winning product on the field will do that too but they appear not willing todo so, hence the (so far) decision not to up their offer on one of their only good players.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

hes played well.... but if you traded him what do you think he would bring in? was he a fourth round pick? that seems about right to me. hes a friggin kick returner.... 1.5 mil sounds like too much for me. if they pay him any more its becasue of fans not ability.

He was a UFA pickup

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

He's not JUST a kick returner though!

ok, hes only USEFUL as a kick returner!

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

ok, hes only USEFUL as a kick returner!

I get the feeling a lot of people didn't watch many Browns games this year.

He was quite good in the Wildcat as the team won their last four games. As in, a serious threat rushing the ball.

I would LOVE the Patriots to get him for 2.5 M/year.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

ok, hes only USEFUL as a kick returner!

He averaged 6.9 YPC on 55 carries and had 20 catches, as well. He is useful with the ball in his hands and, aside from 1/4 a season from Jerome Harrison, pretty much the only offensive threat on that team.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

hes played well.... but if you traded him what do you think he would bring in? was he a fourth round pick? that seems about right to me. hes a friggin kick returner.... 1.5 mil sounds like too much for me. if they pay him any more its becasue of fans not ability.

1.5 million dollars in the NFL is too much for a team's best offensive weapon? A player who is (arguably, I guess) the best at his role in the entire league? Who would they plug in for the $900k Cribbs makes now? He's basically doing three jobs: wildcat QB, kick returner, special teams coverage. So in the interest of saving 1.5 million dollars, the suggestion is that the Browns replace him with at least two other players (a wildcat QB and a special teamer)... then they'd replace him with people who likely aren't as good at either role... and they'd have to burn an extra roster spot... and they'd have to fit these two players into $900k to get the same monetary value, not to even mention the performance value they would undoubtedly lose.

Now why would that be a smart move for the Browns?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

1.5 million dollars in the NFL is too much for a team's best offensive weapon? A player who is (arguably, I guess) the best at his role in the entire league? Who would they plug in for the $900k Cribbs makes now? He's basically doing three jobs: wildcat QB, kick returner, special teams coverage. So in the interest of saving 1.5 million dollars, the suggestion is that the Browns replace him with at least two other players (a wildcat QB and a special teamer)... then they'd replace him with people who likely aren't as good at either role... and they'd have to burn an extra roster spot... and they'd have to fit these two players into $900k to get the same monetary value, not to even mention the performance value they would undoubtedly lose.

Now why would that be a smart move for the Browns?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I get the feeling a lot of people didn't watch many Browns games this year.

He was quite good in the Wildcat as the team won their last four games. As in, a serious threat rushing the ball.

I would LOVE the Patriots to get him for 2.5 M/year.

did anyone watch a lot of Browns games??

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Well, whatever RedZone allowed me, so I saw the highlights.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

1.5 million dollars in the NFL is too much for a team's best offensive weapon? A player who is (arguably, I guess) the best at his role in the entire league? Who would they plug in for the $900k Cribbs makes now? He's basically doing three jobs: wildcat QB, kick returner, special teams coverage. So in the interest of saving 1.5 million dollars, the suggestion is that the Browns replace him with at least two other players (a wildcat QB and a special teamer)... then they'd replace him with people who likely aren't as good at either role... and they'd have to burn an extra roster spot... and they'd have to fit these two players into $900k to get the same monetary value, not to even mention the performance value they would undoubtedly lose.

Now why would that be a smart move for the Browns?

The mustachioed man speaks the truth.

[CleBrownsfan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

did anyone watch a lot of Browns games??

I did

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

hes played well.... but if you traded him what do you think he would bring in? was he a fourth round pick? that seems about right to me. hes a friggin kick returner.... 1.5 mil sounds like too much for me. if they pay him any more its becasue of fans not ability.

You could argue that even if all he did was return kicks and punts that he'd be worth over 3 million dollars.

Devin Hester makes 7 million. Cribbs is worth 3 or more. I don't know how this is even debatable. . . unless like everyone else in the world, you don't watch the actual games the Browns play.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

I did

awww . i'm sorry.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by TroyF

You could argue that even if all he did was return kicks and punts that he'd be worth over 3 million dollars.

