The prodigal son returns

Kodos · 08-26-2003, 01:24 PM

I surrender.

After several seasons of rooting against the Dolphins in the post-Marino era because of Dave Wannstedt, I have come to the realization that I am a Dolphins fans whether I like it or not. I've tried to find another team, but no other team seems right. The Fins are still the team that I read about first if there are several articles around that interest me. They have too many guys like Zach Thomas that are among my very favorite players. I can't root against them for another season in hopes of getting Wannstedt fired. Sure, I wish they had a more exciting QB. Sure, I still want Wannstedt to be fired as soon as possible. But, for now, I will just have to root for them while hoping that we can get rid of Wanny and the last vestiges of Jimmy Johnson.

If Dan Marino can forgive the Fins, then so can I. The prodigal son has come back to his Dolphins. I only hope they can get a coach I like next year... If there has to be a December swoon this season, let it cost Dave his job.

Go Dolphins!

Bee · 08-26-2003, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kodos
I surrender.

I didn't know you were french

Kodos · 08-26-2003, 01:28 PM

I'm not French, but I do think Dave should fry.

JeeberD · 08-26-2003, 01:29 PM

Just remember, it was JJ who drafted Zach Thomas...

Kodos · 08-26-2003, 01:36 PM

Yes, I'm aware of that. He also drafted Cecil Collins.

mrsimperless · 08-26-2003, 01:43 PM

First off, I'm a Colts fan and hate the dolphins.

However, when I first heard about the Wannstedt hiring a few years ago I was completely dumbfounded. I thought the fins were making a HUGE mistake. However, the guy is doing a stand-up job IMO and deserves some credit.

After leaving the bears I thought his career was dead. It has now been completely resurrected. Kudos Dave!

Kodos · 08-26-2003, 01:48 PM

Blasphemy! Damn you!

Perhaps for a Colts fan, reaching the playoffs each year is enough, but winning a playoff game once in a while would be nice too.

Darkiller · 08-26-2003, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bee
I didn't know you were french

gloups...

JeeberD · 08-26-2003, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kodos
Yes, I'm aware of that. He also drafted Cecil Collins.

Well, it was just a reminder that if you wanted to "get rid of the last vestiges of Jimmy Johnson" then that would require getting rid of some of your favorite players, Zach Thomas included...

mrsimperless · 08-26-2003, 01:55 PM

I hate the fact that I live in a city where people care more about their pro basketball team than their football team. What is wrong with people??? Buy the tickets, go to the games, support the team! Nobody realizes what we have. Soon it may be gone. Then it will be too late.

And didn't Wannstedt win a playoff game? Against the Colts?

Bonegavel · 08-26-2003, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darkiller
gloups...

gloups translated means, "I fart in your general direction."

Fritz · 08-26-2003, 02:00 PM

[wearing a teal fin hat]
I like Dave Wannstedt. He is a coach that seem to learn from the past very well. His disasters in Chicago (drafting, FA aquisition, revolving QBs) are all things he has improved on. His Miami problems are being identified and fixed one by one. When he is the problem, he tries to make a change there too.

This isn't to say he can't do better, but I am quite happy.
[/wearing a teal fin hat]

Kodos · 08-26-2003, 02:29 PM

Fire him! He is a traitor to Dan Marino, and an acknowledged Jimmy Johnson underling.

At night, I dream of Mike Shanahan or Chucky becoming the new Fins coach. And, yes, I realize neither of those will ever happen...

Kodos · 08-26-2003, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JeeberD
Well, it was just a reminder that if you wanted to "get rid of the last vestiges of Jimmy Johnson" then that would require getting rid of some of your favorite players, Zach Thomas included...

Zach didn't help drive Marino out of football. You can't blame him for being drafted by Jimmy. I respect Jimmy's draft abilities, I just don't like him.

scooper · 08-26-2003, 02:33 PM

Fair weather Fin.

Buzzbee · 08-26-2003, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kodos
I surrender.

I've tried to find another team, but no other team seems right.

Go Dolphins!

Oh, I see. Vick goes down and your OFF the Falcons bandwagon, eh?

Sure, when the Dolphins are choking yet again in the playoffs you are quick to search for that new love. Jaded and tainted by broken promises, jilted by the love of your life, downtrodden and hapless you latch on to the first thing you see. Shiny black helmets, a new logo with flashes of red. With open hearts the Falcons bring you into the fold. Your pain soothed with the promise of new love. Your heart flutters as Vick scrambles in the backfield and breaks open for a long gain. Warmth rushes over you as Vick crosses the goalline for the winning TD and a 179 yard performance.

Then, IT happens. Your new love isn't there when you get home and what do you do? You go running back to your former lover with open arms and a bleeding heart. You don't wait for an explanation. You don't wait to hear the most important three words in the universe: "Super Bowl Champions." Instead you go back to that tease of a Fish. Always promising, but never delivering. She treats you like the dirt at Pro Player Stadium. And you TAKE it. Farewell, former Falcon follower. May you have Mahi Mahi for lunch.

