US Open Thread

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Duval gets to go back to The Masters.

The guy was a douchebag among golfers which was the more impressive accomplishment.

[Dr. Sak]

Congrats to Glover

[spleen1015]

Yeah, grats to him.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Double bogey one time Glover. 4 man playoff.

That would have been awesome.

I started to post last night and accidentally deleted it. I thought -3 or -4 at best was going to win. I didn't Barnes or Glover any credit for holding on so tip of the cap to Glover for hanging in there.

But I would have put my money on Weir going into today and lost. He was already struggling before he lost his tee shot. I have no idea where Duval pulled this weekend out of. If the weight helps him get back going, good for him. But his arrogance is simply astounding.

Really feel bad for Lefty. With the number of times he's come so close, I was left thinking of Payne Stewart today. Payne carried the nickname "Avis" back in the day because he came in second so many times. he finished second in a major four times won three just like Phil has, but Phil has eclipsed Payne's standard for runner-up. He didn't really do anything horrible wrong today, he just missed some shots and Glover didn't.

Tiger did about what I expected today. I think if he had gone out and posted -3 under, Glover would have peed down his leg. But when Tiger gets behind at a major, he just gets too aggressive and that doesn't work. Glover pulling out iron on 18 was classic. If Phil had done that at Winged Foot, he'd had that silver trophy.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Choke? He didn't shoot any rounds over par. Barnes choked...

He bogeyed 15 and 17 did he not? Didn't give himself good chances at 16 or 18, and missed the green entirely on 17. And this on three holes he had good records on the first three days. Duval had three birdies in a row late before the bogey on 17, and Glover recovered from a bogey on 15 with a birdie and got pars on the final two holes. Barnes parred his last five holes after the disastrous rest of the round. So yes he choked.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

He bogeyed 15 and 17 did he not? Didn't give himself good chances at 16 or 18, and missed the green entirely on 17. And this on three holes he had good records on the first three days. Duval had three birdies in a row late before the bogey on 17, and Glover recovered from a bogey on 15 with a birdie and got pars on the final two holes. Barnes parred his last five holes after the disastrous rest of the round. So yes he choked.

This is the US Open you are going to have bogeys. You are acting like he had a 6 shot lead and blew it again. At Winged Foot he choked...he did not choke here. Both of the putts on 17 and 18 were good efforts at the hole. There were no shanks. And 15 was the hardest hole on the golf course with it playing almost a half a shot over par.

So by your account, Duval choked, Tiger choked...give me a break. Phil was one of the few if not the only person to shoot par or better every round.

[Fidatelo]

Everyone who didn't win choked. Bunch of lousy chokers in that PGA. Glover is a man among boys.

[B & B]

Took Glover last night to win at small + money just based on the scores.

If you took a flyer with Lucas on Wednesday you could have cashed 200/1.

[kcchief19]

Other than Barnes, I don't think anyone choked this away. Glover simply beat Phil and the others.

I guess I'm a bit of a front-runner fan because I don't really take any enjoyment from a darkhorse winning the open or any major for that matter. I mean, good for him, but I would rather see someone consistently pays their dues and has "earned" it win rather than someone who just bolts out of nowhere with a good weekend.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

This is the US Open you are going to have bogeys. You are acting like he had a 6 shot lead and blew it again. At Winged Foot he choked...he did not choke here. Both of the putts on 17 and 18 were good efforts at the hole. There were no shanks. And 15 was the hardest hole on the golf course with it playing almost a half a shot over par.

So by your account, Duval choked, Tiger choked...give me a break. Phil was one of the few if not the only person to shoot par or better every round.

It wasn't a monumental choke like Winged Foot was and I grant you that 15 was the hardest hole on the course, so a bogey there in a US Open should be expected more often than not I guess. But Glover birdied after bogeying 15, Duval birdied in, Barnes parred it. Phil played the final four holes +2, Barnes and Glover played them Even and Duval played it -1. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Phil hit the fairway on 15 and 16, missed the green on 17, and then had a second shot on 18 with a wedge. Phil may be the best ever around the green and hit a pretty mediocre shot there.

