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View Poll Results: Space Money? | |||
Yes, for anything and everything space related |
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49 | 53.26% |
Yes, but only if the plans are to do more than just orbit the Earth each time |
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27 | 29.35% |
No |
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11 | 11.96% |
Yes...the search for space trout is worth the cost |
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5 | 5.43% |
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll |
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#1 | ||
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Should the US be spending money on space programs?
Given the economy and the severe problems the USA is facing, should any money be going to the space programs? Poll to follow...
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#2 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
Fixed! Last edited by Dutch : 11-07-2009 at 05:51 AM. |
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#3 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
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I can't remember the exact figures, but I'm fairly certain it is just a drop in the bucket of the federal budget.
There are probably thousands of programs they could cut down on first. |
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#4 | |
High School JV
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Quote:
But, that said, we will quickly become a 2nd rate nation if we lose the Space Race. The future of this planet's dwindling natural resources are in space.
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I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.
Michael Jordan Last edited by NewIdentity : 11-07-2009 at 07:49 AM. |
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#5 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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When my pikemen are kicking the asses of your spearmen you'll be sorry.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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#6 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Black Hole
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If you don't spend money on NASA, then you will lose the intellectual capital that has been built and it will be hard to recover in the future. That being said, spending should be curbed.
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#7 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Wisconsin
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We are throwing gobs of money at other items in the government and yet you pick NASA out of everything else. Let me guess, you see no value in NASA so, therefore it must be useless.
NASA accounts for 1/2% of the total budget of the US. It is the equivalent of cutting out super sizing your McDonalds value meal. If you want to discuss budgetary cuts across the board, fine, but just cherry picking one area that doesn't account for much in the first place is pretty much just a political move.
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You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its... |
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#8 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
With all due respect, I posted the question because of an article I read and came away shaking my head at. I am fully for NASA and its programs. I posted the question/poll to see if I was in the minority or if people actually support the elimination of NASA. That said, I think just sending up shuttles every so often is becoming a waste of time/money. I think it's time to really step up the space program to something more. Moon, Mars, etc. |
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#9 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Appleton, WI
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I recently read a book called The Case for Mars. The author made a case for why going back to the moon didn't have much point, but why going to Mars made much more sense. Points raised were how relatively inexpensively it could be done by manufacturing the return fuel on Mars, and how colonization could be done by making what was necessary to survive. I would love to see NASA take on a project like this.
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#10 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Wisconsin
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Quote:
My fault. I incorrectly assumed that you were in favor of dropping it.
__________________
You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its... |
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#11 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
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#12 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
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Quote:
The funny thing is, that book was written by an arrogant jackass who is one of the dumbest "smart" people I've ever had the displeasure of meeting. His book has some good points but omits SO much, it's hard to take it seriously. Then again, I've met him, so I can't take anything he does seriously. /tk
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#13 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
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Dola,
I'm not voting because none of the options really encompasses how I feel. It's STUPID to send humans into space like we are. The ISS is a joke, completely overbudget and underutilized. It'll NEVER be the science laboratory it could have been and there are a lot of reasons for that. The only reason to send humans into space right now is to keep people even somewhat interested in it, so that the paltry budget NASA has won't get cut further. There is no reason to send humans back to the Moon or to Mars unless the powers that be know something we don't about the impending end of the world...and even then, well, it's probably something we brought on ourselves. /tk
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#14 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Hasn't NASA played a key role in the advancement of microchips and lots of different technologies?
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Why choose failure when success is an option? |
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#15 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
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Also, I don't want to sound like I don't think NASA should exist. I think the science they're doing, in terms of astronomy, physics, biology, etc, is amazing. Not to mention that the technologies they're researching to try to send humans into space are VITAL for things here on Earth, such as waste-water recycling, food production/sustainability, and alternate energy sources, probably more vital here on earth than they are at the moment in space. Developing these technologies for the advancement of space exploration will only help things here on earth.
I'm all for the science. Humans just aren't doing enough of it that's worthwhile in space. /tk
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GO TERPS! https://www.flickr.com/photos/terpkristin https://twitter.com/terpkristin Last edited by terpkristin : 11-07-2009 at 11:04 AM. |
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#16 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
+1 take these idiotic wars we're in for example
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#17 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Did anybody ever read the Young Astronauts series as a kid about colonizing Mars? It made me want to go to Mars.
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2006 Golden Scribe Nominee 2006 Golden Scribe Winner Best Non-Sport Dynasty: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty) Rookie Writer of the Year Dynasty of the Year: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty) |
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#18 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
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I may not know where or how humanity started, but even with my limited knowledge and faculties I know enough to understand that our end will not be here on this planet, but out there, somewhere, in space.
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#19 |
General Manager
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Hasn't NASA helped setup or innovate a number of technological advances we use in our daily lives? Weather forecasting, GPS, etc. You could make a case that a lot of their discoveries have or will save a lot of lives.