Chief Rum · 08-26-2003, 02:55 PM

Everyone rips on Wannstedt for the Bears, and he deserves his fair share and more for that debacle. That said, I just think that franchise has been run into the ground the past ten years, and I can think of few coaches who would have been able to pull it out.

Wannstedt won't move up another notch in coaching until he can get his team a killer instinct, make the playoffs, and then make a run in the playoffs. The December collapse last year was painful, even for a non-Dolphins fan. So Wannstedt, while solid, is far from proven even in his time in Miami.

But my main point is that he shouldn't be judged solely by Chicago either. I still remember him as the architect of a great Super Bowl defense in Dallas myself.

CR

Kodos · 08-26-2003, 03:27 PM

Alas, I tried to convert back to the Falcons (god knows they are more exciting to watch), but it just wasn't right. I still won't be able to cheer for the Fins like I did in the glory days, but at least now I won't be rooting against them. Well, except for Dave. Knowing Dave is suffering will make each loss a little less bitter.

I will still root for the Falcons, but the Fins are my team, like it or not.

Buzzbee · 08-26-2003, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kodos
Alas, I tried to convert back to the Falcons (god knows they are more exciting to watch), but it just wasn't right. I still won't be able to cheer for the Fins like I did in the glory days, but at least now I won't be rooting against them. Well, except for Dave. Knowing Dave is suffering will make each loss a little less bitter.

I will still root for the Falcons, but the Fins are my team, like it or not.

Kodos, you can't ride two horses with one ass. Admit it. You are a Dophins fan. Accept it. There's no shame (until the playoffs).
[dramatic music]
Revel in the history. Csonka, Shula, Marino, Johnso...oh, ne'er mind. Just remember the perfect season. Have Dinner at a Shula's restaurant. Watch your video recordings of the Dan Marino Isotoner commercials. Us Falcon fans won't hold it against you. All we've got is Steve Bartkowski, William Andrews, Billy "White Shoes" Johnson, and a fluke trip to the Super Bowl. Wear your green and orange with pride. Smile a little bit when the Falcons make the playoffs, but cheer YOUR team to victory.
[/dramatic music]

Chief Rum · 08-26-2003, 04:14 PM

You know what? I have an announcement to make, too.

I used to be a diehard Rams fan when they were here in LA. When they left, it was like they tore my heart out and stepped on it. I was a guy who was a big Jim Everett fan. I thought Bettis and Bruce looked like really great young stars. Eric Dickerson has a special place in my heart. Jackie Slater is my favorite offensive lineman ever, and Tom Newberry isn't far behind him. Flipper. Jerry Gray. Kevin Greene. Henry Ellard. The names go on forever.

I still hate the Niners from those days, and I think I always will. It's weird how I could reject my own team because of the move, but still hate their archrivals. But then, SF has always been painfully easy to hate.

At the point the Rams left, I didn't really root for anyone anymore. I kinda rooted for the Cowboys, because my guy Aikman out of UCLA was their quarterback. I considered following thema fun side thing when I rooted for the Rams, and I still take pride that I actually started following the Cowboys during their 1-15 season (Aikman's first in the pros), and not after they won a Super Bowl (stupid bandwaggoners).

But my following of the Boys has never been to the level it once was with the Rams. I rooted for them. I watched games when I could. But I didn't go out of my way. I always liked Aikman. I really liked Emmitt. Both are gone now. Rooting for the Cowboys just isn't the same, and my heart isn't really in it. I still like the Cowboys, but it's just a basic fact they don't do and maybe never have done it for me.

It has come to my attention recently that, despite my self-professed hatred for the Rams for what they did to me and my local area fans, that I still do some things and think some thoughts that harken back to the Rams-fandom days of old.

For instance, I still read the Rams preview first in my preview magazines. Don't ask me why. I just always turn to it. I still find myself very familiar with what the Rams are doing at any given moment. I cheered when Faulk came to the Rams. I loved the Warner arrival story of 1999, and a part of me rooted for the Rams in both Super Bowls (although I hated seeing the trophy handed to the Bitch at the end of it all).

So today I was reading about Carolina and former Ram WR Terrence Wilkins getting put on IR. Wilkins trashed Martz and the team when he went to the Panthers (a stroy that annoyed me for reasons I couldn't pin down). So today when I saw he was done for the year, I was saying to myself "Good riddance, that guy is a bastard and never helped us when he was here anyway."

It suddenly hit me what I was saying. Wilkins never played for the LA Rams. He wasn't even in the league when the move happened. But I still referred to the Rams in the first person and as if I were there--like the diehard fan I used to be.

So, after giving it some thought and being teased a bit by Kodos' own heartfelt semi-return to the Fins, I have come to the conclusion that, no matter how many times I tell myself otherwise, my heart still roots for the Rams, and nothing I do seems to change it.

So I'm going to pull a Kodos and return to semi-fandom for the Rams, despite the fact they are the St. Louis Rams. I will actively root for them again, and not be ashamed to do so.