Devin Hester makes 7 million. Cribbs is worth 3 or more. I don't know how this is even debatable. . . unless like everyone else in the world, you don't watch the actual games the Browns play.

I agree. I am surprised by the anti-Cribbs crowd.

I guess the only argument I could see trying to make is that kick-returners, for whatever reason, seem to "lose it" quite quickly. Devin Hester went from all-world returner to ok returner to not even a returner anymore quite quickly. The Human Joystick and Eddie Drummond also both sort of fell off the map quickly. So, there would appear to be a higher risk than with other positions that paying a KR big money could blow up in your face. Is Hester really worth $7 million right now?

That said, Cribbs is much more than a returner. His ability to run the wildcat offense pretty effectively cannot be overlooked. Other teams have to game plan for that kind of thing and having it as weapon - potential or actual - is an advantage.

Even as a kick returner, however, he's got a lot of value. While the Lions have suffered because a lack of talent across the vast majority of the roster, the lack of any kind of return game has constantly been an issue.

[Silver Owl]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

I did

Right there with you.
Cribbs is worth more than either one of the so called QB's we have. Pay the man!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Silver Owl

Right there with you.
Cribbs is worth more than either one of the so called QB's we have. Pay the man!

Too late!

Cribbs says farewell, "It's over" in Cleveland | ProFootballTalk.com

Browns wide receiver and return man Josh Cribbs says he's finished in Cleveland.

"I said good-bye to some people on the medical staff, some of the equipment guys and the coaches,'' Cribbs told the Cleveland Plain Dealer today. "I wished the coaches luck and told them I hoped they kept their job. But it absolutely felt like the last time I'd be setting foot inside the building. I feel like it's over for me in Cleveland.''

Cribbs, who previously said he doesn't think he fits in new front office boss Mike Holmgren's plans, said he expects Holmgren to trade him during the off-season.

"There's no way I'll play another down for the Browns without the new contract,'' he said. "They won't let me sit, because I have value. They'd be forced to trade me.''

Cribbs said Holmgren made the right call in retaining Browns coach Eric Mangini, but he thinks Holmgren has insulted him by giving him a $1.4 million a year offer that suggests the Browns see him as strictly a special teams player, and not a threat on offense.

"I'm not just insulted by the number, but by the fact they consider me just a kick returner," Cribbs said. "I'm so much more than that. . . . I'm shocked they make me an offer like that after all I've done for this team."

In addition to being a Pro Bowl returner, Cribbs caught 20 passes for 135 yards and ran 55 times for 381 yards this season.

[Travis]

Welcome to life with Holmgren. After seeing how he "used" Seneca Wallace here, Cribbs better get out if he wants to be more than a special teamer.

Of course the caveat is that Holmgren isn't the coach so if Cribbs does come back he could be used in more ways, but I'd be amazed if that happens given how Holmgren tends to view talents like that.

Not saying Holmgren wasn't a good coach in Seattle, but that was certainly one of his major flaws. Potentially the best athlete on the Seahawks pretty much never saw the field during his tenure here (didn't really improve much under Mora either, but that's another thread).

[lungs]

Whatever happened to Dante Hall?

[CleBrownsfan]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Too late!

Cribbs says farewell, "It's over" in Cleveland | ProFootballTalk.com

Browns wide receiver and return man Josh Cribbs says he's finished in Cleveland.

"I said good-bye to some people on the medical staff, some of the equipment guys and the coaches,'' Cribbs told the Cleveland Plain Dealer today. "I wished the coaches luck and told them I hoped they kept their job. But it absolutely felt like the last time I'd be setting foot inside the building. I feel like it's over for me in Cleveland.''

Cribbs, who previously said he doesn't think he fits in new front office boss Mike Holmgren's plans, said he expects Holmgren to trade him during the off-season.

"There's no way I'll play another down for the Browns without the new contract,'' he said. "They won't let me sit, because I have value. They'd be forced to trade me.''