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#20 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
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Doesn't NASA also recoup a decent amount of change by monitoring satellites and launching them into orbit?
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#21 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Where Hip Hop lives
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Quote:
I don't know about recoup more than just meet costs. After all, doing either of those (especially the second) is pretty expensive, so charging to cover that is a lot of money, while leaving little profit to pay other costs. If the US charges too much, of course, supply and demand kick in, too. Prospective clients than go to the European Space Agency or maybe contact the Chinese (among other possibilities, Russia, Japan, etc.).
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. . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. |
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#22 |
Dynasty Boy
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Michigan
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I think the money is better spent in space than given to some banker who'll either pad his own account (or that of his buddies) or bankrolling some stupid bet that will be the cause of the NEXT crisis and the NEXT bailout.
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#24 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwest
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Quote:
What other problems are we facing besides the economy? |
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#25 |
SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
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If you're a capitalist then no - if you're looking for the future of humankind then yes ...
A LOT of the inventions and improvements of the last few decades have either come out of the space program or been dependant upon its existance (ie. mobile phones, microwaves etc.) ... the problem is that to my knowledge these inventions haven't been things which have made huge profits for the space program itself (if they had I'd expect NASA's funding position would be somewhat better). |
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#26 |
College Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
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A little on the numbers for NASA.
FY 09 appropriation: $17.8 billion FY 10 President's Budget Proposal: $18.7 b FY 10 House-passed: $18.2 b The Senate passed their version this week and I am too lazy to look it up. Suffice it to say that the final budget will probably be in the neighborhood of $18.2 billion. The President's complete budget proposal was $3.55 trillion, and that includes everything -- Social Security, Medicare, the wars, discretionary spending and interest on the national debt. This is the long answer for "Mustang is right." It is about .5% of the full budget. But, still, $18 billion is $18 billion. It is a huge amount of money. This is a very topical poll, as NASA and Congress have just received the findings of the Augustine Commission, which assessed NASA's existing plans, and explored a number of options. In a nutshell, the Commission found that nowhere near enough resources are being allocated to accomplish the existing Moon/Mars plan and that Congress and the Administration need to figure out what they want to do and then make a real budget to do it. NASA has the full report on its website. Last edited by chesapeake : 11-07-2009 at 04:24 PM. |
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#27 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
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I'm fascinated by the concept of the space elevator. I hope that becomes a reality in my lifetime.
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#28 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Damn. TK snuck up on the space program and beat it with a tire iron.
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#29 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Not Delaware - hurray!
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Dude, $18 billion is $6 for each American. Think what that could do for our working families?!
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#30 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Oct 2001
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The 'NASA isn't practical' thinkers out there are generally the same ones that would take that 18 billion and shove it straight into graft. Hell, we spend more than that on military projects to kill people that we do not need since we do a decent job of killing folks as it is!
NASA does need good goals, and pursuing those goals will lead to all sorts of advancements such as those terpkristin described. We need low waste systems perhaps more than anything, we are destroying massive amount of resources the way we currently do things, all in the name of 'economics'. The cost of those will be felt down the line when we turn to recovering all the materials we threw away down the landfills. People keep wanting to do zero-sum reallocation to fix the economy, thinking it just a matter of shoveling money from one hand to another. The point is we need functioning economy that is DOING something, money that is building something, and that the goods it produces have some benefit to humanity. The 1% of the economy in wild ideas is where 90% of the growth probably comes from. |
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#31 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Appleton, WI
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Quote:
This I find very interesting. I did get the feeling while reading the book that he was glossing over some stuff, or painting it in too pretty a light, but I don't understand the science well enough to have a gut feel on the validity. Do you have any suggestions for readings on this topic that is accessible to a novice like me? I'd love to get a more accurate picture of the subject. |
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#32 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
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Quote:
![]() On the original question, yes, unequivocally, and hopefully more of it. It's a disgrace that we could go to the moon or to the bottom of the Marianas trench 40 years ago but now it's too dangerous and/or we're unwilling to spend the money. I hope the Chinese surpass our achievements soon so we can regain the drive necessary to advance. |
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#33 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
A vast majority of weapons research that has happened since the end of the Cold War has been on ways to lessen the impact of war, not increase it. It's true that we could save billions of dollars, but we'd have to go back to firebombing entire cities strategy (or dropping tactical nukes we already have in our inventory), I think spending money on "smart" bombs that target military buildings and have astronomically reduced collateral damage to civilian populations is pretty good spending. Also, the R&D that has gone into fighting IED warfare and supporting troops downrange has likewise been money well spent. |
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#34 |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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#35 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Not Delaware - hurray!
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Quote:
LOL, you're right. That's embarrassing.
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#36 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hog Country
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We definitely need to always continue space exploration.