I will, however, remain hopeful that a truck will come along and plow over Georgia Frontiere as she's crossing a road one day, or that her lackey John Shaw will do them both in in a murder-suicide pact. Sounds harsh? Try getting your favorite team ripped away from you.

CR

Kodos · 08-26-2003, 04:24 PM

Ahh, another man without a team. Sucks, doesn't it Chief? I will root for the Fins again, but it won't be the same as before. The highs won't be nearly as high, and the lows won't be nearly as low. Maybe some day, when Dave is gone, and some hotshot young QB comes into town, or maybe one of my dream coaches takes the helm, I will get that old feeling again. Until then, I will cheer them on, especially my favorite players, and await the day when I don't have to put an asterisk by my fanship.

Buzzbee · 08-26-2003, 04:31 PM

Well, while we're at it...

[/closet]
I have a confession to make...
[closet]

Just kidding.

Chief Rum · 08-26-2003, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kodos
Ahh, another man without a team. Sucks, doesn't it Chief? I will root for the Fins again, but it won't be the same as before. The highs won't be nearly as high, and the lows won't be nearly as low. Maybe some day, when Dave is gone, and some hotshot young QB comes into town, or maybe one of my dream coaches takes the helm, I will get that old feeling again. Until then, I will cheer them on, especially my favorite players, and await the day when I don't have to put an asterisk by my fanship.

Yeah, I doubt it will be the same for me either. But it's probably better than denying myself for years as I have been.

CR

sterlingice · 08-27-2003, 12:51 AM

I miss the Oilers. Sure we have the Texans, but it's just not the same. No ugly uniforms, no Warren Moon...

Still, for some reason, I'm a sucker for expansion teams and I'm sure I will learn to like them.

SI

IMetTrentGreen · 08-27-2003, 01:03 AM

"I still remember him as the architect of a great Super Bowl defense in Dallas myself."

that would be jimmy and butch davis. dave was more a caretaker after those two split

Sharpieman · 08-27-2003, 02:10 AM

"I still hate the Niners from those days, and I think I always will. It's weird how I could reject my own team because of the move, but still hate their archrivals. But then, SF has always been painfully easy to hate."
CR, I don't think its hate as much as its envy, I mean the Niners absolutely dominated the L.A. Lambs..err Rams when they were in Cali. Oh ya, I forgot you guys envy the 5 superbowl rings we have too.

JeeberD · 08-27-2003, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by IMetTrentGreen
"I still remember him as the architect of a great Super Bowl defense in Dallas myself."

that would be jimmy and butch davis. dave was more a caretaker after those two split

You have it backwards. Dave was Jimmy's original D coordinator and Butch was I think the linebackers coach. After Dave left for Chicago, Butch was promoted to D coordinator, basically running the same system that Jimmy and Dave had installed....

Chief Rum · 08-27-2003, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharpieman
"I still hate the Niners from those days, and I think I always will. It's weird how I could reject my own team because of the move, but still hate their archrivals. But then, SF has always been painfully easy to hate."
CR, I don't think its hate as much as its envy, I mean the Niners absolutely dominated the L.A. Lambs..err Rams when they were in Cali. Oh ya, I forgot you guys envy the 5 superbowl rings we have too.

Just remembered another reason why I hate SF. Fans like the above. Tons of them.

I don't really have much to respond to in that, because everyone knows the Niners were great in the 80s and most of the 90s. I just like knowing that almost the entire time of the Niners heyday, it was the Rams that were the thorn in their side. Yes, we did always lose to them (annoyingly enough), but our record was always good enough to keep them on their toes. We certainly weren't getting any help from the Falcons or Saints in the old NFC West (sorry to fans of those teams, but it's true).

But the Rams did have a Super Bowl team in 1980, and have a long history of some great quarterbacks (Waterfield, Van Brocklin, Ferragamo, Everett before the happy feet, now Warner), Eric Dickerson's record-setting season, the Fearsome Foursome, Jack Youngblood and Kevin Greene--lots of tradition in this franchise's history (and four cities--Cleveland, Los Angeles, Anaheim and St. Louis that could put a claim to it).

And, of course, we have been a mite bit more sucessful than the Niners in recent years, haven't we?

CR

Chief Rum · 08-27-2003, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JeeberD
You have it backwards. Dave was Jimmy's original D coordinator and Butch was I think the linebackers coach. After Dave left for Chicago, Butch was promoted to D coordinator, basically running the same system that Jimmy and Dave had installed....

dola,

Thanks, Jeeber. I thought that was wrong, but wasn't sure.

A standout memory for me was that the OC was Norv Turner and DC Dave Wannstedt, and both went on to become head coaches (and both got canned; now Turner's working for Wannstedt).

CR

Sharpieman · 08-27-2003, 03:30 AM

Good point CR, but just remember, 5 superbowl rings. And I know you hate fans like me, and I hate Rams fans, so at least we can agree on something. Of course I don't hate the Rams as much as I hate the Raiders, which reminds me...

