OT: No White Teacher For Black History

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Fritz
The classes I have seen that are "world history" are almost the same as "western civ" with a few chapters slipped in about China, Japan, and India. This is certainly not a comprehensive overview of the history of the world and too disjoined IMHO. It has been while since I have seen a HS textbook, so perhaps this has been improved.

I have no quarrel at all with a class about "western civilization" following basically the path you lay out. That's how it ought to be focused - makes plenty of sense.

However, if that is essentially the curriculum for "world history" (as you describe it above) or if "western civ" is all that's needed outside US History, then I think students are getting cheated out of a meaningful understanding of world cultures. It's not that I object to talking about history of people that happen to be white - it's more about what's being missed in the process.

I don't think we're all that far apart - I agree with your conclusions above. (And I'd aleo leave the door open to things having changed since my impressions were formed)

[Fritz]

Originally posted by QuikSand
I have no quarrel at all with a class about "western civilization" following basically the path you lay out. That's how it ought to be focused - makes plenty of sense.

However, if that is essentially the curriculum for "world history" (as you describe it above) or if "western civ" is all that's needed outside US History, then I think students are getting cheated out of a meaningful understanding of world cultures. It's not that I object to talking about history of people that happen to be white - it's more about what's being missed in the process.

I don't think we're all that far apart - I agree with your conclusions above. (And I'd aleo leave the door open to things having changed since my impressions were formed)

I left off a little bit at the end of the "thread." The thread that starts at the cradle of civilization is supposed to lead back to the student. You, your family, your community, etc are all directly connected to this thread. This part is where the controversy starts up, but it as a much bigger issue than some might think.

As you may be aware, there are competing schools of thoughts about how to weave the American fabric. I am not well versed in the language of this debate, but it seems that there are two main camps. One camp argues for Assimilation, and the other argues for Diversification (sometimes called multiculturalism). Assimilation supports univeral(ish) values, traditions, etc. Not a complete monolith, but something that might be described as homogenus with "prior" culture drizzled on for "spice". Diversification seeks the vitality of fragments loosely bound by very broad values. [NOTE: if anyone here is an expert on this PLEASE chime in.] Assimlation is that melting pot and traditional history supports that. You may be black (and thus have African ancestors) but you are part of the American myth.

So the argument about history is part of the larger issue of how we come together as a people (and indeed, if we do at all).

As a guess, the people here who feel that history as taught is "white man's history" probably lean towards diversification.

---

An additional problem is the simple issue of limited time for education. History is often not a high priority for general education, and it is losing ground to "more practical" needs. Hey, at least it is not as bad off as "pure" arts.

[rexallllsc]

Originally posted by CamEdwards
Dola



Except for those annoying Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Babylonians, slavery in America, the Civil War, the Jim Crow laws, the Civil Rights movement, etc.

For the record, all of this was in my history texts in HS...

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally posted by Easy Mac
So you say Joe African-American would respect a white teacher teaching Black history as muc has they would if an African American taught it?
I would best my entire future earnings that there would be more complaints leveled against a white teacher than a black teacher.

(Climbs onto high horse)

That might be the case - but surely by admitting that and bowing to that false peer pressure you are teaching people to be racist and intolerant, rather than teaching them to respect people for who they are and what they can do rather than their race?

I feel such an attitude has much to answer for in society (along with the attitude that people who complain loudly in shops should get their way regardless of whether they have any case - this simply causes people to act like 'arses' because they know people will give way .....).

(Asks for a hand down)

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by Fritz

So the argument about history is part of the larger issue of how we come together as a people (and indeed, if we do at all).

As a guess, the people here who feel that history as taught is "white man's history" probably lean towards diversification.

---

An additional problem is the simple issue of limited time for education. History is often not a high priority for general education, and it is losing ground to "more practical" needs. Hey, at least it is not as bad off as "pure" arts.

And this is how I was taught American History, and why European History was the other major course taught (yes, I went to a predominantly white school). American history physically only extends back past the Revolutionary war, through the years as a colony, and smacks into a wall at the point where the Americas were discovered. But, to fully understand the country's origins and the basis upon which it was formed, we needed to extend back further, studying the events that led to Colombus making his journey, and why the colonists came to the new world. To do that, we need to understand European history.

Moving forward, we covered how other parts of our population were introduced. Blacks were there nearly from the beginning, and we were taught how and why they were brought over. In the 1800's we discussed how immigrants such as the Irish came to our country, and later the Italians, etc. Then we covered the world wars, read a page or two on Nixon and Carter, and that was about it.

Are the backgrounds for non-European cultures relevant? Of course they are (oh, we did also have a "World" history class, which covered ancient civs, and the apexes of other powers such as the Japanese and Chinese dynasties).

Ah shoot, time to drive home....I'll have to check back on this later.

[Qwikshot]

At what point do we stop making excuses for race?

A person qualified to teach the course, regardless of gender, sex, or race, should be able to teach the course.

It's discriminatory to remove this teacher on basis of race, but the point is moot, because obviously, the majority of parents would not be supportive of anyone else unless they are African-American, though I wonder if the person initially hired had been some race other than white, if there would've been such a furor.

The problem I have with this is that it sets a precident that certain races should be excluded from teaching certain cultures on the basis or grounds that they would be less informed, experiences, or respected for their teachings. That's a bad precident.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally posted by SkyDog
...or what about this? SWMBO's ancestors owned slaves. Plenty of 'em. In Charleston. (True Southerners will understand the significance of this next statement.) Her maiden name is Ravenel. Does that make HER responsible for slavery???





Actually, this brings up a rather humorous situation that we have whenever the ridiculous discussion of reparations comes up. Would we have to pay 'em, or get 'em???

Umm... I hope this little anecdote has nothing at all to do with why your wife is referred to as "She Who Must Be Obeyed"

[SplitPersonality1]

Originally posted by Franklinnoble
Umm... I hope this little anecdote has nothing at all to do with why your wife is referred to as "She Who Must Be Obeyed"

Great quote Franklinnoble. Good observation.
So SkyDog, care to explain this one...

[ice4277]

Originally posted by SplitPersonality1
Great quote Franklinnoble. Good observation.
So SkyDog, care to explain this one...

That also probably helps explain why he is the H.N.I.C.

[Ben E Lou]

franklin, split, ice....ROFLMBAO!!!!

[Abe Sargent]

Should have figured that a thread ostenibly about race would make it to at least the third page.

-Anxiety