Obama Appointees and Tax Questions

[SportsDino]

I like how all these well to do politically connected people never seem to know they have taxes due. Since half of them are responsible for creating this tax code, I think they would understand that it applies to them. Obviously its not a mere coincidence, the politicians are merely slime, and there is no point in defending them. Ah the joys of being an independent, I get to hate everyone!

Thanks for answering my question Jon.

[ISiddiqui]

Really? More tax issues. This one doesn't look too bad (though it does impact my future boss), but still.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

sounds to me like maybe they were never notified properly. they certainly paid them prompty once they were notified.

Yes, so did Daschle, our new commerce secretary, etc.............

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SportsDino

I like how all these well to do politically connected people never seem to know they have taxes due. Since half of them are responsible for creating this tax code, I think they would understand that it applies to them. Obviously its not a mere coincidence, the politicians are merely slime, and there is no point in defending them. Ah the joys of being an independent, I get to hate everyone!

Thanks for answering my question Jon.

+1

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yes, so did Daschle, our new commerce secretary, etc.............

see now that's just being silly. i didn't really see the details of what daschle's exact response was, but my understanding is:

daschle basically said he wasn't aware that he had to pay them on that. and it was him, his personal taxes.

her husband is basically saying "i never got the notification in the mail" for his business

big difference. one is "i'm a sleezy politician," and one is "i'm a hard-working guy and they lost the piece of mail that told me that i had to pay."

that being said - I do find it somewhat dissapointing that the vetting-process didn't uncover all of these problems ahead of time. They ought to have ex-IRS agents or ace investigative reporters or whatever on-hand TRYING to dig this shit up.

then again, i guess the thinking is that everybody has something they're hiding and there is no really absolutely-clean candidate.

[DaddyTorgo]

my other thought is like: how many people really have perfect tax-filing records out there?

with the convoluted mess that is our tax code, and the general antipathy towards the IRS, I would bet that the percentage is very small. now sure, you can say that the number ought to be much closer to 100% in public office (in fact I'd like to see it be 100%), but I'm not sure that is realistic.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

see now that's just being silly. i didn't really see the details of what daschle's exact response was, but my understanding is:

daschle basically said he wasn't aware that he had to pay them on that. and it was him, his personal taxes.

her husband is basically saying "i never got the notification in the mail" for his business

big difference. one is "i'm a sleezy politician," and one is "i'm a hard-working guy and they lost the piece of mail that told me that i had to pay."

that being said - I do find it somewhat dissapointing that the vetting-process didn't uncover all of these problems ahead of time. They ought to have ex-IRS agents or ace investigative reporters or whatever on-hand TRYING to dig this shit up.

then again, i guess the thinking is that everybody has something they're hiding and there is no really absolutely-clean candidate.

This post is comedy gold.

1. I don't care if you say you "didn't know about that" or "you didn't receive it in the mail" and neither does the IRS. You didn't pay taxes when you should have and the IRS accepts no excuses. Saying that he didn't receive it in the mail doesn't mean he didn't receive it. In addition, there are multiple notifications for these kinds of things. He may not have got the first one, but he can't lose them all.

2. The finishing "everybody has dirty laundry" excuse was like one of Liberace's coats. It looked fabulous, but really wasn't worth a damn to anyone outside of the person who owned it. "Everybody" doesn't have something to hide and using that as an excuse for these people who have more than enough money to afford a good accountant is hogwash at best.

[SportsDino]

I've got a clean tax record, and given my finances and the stupidity of our tax code that is a pain in the ass. Still, I'm sure if I didn't pay a dime of it the IRS would not let me forget... Something tells me the frequency of audits on public servants is probably not as high as on other occupations, I wonder if there is a statistic on that we could get....