How many Oakland Raiders does it take to fix a flat tire?
One...unless its a blowout, then the whole team will show up.
AND...
Rich Gannon was eating at a resturant after the Superbowl and
passed the peas to one of his friends, unfortunately Derek Brooks intercepted them and took them back for a touchdown.

Sharpieman · 08-27-2003, 03:32 AM

Dola

I forgot the best one, How is marijuana and the Raiders similar?
They both get smoked in 'bowls...hahahahaha

Chief Rum · 08-27-2003, 04:18 AM

Heh heh right on, Sharpie.

I have nothing against the Raiders, but I don't hold them in too high esteem either, since they left here, too (and they didn't have the advantage of me beinga diehard fan of theirs

).

That said, I like the Raiders a whole heck of a lot more than the Niners.

Your Gannon joke reminded me of a funny story that I think someone here from Chicago put up.

A day after then Bears QB Cade McNown threw three interceptions to the same Lions safety (I forget who, let's say Corey Harris), a sports radio show in Chicago mocked up a fake interview with Cade, in which the fake Cade would attempt to pass the microphone back to the announcer, and a fake Harris would keep getting the mike instead. Funny stuff.

CR

thesloppy · 08-27-2003, 04:30 AM

These remind me of one of my favorite classic packers joke (apologies if it's old hat):

How many packers fans does it take to change a light bulb?

20: 1 to screw in the new bulb, and 19 to talk about how awesome the old bulb was.

ice4277 · 08-27-2003, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chief Rum
A day after then Bears QB Cade McNown threw three interceptions to the same Lions safety (I forget who, let's say Corey Harris), a sports radio show in Chicago mocked up a fake interview with Cade, in which the fake Cade would attempt to pass the microphone back to the announcer, and a fake Harris would keep getting the mike instead. Funny stuff.
CR

Actually, it was Kurt Schultz...good memory

One of the sports stations here did something similar after the Lions playoff debacle against the Eagles a few years ago.

FishFan · 08-27-2003, 11:24 AM

It's sad that Wannstedt still gets disrespect for the job he did in Chicago or being associated with Jimmy Johnson and the Cowboys.

In Dallas, the guy was just trying to make it big and had an opportunity with the Cowboys. I, and anybody else in his position, would have likely accepted the job regardless of the coach. It just so happened that this was Jimmy and the Cowboys turned into one of the most hated teams in America, which had an ill-effect on all those associated with the program. Despite that, he had the chance to learn some things and was rewarded with a head coaching job after success as the defensive coordinator.

Then, in Chicago, Wannstedt ran into a very bad situation. Being his first head coaching job, Wannstedt was probably not quite ready. He was given a lot of control of player personnel and that is what ultimately doomed him. He had very little talent there in his brief tenure. Some of it was his fault, some of it was not. In the end, someone had to take the fall for not bringing in talent and who better than to take the fall than the head coach? I think with more help (like he has had in Miami), Wannstedt could have been more successful, but the end result probably would have been the same. Look at what the Bears have done since then. One fluke season and numerous pathetic ones. They are basically in the same position they were when Wannstedt left - no quarterback, no running game.

Now, he lands in Miami with much help from his old "mentor", Jimmy Johnson. I did not like the JJ era in Miami any more than many of you here, but there are some misconceptions about what happened. Dan Marino was not pushed out of Miami. He was ready to go rather he could admit it or not. No other team wanted him for anything other than a teacher. Had another team signed him (Minnesota, Tampa Bay, et al), he would have been nothing more than an emergency QB and a mentor for younger guys. Mentoring is not in Marino's blood and he knew that. Better to retire than to back up Shaun King. Anyone remember that Thanksgiving Day game (against the Cowboys, I think), where Marino threw so many bad passes and looked his age? I remember watching that game and feeling extremely bad for Marino, knowing his career was over and he would never be the same.

That said, all Wannstedt has done some amazing things, including getting many fans to accept Jay Fiedler as the quarterback, heir apparent to Marino. Say what you want abou Jay, but when he starts, all the Dolphins do is win. He is underrated when it comes to his arm and he has shown what he is capable of doing this offseason. I would be extremely surprised (more surprised than I was of last year's debacle) if the Dolphins come up short of the AFC Championship. Everyone talks about bring Seau in, but he's not the biggest acquisition the Fish made this year. Not even #2 for that matter. S Sammy Knight, a big-time playmaker, will be more of a difference-maker on defense than Seau. On offense, WR Derrius Thompson will take some pressure off of Chris Chambers and could emerge as our team's top receiver. He also has deep ball potential, something that we've lacked in recent years. With Ricky in better shape than he's been in quite some time and everyone back on defense (including a much improved CB Jamar Fletcher) and we look pretty damn good.