Cribbs said Holmgren made the right call in retaining Browns coach Eric Mangini, but he thinks Holmgren has insulted him by giving him a $1.4 million a year offer that suggests the Browns see him as strictly a special teams player, and not a threat on offense.

"I'm not just insulted by the number, but by the fact they consider me just a kick returner," Cribbs said. "I'm so much more than that. . . . I'm shocked they make me an offer like that after all I've done for this team."

In addition to being a Pro Bowl returner, Cribbs caught 20 passes for 135 yards and ran 55 times for 381 yards this season.

meh - I read nothing into this. These are the quotes I've been hearing all day here. I still think he'll be a Brown next year with a new contract.

[flere-imsaho]

Having watched some Browns' games this year, and being in agreement that he's currently they're best offensive player after Joe Thomas and Jerome Harrison, I'd say he's well worth $3 million/year, and frankly if the NFL goes uncapped he'd probably be a bargain at that rate.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Having watched some Browns' games this year, and being in agreement that he's currently they're best offensive player after Joe Thomas and Jerome Harrison, I'd say he's well worth $3 million/year, and frankly if the NFL goes uncapped he'd probably be a bargain at that rate.

I thought he was underpaid at 800k and thought a raise to what they're offering was reasonable. For him to call that insulting is a little unreasonable, I think. 3 mil is probably too much for him. Especially since he can't bargain with other teams.

And NFL teams have been preparing for this uncapped year for a while. I don't expect it to be the panacea for players that some expect. I especially expect teams to cut way back on signing bonuses. Cribbs only options will be to play for the Browns for something in the 2 million range, or stock shelves at the Piggly Wiggly for 7.00 an hour with no health insurance.

[Blackadar]

As a Steelers fan, I hope they don't pay him and he goes to the NFC. Cribbs is the only guy on the entire Browns team that scares me when the ball is in his hands. Just on his return stats alone - 12 yards per punt return (4th in the NFL), 27.5 per kick return (3rd in the NFL) - he's earned more than the $1.4m. The fact that he also scored 4 return TDs and was pretty good in limited action as a WR/RB just adds to his value. I wouldn't sign him to $4m, but somewhere around $2.5m - $3m is pretty reasonable, especially if your signing bonus is only in the range of $5-$6m. Then if he doesn't perform, you can release him after a couple of years with not much of a penalty.

[claphamsa]

interesting note on the blackadar.... I was thinking about this... and I hope they do pay him, go ahead and waste tons of money on a kick returner/wilcat guy. But i admit, having grown up in Cleveland nothing make me happier than seeing the Browns lose

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

interesting note on the blackadar.... I was thinking about this... and I hope they do pay him, go ahead and waste tons of money on the guy who puts most of our points on the board.

Fixed.

Wait, what?

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

interesting note on the blackadar.... I was thinking about this... and I hope they do pay him, go ahead and waste tons of money on a kick returner/wilcat guy. But i admit, having grown up in Cleveland nothing make me happier than seeing the Browns lose

You do realize that $2.5m or $3m per year isn't a "ton of money" when the last salary cap was $127m (and there's no cap at all next year), don't you? Even at $3.5m, Cribbs would count for only 2.76% of the 2009 entire cap. That gives you an example of how insulting that $1.4m offer was - it's less than they spend on the average player for the Browns. According to this http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Cleveland-Browns-Salaries, at $1.4m per year he wouldn't even be a top 20 paid guy on the team.

[Logan]

GOD FORBID WE INSULT JOE JUREVICIUS BY PAYING CRIBBS A COMPARABLE SALARY!!!!

[Bearcat729]

Originally Posted by Logan

GOD FORBID WE INSULT JOE JUREVICIUS BY PAYING CRIBBS A COMPARABLE SALARY!!!!

I'm not sure why the Browns care what Joe Jurevicius thinks seeing as how they cut him last year after he got that staph infection.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

I'm not sure why the Browns care what Joe Jurevicius thinks seeing as how they cut him last year after he got that staph infection.

So Browns management once signed Joe to a deal that enabled him to have a $3MM cap hit a year after cutting him.

I just can't figure out why this franchise never wins.