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SportsDino

I've got a clean tax record, and given my finances and the stupidity of our tax code that is a pain in the ass. Still, I'm sure if I didn't pay a dime of it the IRS would not let me forget... Something tells me the frequency of audits on public servants is probably not as high as on other occupations, I wonder if there is a statistic on that we could get....

it probably should be higher

[RainMaker]

Maybe I'm naive to the tax code, but I own a business and have never had issues with my taxes. While it can be complicated, any good accountant should be able to decipher this stuff fairly easily. I can understand some really obscure errors, but most of these mistakes that have been made are real simple. I'm tired of these people making excuses about how difficult the tax code is when I and many others have no problem recording how much money we make on an annual basis.

This whole mess also makes me feel like a jackass for actually being honest and paying my taxes.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

If I buy a house I can't afford and have no intention of paying off, do I have to pay taxes on it?

[ISiddiqui]

Only if you get nominated for Obama's cabinet.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Saying that he didn't receive it in the mail doesn't mean he didn't receive it. In addition, there are multiple notifications for these kinds of things. He may not have got the first one, but he can't lose them all.

Then again this is the USPS we're talking about.

I've lived that deal first hand more times than I can count, most recently with the company who does the chemical treatments for our lawn. I tried everything I could think of, they tried everything they could think of, we must have checked & re-checked the address they were using a half dozen times in a year, including character by character and still ... pfft. We finally agreed to give up on mailing me anything & just have stuff hung on the front doorknob. And that's just the most recent example, certainly not the only one of it's kind.

From governmental agencies with threatening letters to near junk mail, there's nothing they can't seem to fail to deliver when it comes to day to day mail (I've mentioned my very good luck with their Priority Mail service) and that includes repeated failures on the same thing from the same sender over & over.

Personal experience makes it pretty much impossible for me to question that particular answer because no matter how unlikely it might sound, I know that it's actually quite possible.

[SFL Cat]

I suppose that's why Dems have no problems raising taxes...they don't pay em.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

While we are at almost polar opposites, I do respect that you're honest in your arguments.

There's always a consistency and logic to Jon's arguments. Where we differ, typically, is in the assumptions/beliefs that underpin those arguments. It's also why I typically don't argue (well, argue seriously) with Jon anymore - the bases of our arguments are so divergent there's little common ground on which to argue.

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

I suppose that's why Dems have no problems raising taxes...they don't pay em.

Here's a Democrat that pays his taxes, is happy to have taxes raised (well, except for the Cook County Board, the thieving bastards) and is likely in a higher tax bracket than you.

So neener.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Here's a Democrat that pays his taxes, is happy to have taxes raised ...

And yet people occasionally wonder why I question the intelligence of my political opposition?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Then again this is the USPS we're talking about.

I've lived that deal first hand more times than I can count, most recently with the company who does the chemical treatments for our lawn. I tried everything I could think of, they tried everything they could think of, we must have checked & re-checked the address they were using a half dozen times in a year, including character by character and still ... pfft. We finally agreed to give up on mailing me anything & just have stuff hung on the front doorknob. And that's just the most recent example, certainly not the only one of it's kind.

From governmental agencies with threatening letters to near junk mail, there's nothing they can't seem to fail to deliver when it comes to day to day mail (I've mentioned my very good luck with their Priority Mail service) and that includes repeated failures on the same thing from the same sender over & over.

Personal experience makes it pretty much impossible for me to question that particular answer because no matter how unlikely it might sound, I know that it's actually quite possible.

The USPS is a fucking joke. My business moved into a small office in Chicago over a year ago (just outside the heavy business district but still in a business area). We are on the 3rd floor and they refuse to deliver packages to the actual office. They'll leave notes up front and won't ring the buzzer. One day the guy did, we ran down and the guy was already half way down the block.

So we moved to a UPS store mailbox to ensure we could actually get packages. They decide that for the most part, they'll deliver the bulk of the mail on Fridays. That's right, we get a piece of mail here or there during the week, and then a gigantic stack on Friday. The guys at the UPS store have said they complained like crazy about this and basically were told to fuck themselves.