What is the reason behind this? The draft success and talent we have brought in over the past several season. Something that Wannstedt has had a say in, but not total control. He gets a lot of help. Look at the recent draft picks. Jamar Fletcher, Chris Chambers, Morlon Greenwood, he recognized talent in Adewale Ogunleye, Seth McKinney, Randy McMichael, and Travis Minor. You would have heard of LB Eddie Moore this season, too, had he not gotten himself hurt and out for the year. The Dolphins take chances with players like Ogunleye (who knew he would overcome a gruesome injury his senior year in college/) and LB Corey Jenkins, a quarterback for four years in college. They took a gamble on Robert Edwards and even took a gamble on Ricky Williams. You never saw the Dolphins make these kinds of moves when Marino and Shule were in charge. Marino would have never allowed the Dolphins to sign a big time running back and Shula never would have ran the ball, anyway. The fact that Marino never returned to the Super Bowl after his second season was more his fault than anyone elses. Sure, he's one of the greatest, but the Dolphins are more of a team now than when he was here and I enjoy wathcing them and rooting for them more than ever. I credit Wannstedt for most of this.

On another note, living in Indianapolis and getting a first-hand glimpse at what the Colts are going through with the city, it looks like the football team is as good as dead. It looks like attendance will be down this year which will only add fuel to the fire. 2005 could very well be the last year for the COlts in Indy. They want a new stadium (need one, really), but they are not going to get it from the politicians or the taxpayers.

Kodos · 08-27-2003, 12:53 PM

I'm sorry, but I think you're crazy if you think Marino wouldn't have welcomed a strong running back, especially after he saw what adding one did for Elway. I disagree with a lot of what you said, but this point especially. Marino wanted to win more than anything else. That, more than anything, was why he is my favorite player of all time. That look he got in his eyes when they were losing - you could tell that losing ate away at his insides. Some guys are in it for the paycheck or for building their stats. Marino was in it to win a championship -- that's why he hung on so long -- and that is why it hurts so much that he didn't win one.

If you think he wouldn't have welcomed a great running back with open arms, then I don't know what to tell you.

Chief Rum · 08-27-2003, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FishFan
In Dallas, the guy was just trying to make it big and had an opportunity with the Cowboys. I, and anybody else in his position, would have likely accepted the job regardless of the coach. It just so happened that this was Jimmy and the Cowboys turned into one of the most hated teams in America, which had an ill-effect on all those associated with the program. Despite that, he had the chance to learn some things and was rewarded with a head coaching job after success as the defensive coordinator.

You make good points, FishFan, but I thought would address. I wouldn't extend s personal dislike of a franchise to everyone, especially people in the NFL, if I were you.

I know plenty of non-Cowboys fans hate the Cowboys, but, trust me, from a future resume point of view, Wannstedt wasn't exactly having to dance witht he devil in going in with Jimmy Johnson and the Cowboys.

Only the fans come up with such ridiculous hatreds. On the NFL level, the people who are involved with it by and larget respect the job Jimmy Johnson did in Dallas, and don't attach any stigma whatsoever to anyone who was a part of it.

My guess is Wannstedt hasn't suffered at all nor hadt to overcome any obstacles directly as a result of his having cut his coaching teeth with the Cowboys, except perhaps in public perception (which NFL decision-makers by and large don't give a shit about unless the perception is so bad that attendance would drop by 50%).

CR

FishFan · 08-27-2003, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kodos
If you think he wouldn't have welcomed a great running back with open arms, then I don't know what to tell you.

Yeah, he was a competitor, but he was not going to let anyone take the ball out of his hands. That is one of the single reasons why they never had a running game in Miami. He wanted the ball in his hands and he felt that he could win without one. Maybe he realized this late in his career, but by then it was all over...

FishFan · 08-27-2003, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chief Rum
I know plenty of non-Cowboys fans hate the Cowboys, but, trust me, from a future resume point of view, Wannstedt wasn't exactly having to dance witht he devil in going in with Jimmy Johnson and the Cowboys.

My guess is Wannstedt hasn't suffered at all nor hadt to overcome any obstacles directly as a result of his having cut his coaching teeth with the Cowboys, except perhaps in public perception (which NFL decision-makers by and large don't give a shit about unless the perception is so bad that attendance would drop by 50%).

CR

I think you hit on my point there. My sarcasm did not come through in that post. The reason why Jimmy and the Cowboys became hated (by some fans) was because they were winners and their system worked. I don't think Wannstedt has suffered much because he came up with Jimmy, certainly not in NFL circles, but he gets a lot of discredit from those fans who don't like Jimmy. I was not a fan of his at Miami because they were not successful, but much of that was because they were hanging on to a legend at quarterback that was past him prime. With a different quarterback in there, the Dolphins could have been more successful and more Dolphin fans would not have such a dislike for Jimmy. Of course, at the time, Dan Marino was still our best option at quarterback, but he was still past his prime. I'm not trying to knock him, but look at his numbers.

I like the direction that the franchise is heading right now. A ball control offense with a power running game and a quarterback that does not lose ballgames and a talented, stingy defense. That kind of football wins championships (Tampa Bay, Baltimore come to mind) in today's NFL.