I think the other three handled the pressure of the final four holes better than Phil. Don't call it a choke if you want then, but Phil given who he was facing, should have come out better than he did. The worse he should have done in my opinion is a tie and playoff with Glover. I like Phil, and I was really pulling for him, but this really was a golden opportunity for him and he didn't come through.

[k0ruptr]

Was really happy to see Duval put together a really good 4 rounds at a major tournament. I'm not his biggest fan or anything, but its always good to see guys who lose the game for a while make a semi comeback, even if it is just one tournament so far.

[Atocep]

I usually love watching the US Open. Far and away my favorite tournament of year. This wasn't the US Open, though. Watching this wasn't any different than watching any other random tournament throughout the year.

Hopefully the weather cooperates next year and Pebble Beach plays a lot more like your typical US Open.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I usually love watching the US Open. Far and away my favorite tournament of year. This wasn't the US Open, though. Watching this wasn't any different than watching any other random tournament throughout the year.

Hopefully the weather cooperates next year and Pebble Beach plays a lot more like your typical US Open.

Pebble Beach is beautiful (I've been there), but for pros, it's like any other easy public course. The winner will be in the -25 range.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Pebble Beach is beautiful (I've been there), but for pros, it's like any other easy public course. The winner will be in the -25 range.

Have you watched previous Opens at Pebble? They trick up the course, so it is much different from the AT&T. Scores will be much lower. In 2000, Tiger more than lapped the field, winning by 15 strokes, and only shot 272 (-12) (and I was there to see it first hand). No one is going to shoot -25.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by digamma

Have you watched previous Opens at Pebble? They trick up the course, so it is much different from the AT&T. Scores will be much lower. In 2000, Tiger more than lapped the field, winning by 15 strokes, and only shot 272 (-12) (and I was there to see it first hand). No one is going to shoot -25.

Hopefully you're right.

[Dr. Sak]

I heard them say Arnold Palmer is at Pebble making it tougher...they have lengthened a few holes and it will play over 7200 yds.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Hopefully you're right.

It's not a matter of being right. It's a fact. The 72 hole scoring record for the AT&T Pro Am is only 268, and that's with playing Spyglass and Poppy Hills. 272 is a US Open scoring record. No one is going to shoot 260. I'd wager a fair sum of money no one is going to shoot 272 (or even 274) next year.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by digamma

It's not a matter of being right. It's a fact. The 72 hole scoring record for the AT&T Pro Am is only 268, and that's with playing Spyglass and Poppy Hills. 272 is a US Open scoring record. No one is going to shoot 260. I'd wager a fair sum of money no one is going to shoot 272 (or even 274) next year.

Out of all of the courses that host the U.S. Open, would you say that Pebble Beach is at least in the top 3 easiest? I'd check the past scores, but I'm too lazy right now.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Out of all of the courses that host the U.S. Open, would you say that Pebble Beach is at least in the top 3 easiest? I'd check the past scores, but I'm too lazy right now.

Using Wiki, I did a simple check on winner's scores in relation to par since par is not the same for every course. By this standard, it depends on whether you count Tiger's abberation in 2000 (-12). I dropped all the courses that have only hosted the US Open once and all events prior to 1930 (mainly because the relation-to-par score wasn't available). This results in a list of 19 courses to compare.

With Tiger's 2000 win put in, Pebble has hosted 4 times and the winner has averaged a -4.75 in relation to par, which makes it second lowest after Hazeltine (twice hosted, -6.5 for the winner). Take Tiger's performance out and the winner's score drops to -2.33 over three other appearances at Pebble Beach. This is still sixth lowest.

At the other end, Inverness, Merion, and Winged Foot have been nasty courses to play as the average relation to par score is over +2 for all three with Winged Foot coming in at +2.5. Of the 11 times those three courses hosted, only twice did the winner go under par (though oddly by substantial margins, a -4 at Winged Foot by Fuzzy Zoeller in 1984 and a whopping -7 at Merion by David Graham in 1981).

Couple of other interesting items based on the running of the numbers:
*Oakmont has hosted seven times, the most of any course. It also must be the fairest course over time because the average winning score is even par.

*Of 19 courses, only six have actually had the average winning score over par over time. Besides the three at +2 or more, there's Olympic, Oakland Hills, and The Country Club.



You just had to throw down that gauntlet, didn't you, Schmidty?