I've sent letters to the postmaster and our representative in the district. Actually got a response from my rep but nothing was fixed. So basically all the businesses in my neighborhood have to wait around till Fridays to get most of their mail. You can probably guess that this is a huge hassle and the running joke in the neighborhood.

/rant

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Here's a Democrat that pays his taxes, is happy to have taxes raised (well, except for the Cook County Board, the thieving bastards) and is likely in a higher tax bracket than you.

I also don't mind paying my taxes if they go toward things that are worthwhile. I'd pay an extra percent if it meant a real health care system. I'd pay more if it mean our schools were better and infrastructure was sound. I think the issue I have with higher taxes is that it seems to be going over to the middle east and toward failing businesses.

Are you a fellow Cook County Illinois resident?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

We are on the 3rd floor and they refuse to deliver packages to the actual office.

Just based on that description of the layout, it's quite possible that they aren't refusing to but instead that they aren't allowed to under postal guidelines designed to get them off the street & off the clock as quickly as possible.

Probably the easiest way to figure out if that's the case is if you have "cluster boxes" instead of regular letter mail being dropped off at your door, then you're screwed. All part of the same move to eliminate door to door delivery for residential addresses & move new construction to the cluster box system.

Now you may also know different & simply have a sorry ass lazy carrier, but it sounded likely enough to be worth mentioning.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Then again this is the USPS we're talking about.

Frankly, I used to think that people who bitched about the Post Office were just the type of people who bitched about everything and would never be happy. Instead, I'm starting to find out about the post office is that it's very YMMV.

I never had any issues with the post office either in Houston or Lawrence. Always seemed to be on time. Hardly ever missed mail- I can't think of any instances where I found out after the fact that I missed something or didn't get something I was expecting. Stuff was placed neatly in the mailbox, etc. Heck, I lived in a crappy apartment in Lawrence that cost $460 a month so that should tell you the caliber of place I was living and they still got it right.

Richmond- it's a whole other beast. Mail is always late- those mailing for weekly food ads arrive on Friday or Saturday and the sales expire on... Saturday. Bills are 2 and 3 days later than they were in Lawrence. They love to cram crap as dense as possible into the mailbox and they love to crush stuff even if it's not that full.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Instead, I'm starting to find out about the post office is that it's very YMMV.

Yep.

Full disclosure here, for anyone who doesn't recall me mentioning it before, my dad retired from the USPS after more than 20 years, so it's not as though I'm averse to being sympathetic to their plight. I also did a brief miserable stint with them as well (worst work environment I've ever experienced by far).

What it really seems to come down to is the quality of employee on your route/in your local office, and the quality of the supervision that the rank & file are getting. Get a few slugs together with a boss that proves out the Peter Principle is alive and well and it's a recipe for constant frustration.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Just based on that description of the layout, it's quite possible that they aren't refusing to but instead that they aren't allowed to under postal guidelines designed to get them off the street & off the clock as quickly as possible.

Probably the easiest way to figure out if that's the case is if you have "cluster boxes" instead of regular letter mail being dropped off at your door, then you're screwed. All part of the same move to eliminate door to door delivery for residential addresses & move new construction to the cluster box system.

Now you may also know different & simply have a sorry ass lazy carrier, but it sounded likely enough to be worth mentioning.

I'm not sure. They used to deliver them up to the offices according to other tenants. That doesn't bother me though, it's the fact they won't ring a buzzer and let us come down to get it. It's the fact they don't even attempt to deliver packages.

I think the post office is just hit or miss depending on where you live. I lived in a small town in Minnesota for awhile and had phenomenal mail service. It was quick and reliable. Move to the city and I'm afraid to send anything via the USPS.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I also don't mind paying my taxes if they go toward things that are worthwhile. I'd pay an extra percent if it meant a real health care system. I'd pay more if it mean our schools were better and infrastructure was sound. I think the issue I have with higher taxes is that it seems to be going over to the middle east and toward failing businesses.