08-26-2003, 01:29 PM	#4
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	Just remember, it was JJ who drafted Zach Thomas... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

08-26-2003, 01:43 PM	#6
mrsimperless College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2003	First off, I'm a Colts fan and hate the dolphins. However, when I first heard about the Wannstedt hiring a few years ago I was completely dumbfounded. I thought the fins were making a HUGE mistake. However, the guy is doing a stand-up job IMO and deserves some credit. After leaving the bears I thought his career was dead. It has now been completely resurrected. Kudos Dave! __________________ "All I know is that smart women are hot. Susan Polgar beat me in 24 moves in a simultaneous exhbition. I slept with the scoresheet under my pillow." Off some dude's web site.

08-26-2003, 01:55 PM	#10
mrsimperless College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2003	I hate the fact that I live in a city where people care more about their pro basketball team than their football team. What is wrong with people??? Buy the tickets, go to the games, support the team! Nobody realizes what we have. Soon it may be gone. Then it will be too late. And didn't Wannstedt win a playoff game? Against the Colts? __________________ "All I know is that smart women are hot. Susan Polgar beat me in 24 moves in a simultaneous exhbition. I slept with the scoresheet under my pillow." Off some dude's web site.

08-26-2003, 02:00 PM	#12
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	[wearing a teal fin hat] I like Dave Wannstedt. He is a coach that seem to learn from the past very well. His disasters in Chicago (drafting, FA aquisition, revolving QBs) are all things he has improved on. His Miami problems are being identified and fixed one by one. When he is the problem, he tries to make a change there too. This isn't to say he can't do better, but I am quite happy. [/wearing a teal fin hat] __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

08-26-2003, 02:55 PM	#17
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Everyone rips on Wannstedt for the Bears, and he deserves his fair share and more for that debacle. That said, I just think that franchise has been run into the ground the past ten years, and I can think of few coaches who would have been able to pull it out. Wannstedt won't move up another notch in coaching until he can get his team a killer instinct, make the playoffs, and then make a run in the playoffs. The December collapse last year was painful, even for a non-Dolphins fan. So Wannstedt, while solid, is far from proven even in his time in Miami. But my main point is that he shouldn't be judged solely by Chicago either. I still remember him as the architect of a great Super Bowl defense in Dallas myself. CR __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

08-26-2003, 01:28 PM	#3
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	I'm not French, but I do think Dave should fry.

08-26-2003, 01:36 PM	#5
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Yes, I'm aware of that. He also drafted Cecil Collins.

08-26-2003, 01:48 PM	#7
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Blasphemy! Damn you! Perhaps for a Colts fan, reaching the playoffs each year is enough, but winning a playoff game once in a while would be nice too.

08-26-2003, 02:29 PM	#13
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Fire him! He is a traitor to Dan Marino, and an acknowledged Jimmy Johnson underling. At night, I dream of Mike Shanahan or Chucky becoming the new Fins coach. And, yes, I realize neither of those will ever happen...

08-26-2003, 02:33 PM	#15
scooper College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cinn City	Fair weather Fin.

08-26-2003, 03:27 PM	#18
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Alas, I tried to convert back to the Falcons (god knows they are more exciting to watch), but it just wasn't right. I still won't be able to cheer for the Fins like I did in the glory days, but at least now I won't be rooting against them. Well, except for Dave. Knowing Dave is suffering will make each loss a little less bitter. I will still root for the Falcons, but the Fins are my team, like it or not.

08-26-2003, 04:14 PM	#20
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	You know what? I have an announcement to make, too. I used to be a diehard Rams fan when they were here in LA. When they left, it was like they tore my heart out and stepped on it. I was a guy who was a big Jim Everett fan. I thought Bettis and Bruce looked like really great young stars. Eric Dickerson has a special place in my heart. Jackie Slater is my favorite offensive lineman ever, and Tom Newberry isn't far behind him. Flipper. Jerry Gray. Kevin Greene. Henry Ellard. The names go on forever. I still hate the Niners from those days, and I think I always will. It's weird how I could reject my own team because of the move, but still hate their archrivals. But then, SF has always been painfully easy to hate. At the point the Rams left, I didn't really root for anyone anymore. I kinda rooted for the Cowboys, because my guy Aikman out of UCLA was their quarterback. I considered following thema fun side thing when I rooted for the Rams, and I still take pride that I actually started following the Cowboys during their 1-15 season (Aikman's first in the pros), and not after they won a Super Bowl (stupid bandwaggoners). But my following of the Boys has never been to the level it once was with the Rams. I rooted for them. I watched games when I could. But I didn't go out of my way. I always liked Aikman. I really liked Emmitt. Both are gone now. Rooting for the Cowboys just isn't the same, and my heart isn't really in it. I still like the Cowboys, but it's just a basic fact they don't do and maybe never have done it for me. It has come to my attention recently that, despite my self-professed hatred for the Rams for what they did to me and my local area fans, that I still do some things and think some thoughts that harken back to the Rams-fandom days of old. For instance, I still read the Rams preview first in my preview magazines. Don't ask me why. I just always turn to it. I still find myself very familiar with what the Rams are doing at any given moment. I cheered when Faulk came to the Rams. I loved the Warner arrival story of 1999, and a part of me rooted for the Rams in both Super Bowls (although I hated seeing the trophy handed to the Bitch at the end of it all). So today I was reading about Carolina and former Ram WR Terrence Wilkins getting put on IR. Wilkins trashed Martz and the team when he went to the Panthers (a stroy that annoyed me for reasons I couldn't pin down). So today when I saw he was done for the year, I was saying to myself "Good riddance, that guy is a bastard and never helped us when he was *here* anyway." It suddenly hit me what I was saying. Wilkins never played for the LA Rams. He wasn't even in the league when the move happened. But I still referred to the Rams in the first person and as if I were there--like the diehard fan I used to be. So, after giving it some thought and being teased a bit by Kodos' own heartfelt semi-return to the Fins, I have come to the conclusion that, no matter how many times I tell myself otherwise, my heart still roots for the Rams, and nothing I do seems to change it. So I'm going to pull a Kodos and return to semi-fandom for the Rams, despite the fact they are the St. Louis Rams. I will actively root for them again, and not be ashamed to do so. I will, however, remain hopeful that a truck will come along and plow over Georgia Frontiere as she's crossing a road one day, or that her lackey John Shaw will do them both in in a murder-suicide pact. Sounds harsh? Try getting your favorite team ripped away from you. CR __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. Last edited by Chief Rum : 08-26-2003 at 04:18 PM.