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#37 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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It seems to me that since most of the big projects take a considerable amount of time to complete, funding should be kept, but it should be "protected" over a longer period of time. This year-by-year funding insecurity seems to create as many problems with the space program as any other factor.
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#38 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego
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Aparently, congress thinks that people are dying in the streets because of the failed health care system in America and that's why they are ram rodding health care reform through as fast as they can instead of concentrating on fixing the economy or other things that are more pressing in my opinion.
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#39 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Colorado Springs
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Space program as a whole == big huge yes. Whether or not NASA/US government should remain doing it, however, is another question. The level of bureaucracy within NASA these days is just mind numbing. Politics have pretty much obliterated them.
I think there's much more promise (as far as manned space travel goes) by the private sector than NASA these days. Virgin & SpaceX have already done some pretty impressive work as it is. |
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#40 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Quote:
Given that studies show that people do die due to lack of healthcare, perhaps it's not outrageous to try to fix that problem.
__________________
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#41 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwest
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Quote:
People die due to life. |
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#42 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego
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Quote:
I'm sorry, but, the economy is in far greater need of fixing than our health care system. Our system of health care in America is not perfect, but, it isn't in some sort of deep crisis or state of failure by any stretch of the imagination. You are going to have people die regardless of them being insured or not. You will never be able to eliminate administration mistakes or workers who don't pay attention or doctors reading a chart wrong, no matter what system is in place. Incompetence by a few does not make a failed heath care system or require a major overhaul. And yes, NASA should be getting more funding.
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#43 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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But people who have insurance die later!
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To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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#44 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwest
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After insurance companies, pharmaceuticals, medical professionals, etc have reaped millions from it. |
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#45 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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I'll back out an let NASA talk continue.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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#46 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ashburn, VA
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Quote:
I've been thinking about this for awhile, the only one I can come up with so far is Jack Schmitt's book. It's interesting to look at his thoughts then, and then to have listened to him a few months ago on the 20th anniversary of the moon landing. I became interested in his book after listening to him on NPR's Science Friday, where he kind of made the same points I do about not sending people to space just for the sake of doing it. What I think all these engineer types really overlook is the human aspect (which I never really thought about until graduate school where I took 3 classes devoted directly to space human factors and had other classes where human spaceflight was a big topic...and now, working in industry, I've consulted on some items for human spaceflight missions). I fully believe that we'll overcome the technological issues, even if it doesn't happen soon. We'll figure out how to produce food in an orbiting or space-traveling vehicle, enough food to provide for a crew. We'll figure out energy sources for propulsion and long-term electricity generation without the ability to use solar arrays that are used nearer to Earth. We'll figure out the water issues. I did an internship at KSC over 10 years ago now, and studies for all those things were well-underway, and progress is definitely being made. But there are aspects of sending humans to space that we haven't figured out, psychology being only a part of the issue. There are issues of medicine in space, how to handle emergencies that could be handled easily on the ground while in space (heart attacks, appendectomies, etc), the ethics of sending women of child-bearing age to space, long-term effects for the body systems, above and beyond the severe bone density loss and muscle mass loss that people face, and I see no indication that these issues are seriously being considered by the likes of Zubrin (and to some extent, Schmitt). That was a run-on sentence, but I think you get the jist. I apologize for my horrible grammar. ![]() And, to be honest, a lot of the question comes back to "why." On ISS, the astronauts aren't doing MUCH science. They spend a lot more time on general upkeep than they do on science, and, for as long as it's been up there (compared with how long the Mars rovers have been up in space and how long Hubble has been up, for example), the science just isn't happening. The only article I've seen in the last year that was directly related to science on-board ISS was about reproduction in mice aboard ISS (I've spent the last 20 minutes looking for the article and now I can't find it). Frankly, robots are good at doing science in space and they don't require much by way of food, and there's a lot less to worry about with them (radiation poisoning on your robot?! oh well...). Are robots perfect? No. But until we can address the human factors issues and the question of "why" send humans, I think they fit the bill. /tk
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#47 |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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NASA finds water on the moon
NASA finds water on the moon - Yahoo! News |
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#48 |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The DMV
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I agree that spending on NASA generates innovation that benefits society as a whole.
But in ways more significant than if NASA were de-funded, I wonder though if the US may lose quite a bit of its relative advantage in innovation because of its post-9/11 policies on student visas. Breakthroughs coming from university research are often generated on the backs of talented graduate students, many of them foreign (especially in the more technical fields). Since it is more difficult to get a visa now, many students are less willing to go through the hassle and are looking elsewhere for graduate training, especially now that many more countries (like China) are ramping up their university research capacity and quality. The concern is that other countries will benefit from the shift in brain power, while it will be more challenging for American graduate programs to attract the levels of talent they used to get easily. Consequently it may be more difficult for the US to keep pace in the technical innovation race. |
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