Oh, I agree 100%.

Are you a fellow Cook County Illinois resident?

You bet. They're my favorite counter-example. I am in no way interested in paying high Cook County (IL) taxes because I know that money will be wasted. In fact, I'm convinced over 50% of their budget are salaries for patronage jobs, sweetheart contract deals, or other corruption.

Jerks. And of course we'll now have Todd Stroger as Board President for the next 50 years. Almost makes one want to move to Lake County.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

You bet. They're my favorite counter-example. I am in no way interested in paying high Cook County (IL) taxes because I know that money will be wasted. In fact, I'm convinced over 50% of their budget are salaries for patronage jobs, sweetheart contract deals, or other corruption.

Jerks. And of course we'll now have Todd Stroger as Board President for the next 50 years. Almost makes one want to move to Lake County.

Yeah, once the sales tax got raised I signed up for Amazon Prime and order everything online. Wish there was something that could be done, but voters in this county aren't too sharp.

[flere-imsaho]

I hate to say it, but our best chance was when John Stroger had his stroke. I think Claypool, who has a decent track record, could have brought about some reform. But no, everyone on the south side votes for Stroger and then the party machine puts his son in his place. That pissed me off so much I actually voted for Peraica in the general, even though he's a confirmed wacko.

[DaddyTorgo]

just to even things out a bit

WASHINGTON (CNN) – New Republican National Committee chairman Michael Steele said Sunday that payments to his sister’s company by his 2006 Senate campaign were proper.

Steele’s former finance chairman alleged in documents provided to federal prosecutors that Steele arranged for his Senate campaign to pay tens of thousands of dollars to a company owned by his sister, according to a report by the Washington Post published Saturday.

Alan B. Fabian, the former Steele aide, alleged that the company never performed any services for the campaign in exchange for the money and the Post reported that the company was defunct at the time the payment was made.

[flere-imsaho]

Heard Joe Scarborough (of all people) on NPR's Weekend Edition Saturday defending Daschle. Said he didn't know either that "car service" was taxable until an associate told him to get the networks to write into his next contract that they'd take care of the taxes. Apparently he said "What taxes?"

Clearly more of these people need to hire accountants.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

just to even things out a bit

WASHINGTON (CNN) – New Republican National Committee chairman Michael Steele

Let's not even get me started on that subject, m'kay.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Let's not even get me started on that subject, m'kay.

i was talking about this with one of my best friends (who happens to be of the african-american persuasion) on friday - neither of us are even sure that this guy has any qualifications for the job.

so i ask - does he? is he remotely qualified, or is this basically out-and-out tokenism?

[flere-imsaho]

To be RNC Chairman? Look, I don't like the guy, but I'm sure he's qualified.

The job of the DNC/RNC Chairman is to further the electoral ends of the party. This means schmoozing, raising money, schmoozing, being a pundit, schmoozing, convincing good candidates to run, and more schmoozing.

The guy doesn't have much in the way of electoral successes, but not all XNC Chairmen have. What he does have is a somewhat-national name recognition based on the self-promotion work he's done, along with a significant portion of the Conservative pundit class who adore him. His job is to translate both of those into money and electoral success.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

so i ask - does he? is he remotely qualified, or is this basically out-and-out tokenism?

Eh, yeah, I'd say he's at worst remotely qualified and probably a bit more than that. The job is part organizer, part fund-raiser, part platform influencer, part mouthpiece & pep rally leader. He's definitely qualified for the last bit with quotes like "I get a question all the time, 'Are you going to run again for office?' And I've thought about that, and I've come to realize that there's still some Democrats out there that I haven't ticked off yet. So, yeah, we're gonna do it again. We're gonna do it again, and all I have to say is, they haven't seen anything yet."