08-26-2003, 04:24 PM	#21
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Ahh, another man without a team. Sucks, doesn't it Chief? I will root for the Fins again, but it won't be the same as before. The highs won't be nearly as high, and the lows won't be nearly as low. Maybe some day, when Dave is gone, and some hotshot young QB comes into town, or maybe one of my dream coaches takes the helm, I will get that old feeling again. Until then, I will cheer them on, especially my favorite players, and await the day when I don't have to put an asterisk by my fanship.

08-26-2003, 04:31 PM	#22
Buzzbee College Starter Join Date: Jun 2002	Well, while we're at it... [/closet] I have a confession to make... [closet] Just kidding. __________________ Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it. - Lou Holtz

08-27-2003, 12:51 AM	#24
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	I miss the Oilers. Sure we have the Texans, but it's just not the same. No ugly uniforms, no Warren Moon... Still, for some reason, I'm a sucker for expansion teams and I'm sure I will learn to like them. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" Last edited by sterlingice : 08-27-2003 at 12:52 AM.

08-27-2003, 01:03 AM	#25
IMetTrentGreen College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Austin, Texas	"I still remember him as the architect of a great Super Bowl defense in Dallas myself." that would be jimmy and butch davis. dave was more a caretaker after those two split

08-27-2003, 02:10 AM	#26
Sharpieman Greatly Missed. (7/11/84-06/12/05) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Palo Alto, CA	"I still hate the Niners from those days, and I think I always will. It's weird how I could reject my own team because of the move, but still hate their archrivals. But then, SF has always been painfully easy to hate." CR, I don't think its hate as much as its envy, I mean the Niners absolutely dominated the L.A. Lambs..err Rams when they were in Cali. Oh ya, I forgot you guys envy the 5 superbowl rings we have too. __________________ Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

08-27-2003, 03:30 AM	#30
Sharpieman Greatly Missed. (7/11/84-06/12/05) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Palo Alto, CA	Good point CR, but just remember, 5 superbowl rings. And I know you hate fans like me, and I hate Rams fans, so at least we can agree on something. Of course I don't hate the Rams as much as I hate the Raiders, which reminds me... How many Oakland Raiders does it take to fix a flat tire? One...unless its a blowout, then the whole team will show up. AND... Rich Gannon was eating at a resturant after the Superbowl and passed the peas to one of his friends, unfortunately Derek Brooks intercepted them and took them back for a touchdown. __________________ Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

08-27-2003, 03:32 AM	#31
Sharpieman Greatly Missed. (7/11/84-06/12/05) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Palo Alto, CA	Dola I forgot the best one, How is marijuana and the Raiders similar? They both get smoked in 'bowls...hahahahaha __________________ Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

08-27-2003, 04:18 AM	#32
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Heh heh right on, Sharpie. I have nothing against the Raiders, but I don't hold them in too high esteem either, since they left here, too (and they didn't have the advantage of me beinga diehard fan of theirs ). That said, I like the Raiders a whole heck of a lot more than the Niners. Your Gannon joke reminded me of a funny story that I think someone here from Chicago put up. A day after then Bears QB Cade McNown threw three interceptions to the same Lions safety (I forget who, let's say Corey Harris), a sports radio show in Chicago mocked up a fake interview with Cade, in which the fake Cade would attempt to pass the microphone back to the announcer, and a fake Harris would keep getting the mike instead. Funny stuff. CR __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. Last edited by Chief Rum : 08-27-2003 at 04:19 AM.

08-27-2003, 04:30 AM	#33
thesloppy Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: PDX	These remind me of one of my favorite classic packers joke (apologies if it's old hat): How many packers fans does it take to change a light bulb? 20: 1 to screw in the new bulb, and 19 to talk about how awesome the old bulb was. __________________ Last edited by thesloppy : Today at 05:35 PM.

