Cash for clunkers

[panerd]

Don't know if this has been discussed elsewhere and I guess I understand the intent of the bill but the fact that I can trade in a piece of shit $200 car for a '10 Chevy Camero on the taxpayer's dollar AND that it is supposed to be a bill to help save the environment seems preposterous. Come on politicians if you had some brass you would make the MPG at least 30+. Wonder who had influence on this one?

And since the taxpayers own one of the companies how come this isn't for American cars only?

[stevew]

i assume there will be a list of cars somewhere that qualify? Kia and the other Korean companies will win on this.

[Galaxy]

Wouldn't it be great if all that people went for well-run foreign companies (Honda, Toyota, Kia, ect.)? The term "American" cars is one I hate. Companies like Honda and Toyota are made in America by American workers.

I'm guessing that protectionism for US-based carmakers would violate trade agreements and cause other countries to impose their own protectionism policies against US companies.

[Mustang]

From what I read, you have to have had the car 1 year and it needs to be rated 18 miles or less or be a 1984 or newer.

Not sure how they rate the older cars...

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by Mustang

From what I read, you have to have had the car 1 year and it needs to be rated 18 miles or less or be a 1984 or newer.

Not sure how they rate the older cars...

I hear the 18 or less as well - my buddy was going to try and see if his car qualified (its quite a pile), but like he said "even this P.O.S. gets 21 MPG!"

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

I hear the 18 or less as well - my buddy was going to try and see if his car qualified (its quite a pile), but like he said "even this P.O.S. gets 21 MPG!"

I think to get less than 18, it would have to be a sports car, a truck or a car dragging around a 500 lb concrete weight. I had a 84 Pontiac 6000 that was a piece of crap and that got 25.

Unless that are going to do something like factor in a decrease of fuel efficiency over time.. like a car becomes 2% less full efficient every year so, a 1984 new would be 30 MPG, but after 25 years, it is 50%.. which might not be true, but who knows.

Or, more likely, a person comes in and the dealer asks how efficient it is and the person say 1 MPG and the dealer just signs some stupid document saying their mechanics checked it out and wow... surprise surprise, it does get 1 MPG.

[sterlingice]

Hell, if we own GM, I'd be perfectly ok with it being a tax break if you buy GM cars. If we're going to take money out of our tax pockets, we might as well put them back into our tax pockets.

SI

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Mustang

I think to get less than 18, it would have to be a sports car, a truck or a car dragging around a 500 lb concrete weight. I had a 84 Pontiac 6000 that was a piece of crap and that got 25.

Unless that are going to do something like factor in a decrease of fuel efficiency over time.. like a car becomes 2% less full efficient every year so, a 1984 new would be 30 MPG, but after 25 years, it is 50%.. which might not be true, but who knows.

Or, more likely, a person comes in and the dealer asks how efficient it is and the person say 1 MPG and the dealer just signs some stupid document saying their mechanics checked it out and wow... surprise surprise, it does get 1 MPG.

My guess is the second. You come in and want to trade your 2000 Saturn for a 2010 Camero and you ask the dealer if you can get the $3500 from the government. Either they fudge the agreement and get the $3500 from the government or they have to find a way to cut $3500 of their possible profit from their own pocket to satisfy you.

[lighthousekeeper]

texas has had a similar program for a few years now, which i'm tangentially involved with: Is your car or truck 10 years old or older? Or has it failed an emissions test? - Texas Commission on Environmental Quality - www.tceq.state.tx.us

[RainMaker]

Does anyone have a link to the exact proposal/bill? I have a 98 Monte Carlo that I would LOVE to trade in. It gets like 30MPG though I believe. Pretty crazy that it's a 10 year old car and gets better gas mileage than a lot of shit made today.

I look at what cell phones have transformed into over the last decade. and the progress technologically. The auto industry is embarassing.

[DanGarion]

They have this in England.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

They have this in England.

Cars?

I knew they were an advanced people.

[fantom1979]

Everything I have seen requred your trade in car to currently have ridiculously low MPG and buy a car with ridiculously high MPG. My eight year old POS did not qualify by a long shot.

Found this on msnbc.com

Under the proposal, car owners could get a voucher worth $3,500 if they traded in a vehicle getting 18 miles per gallon or less for one getting at least 22 mpg. The value of the voucher would grow to $4,500 if the mileage of the new car was 10 mpg higher than the old vehicle. The miles per gallon figures are listed on the car window's sticker.

Owners of sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks or minivans that get 18 mpg or less could receive a voucher for $3,500 if their new truck or SUV got at least 2 mpg higher than their old vehicle. The voucher would increase to $4,500 if the mileage of the new truck or SUV was at least 5 mpg higher than the older vehicle.

Dealers participating in the program would receive an electronic voucher from the government for the trade-in to apply to the purchase or lease of a qualifying vehicle. The bill directs dealers to ensure that the older vehicles are crushed or shredded to get the clunkers off the road.

The program was intended to help replace older vehicles — built in model year 1984 or later — and would not make financial sense for consumers owning an older car with a trade-in value greater than $3,500 or $4,500.

http://cbs13.com/politics/clash.for....2.1050453.html


Looks like the Senate approved it on Thursday, and will be in Obama's hands for a signature. Program could start as early as August. To me, this is just another program where I get no benefit from the government for being a responsible person who purchased a fuel efficient car 8 years ago.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

Looks like the Senate approved it on Thursday, and will be in Obama's hands for a signature. Program could start as early as August. To me, this is just another program where I get no benefit from the government for being a responsible person who purchased a fuel efficient car 8 years ago.

Well, except all the money you've saved over the last 8 years...

SI

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

...Companies like Honda and Toyota are made in America by American workers...

More precisely, ASSSEMBLED in the U.S. The design work, testing work, and profits all go back to Japan. May not mean much to some but it is a difference.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Cars?

I knew they were an advanced people.

Now if they could just figure out the whole dental thing...

[flere-imsaho]

This is basically a "Turn in your Hummer or 4WD monster SUV for a FWD SUV and get $3500" program.

The fact that you can get $3500 for going from 18mpg to 22mpg makes a mockery of the program.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

This is basically a "Turn in your Hummer or 4WD monster SUV for a FWD SUV and get $3500" program.

The fact that you can get $3500 for going from 18mpg to 22mpg makes a mockery of the program.

You don't even have to stretch all the way to 22mpg. 20mpg will do for the $3500 gift. It would take a whopping 23mpg to get that extra grand.

If I got this in an email, I'd send it right to the spam folder. Wealthy prince exiled from Mozambique, eh...?

[chesapeake]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I'm guessing that protectionism for US-based carmakers would violate trade agreements and cause other countries to impose their own protectionism policies against US companies.

Good guess, and correct.

Bill text can be found at hxxp://www.thomas.gov/, look up HR 2346, select "text of legislation" and choose the last option -- "Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate." You'll want Title XIII. Enjoy.