The tokenism becomes more apparent when you consider some of his positions, the most obvious probably being his support of various affirmative action programs, death penalty opposition & gun control advocacy also come to mind. Now unless there's been a major shift in party dogma that I missed, I'm going to figure that probably wouldn't go over real well with the voters he'd like to influence or the base is being taken completely for granted at this point.

Someone is power would do well to remember that there's one Hell of a lot of Reagan-era converts that have been Dems in their voting lifetimes, might not want to start ignoring them if you intend to keep them in the fold. Or maybe it's just a sign of complete capitulation & an acknowledgment that there really isn't a winnable election in the immediate future.

The real irony in his appointment is that he's a candidate that I imagine a large number of Republican office holders would love to face in a primary in their own district. Which leads me to think that there was probably some element of "we've got to sacrifice somebody for the 2010 cycle, might as well be him" in the final vote.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i was talking about this with one of my best friends (who happens to be of the african-american persuasion) on friday - neither of us are even sure that this guy has any qualifications for the job.

so i ask - does he? is he remotely qualified, or is this basically out-and-out tokenism?

As pointed out, the RNC Chair is an organizer. For one, he supports the Rebuild Plan that Patrick Ruffini has put out there, which basically has a plan to run competitive races in each Congressional Seat (somewhat echoing Dean's 50 state plan) and getting more active online as well as organizing more grassroots volunteers on a permanent basis.

He is more moderate on a number of stances, but is seen to be conservative on most things. He is seen as a person who can reach out to both sides: conservatives and moderates; and is on record of wanting a bigger tent (and echoing Reagan's "people who agree with us 80% of the time are not our enemies"), including those who support gay marriage and those who are pro-life, as long as they are Republican in other matters.

[DaddyTorgo]

I know that the party chair is an organizer position.

Just saying I'd never heard of this guy before - who the heck is he and what is his background.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I know that the party chair is an organizer position.

Just saying I'd never heard of this guy before - who the heck is he and what is his background.

I personally really like Steele. He was an attorney and then was elected Lieutenant Gov. of Maryland, which is relatively impressive given the Democratic majority base in that state. Really likeable guy with a great personality. He's very genuine when he speaks.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I'm surprised you missed the story about his sister, then. Your muckraking must have been off for the weekend.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Really likeable guy with a great personality. He's very genuine when he speaks.

I don't know if I'd go with "great" but definitely has "plenty" of personality, no doubt about that.

I don't particularly doubt his sincerity either, it's what he says when he speaks that gives me great pause and gives me considerable doubt whether a party with him at the head is one that I can electorally caucus with for much longer.

When we're in direct conflict on several key issues like the ones I mentioned up the thread, one of us is probably in the wrong place. The national party can cast their lot however they choose of course but I'm not sure they have a chance to win a single state in a national election, nor keep even 25% of Congressional seats if they follow the path he'd like to see.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I also don't mind paying my taxes if they go toward things that are worthwhile. I'd pay an extra percent if it meant a real health care system. I'd pay more if it mean our schools were better and infrastructure was sound. I think the issue I have with higher taxes is that it seems to be going over to the middle east and toward failing businesses.

There's nothing stopping you from donating your money directly to the schools, or to hospitals. I guarantee it will do more good than the equivalent tax money.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i was talking about this with one of my best friends (who happens to be of the african-american persuasion) on friday - neither of us are even sure that this guy has any qualifications for the job.

so i ask - does he? is he remotely qualified, or is this basically out-and-out tokenism?

As qualified as the Chairman of any scorched earth party could be. I mean, he was an elected official and as David Patterson and Pat Quinn have proven, it's possible everyone once in a while to make that job useful. The job is about as useful as a position coach in the NFL and so, as a figurehead, he'll be fine. And was the most charismatic of the candidates, but that's not saying much.

That said, he's hellbent on making himself seem like something other than the prototypical water carrier for the GOP causes, to seem more "authentic" or whatever to prospective black voters.