08-27-2003, 11:24 AM	#35
FishFan College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA	It's sad that Wannstedt still gets disrespect for the job he did in Chicago or being associated with Jimmy Johnson and the Cowboys. In Dallas, the guy was just trying to make it big and had an opportunity with the Cowboys. I, and anybody else in his position, would have likely accepted the job regardless of the coach. It just so happened that this was Jimmy and the Cowboys turned into one of the most hated teams in America, which had an ill-effect on all those associated with the program. Despite that, he had the chance to learn some things and was rewarded with a head coaching job after success as the defensive coordinator. Then, in Chicago, Wannstedt ran into a very bad situation. Being his first head coaching job, Wannstedt was probably not quite ready. He was given a lot of control of player personnel and that is what ultimately doomed him. He had very little talent there in his brief tenure. Some of it was his fault, some of it was not. In the end, someone had to take the fall for not bringing in talent and who better than to take the fall than the head coach? I think with more help (like he has had in Miami), Wannstedt could have been more successful, but the end result probably would have been the same. Look at what the Bears have done since then. One fluke season and numerous pathetic ones. They are basically in the same position they were when Wannstedt left - no quarterback, no running game. Now, he lands in Miami with much help from his old "mentor", Jimmy Johnson. I did not like the JJ era in Miami any more than many of you here, but there are some misconceptions about what happened. Dan Marino was not pushed out of Miami. He was ready to go rather he could admit it or not. No other team wanted him for anything other than a teacher. Had another team signed him (Minnesota, Tampa Bay, et al), he would have been nothing more than an emergency QB and a mentor for younger guys. Mentoring is not in Marino's blood and he knew that. Better to retire than to back up Shaun King. Anyone remember that Thanksgiving Day game (against the Cowboys, I think), where Marino threw so many bad passes and looked his age? I remember watching that game and feeling extremely bad for Marino, knowing his career was over and he would never be the same. That said, all Wannstedt has done some amazing things, including getting many fans to accept Jay Fiedler as the quarterback, heir apparent to Marino. Say what you want abou Jay, but when he starts, all the Dolphins do is win. He is underrated when it comes to his arm and he has shown what he is capable of doing this offseason. I would be extremely surprised (more surprised than I was of last year's debacle) if the Dolphins come up short of the AFC Championship. Everyone talks about bring Seau in, but he's not the biggest acquisition the Fish made this year. Not even #2 for that matter. S Sammy Knight, a big-time playmaker, will be more of a difference-maker on defense than Seau. On offense, WR Derrius Thompson will take some pressure off of Chris Chambers and could emerge as our team's top receiver. He also has deep ball potential, something that we've lacked in recent years. With Ricky in better shape than he's been in quite some time and everyone back on defense (including a much improved CB Jamar Fletcher) and we look pretty damn good. What is the reason behind this? The draft success and talent we have brought in over the past several season. Something that Wannstedt has had a say in, but not total control. He gets a lot of help. Look at the recent draft picks. Jamar Fletcher, Chris Chambers, Morlon Greenwood, he recognized talent in Adewale Ogunleye, Seth McKinney, Randy McMichael, and Travis Minor. You would have heard of LB Eddie Moore this season, too, had he not gotten himself hurt and out for the year. The Dolphins take chances with players like Ogunleye (who knew he would overcome a gruesome injury his senior year in college/) and LB Corey Jenkins, a quarterback for four years in college. They took a gamble on Robert Edwards and even took a gamble on Ricky Williams. You never saw the Dolphins make these kinds of moves when Marino and Shule were in charge. Marino would have never allowed the Dolphins to sign a big time running back and Shula never would have ran the ball, anyway. The fact that Marino never returned to the Super Bowl after his second season was more his fault than anyone elses. Sure, he's one of the greatest, but the Dolphins are more of a team now than when he was here and I enjoy wathcing them and rooting for them more than ever. I credit Wannstedt for most of this. On another note, living in Indianapolis and getting a first-hand glimpse at what the Colts are going through with the city, it looks like the football team is as good as dead. It looks like attendance will be down this year which will only add fuel to the fire. 2005 could very well be the last year for the COlts in Indy. They want a new stadium (need one, really), but they are not going to get it from the politicians or the taxpayers.

08-27-2003, 12:53 PM	#36
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	I'm sorry, but I think you're crazy if you think Marino wouldn't have welcomed a strong running back, especially after he saw what adding one did for Elway. I disagree with a lot of what you said, but this point especially. Marino wanted to win more than anything else. That, more than anything, was why he is my favorite player of all time. That look he got in his eyes when they were losing - you could tell that losing ate away at his insides. Some guys are in it for the paycheck or for building their stats. Marino was in it to win a championship -- that's why he hung on so long -- and that is why it hurts so much that he didn't win one. If you think he wouldn't have welcomed a great running back with open arms, then I don't know what to tell you.

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