To me, he seems like a RINO who knew he'd never get elected as a Democrat and being a Republican meant he could influence tax policy to save himself some cash.

Perhaps his arrival can hasten the day when the social conservatives and the libertarian minded, freedom lovers can go their separate ways.

Won't happen, but...right now the GOP is nothing but a populist bunch of know-nothing ostriches who don't have much of a grasp on reality, who think marriage, banning abortion and cutting taxes on everyone but poor folks will solve all of our problems. Their response to the stimulus is disappointing, because they should've taken these positions back when Bush was ballooning the deficit to the high heavens.

I'd love to see a center-right coalition emerge in American politics, it'll be pragmatist, but any party hoping to get elected would need to be.

He's going to put a palatable face on their silliness for some, but hiring a train conductor to run a zoo isn't going to get you very good results and likely to get you killed.

[ISiddiqui]

I can't freaking believe this (I guess I can):

Trade nominee Ron Kirk agrees to pay back taxes

WASHINGTON – Ron Kirk, nominated as U.S. Trade Representative in the Obama administration, owes an estimated $10,000 in back taxes from earlier in the decade and has agreed to make his payments, the Senate Finance Committee said Monday.



The committee said the taxes arise from Kirk's handling of speaking fees that he donated to his alma mater, and for his deduction of the full cost of season tickets to the Dallas Mavericks professional basketball team.



The disclosure made the former Dallas mayor the latest in a string of top-level Obama administration appointees found to have underpaid their taxes, following Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner and Tom Daschle, who withdrew as candidate for Health and Human Services secretary. Nancy Killefer, Obama's pick for chief performance officer, also bowed out amid tax problems.

[flere-imsaho]

Did I read that right: you can deduct the cost of season tickets?

[sterlingice]

Companies can, as an entertainment expense- why do you think suites and such are sold out? It's not like normal people can buy them. I'd love to see that provision done away with but it will never happen (and it would crush a giant revenue stream for all sports)

SI

[flere-imsaho]

Ah, good point. Can't believe I didn't think of that. MOAR CAFFEINE!!111ONEONEoneone

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Companies can, as an entertainment expense- why do you think suites and such are sold out? It's not like normal people can buy them. I'd love to see that provision done away with but it will never happen (and it would crush a giant revenue stream for all sports)

SI

Don't they serve the same purpose as an dinner, a golf event, marketing events?

[sterlingice]

My thought is that a lot of that stuff should be stripped out of there as a tax incentive. A marketing event like a trade show is one thing as it's clearly a business event. A golf outing or expensive dinner with clients on the company or tickets to the Knicks is another in my mind.

And I know this gets a lot more complicated as that's not even getting into the grey area inbetween the two where a lot of this stuff lives. I know how we can give our clients/partners/Congressmen a vacation: we'll have a trade show *at* a golf course and claim it's purely business.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Tack on another cabinet member who failed to pay some taxes.......

Sebelius admits errors, pays $7,000 in back taxes

You start to wonder just how many politicians have these skeletons in their closet. They just don't come to light until the scrutiny starts. Speaks poorly of our elected officials.

[sterlingice]

Kindof silly that it never comes up in any of their other races either- I mean, geez, she ran for governor in 2006- one of the years she didn't pay properly.

It's starting to look like Obama has better tax vetting accountants than any of her opposition's dirt people

SI

[flere-imsaho]

Here's the detail:

Charitable contributions over $250 are supposed to include an acknowledgment letter from the charity in order for a deduction to be taken. Out of 49 charitable contributions made, three letters couldn't be found.

Sebelius and her husband took deductions for mortgage interest that they weren't entitled to. The couple sold their home in 2006 for less than what they owed on the mortgage. They continued to make payments on the mortgage, including interest. But since they no longer owned the home they weren't entitled to take deductions for the interest. The same thing happened with a home improvement loan. Sebelius said they "mistakenly believed" the payments were still deductible.

Insufficient documentation was found for some business expense deductions.