State of Console Sports Gaming

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Actually, I believe the rule is no one (except 2k) can make a 3rd party baseball game, but each company can make a 1st party baseball game for its own console. In any case, it was designed to shut down EA's baseball series and was a direct counterstrike for EA signing the NFL exclusivity deal.

That sounds right. I just couldn't recall the actual agreement.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

It's naive to think that sliders aren't used as a crutch and a way to get games out early when in this day and age all the game bugs are released with a 'we will patch it later' mentality.

Again. . . in those cases, the games aren't worth playing anyway and those same publishers would have published and released dog doo doo before sliders were even considered. Take the turnovers in Madden. the sliders didn't fix the problem. So it clearly wasn't rushed out with the idea that sliders would save them because the sliders do NOTHING to save them.

The patch mentality? That's been around for a long, long time on the PC. It's just now making it's way to consoles and it sucks. That can be attributed to rushing a title out the door.

[TroyF]

Thanks EF, I couldn't remember the exact parameters.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by TroyF

As far as the rest of our disagreements, I used to remember you as someone who cared about the simulation of the game. Somewhere along the line, you've flipped into looking as much at graphics as anything else. Nothing wrong with that, but if that's the focus, we are naturally going to be wildly different in our ideas. I hated NHL '07 and find the 2K baseball game unplayable. One was your sports game of the year and you've played the 2k game to death.

Nothing wrong with that. All an opinion thing.

I want "NEXT GEN" and that includes graphics.

NHL 07 was praised by many sports gamers and MLB 2k7 has turned out to be a great game since the patch and a great set of sliders over at OS. (without the sliders it's still a decent game out of the box)

The focus for me is "fun". Am I having fun? I can deal with some goofy stats and what not here and there.

[Galaxy]

I wonder if Microsoft will put a baseball game.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Take the turnovers in Madden. the sliders didn't fix the problem. So it clearly wasn't rushed out with the idea that sliders would save them because the sliders do NOTHING to save them.

You're assuming that the Madden developers knew:

1. That there was a significant turnover issue.

2. That they knew that the sliders would not fully fix the problem.

Both of those are pretty drastic assumptions. IMO, neither of them hold water.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You're assuming that the Madden developers knew:

1. That there was a significant turnover issue.

2. That they knew that the sliders would not fully fix the problem.

Both of those are pretty drastic assumptions. IMO, neither of them hold water.

Those are both definitely valid assumptions from a gameinformer interview. They said before the game came out that this was a significant problem that could not be fixed by sliders and that they were working on a patch. I don't have a link readily available right now, but this was talked about on OS.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Those are both definitely valid assumptions from a gameinformer interview. They said before the game came out that this was a significant problem that could not be fixed by sliders and that they were working on a patch. I don't have a link readily available right now, but this was talked about on OS.

If that is the case (and I certainly believe you wouldn't post it otherwise), it's downright deplorable. Knowingly releasing a game that is flawed at best or even broken at some level is simply unacceptable. I'm guessing EA didn't offer a refund to those who purchased a game that they knew was inherently flawed upon release. Interestingly enough, they still don't have the patch out to fix the problem.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You're assuming that the Madden developers knew:

1. That there was a significant turnover issue.

2. That they knew that the sliders would not fully fix the problem.

Both of those are pretty drastic assumptions. IMO, neither of them hold water.

EF already slammed this one down, but let me add something: the assumption is valid even without a statement from EA saying they knew.

It took less than 2 full games for people to see a turnover problem was occuring. It was so apparant that the only way EA could not have known is if there were ZERO play tests for the game. If that would have been the case, sliders would NOT HAVE BEEN THE PROBLEM. The problem would have been the lack of play testing by a large company. That means the game would have been rushed out the door with/without sliders. That's bad development, not a rush job because sliders could fix the problem.

As it is, EA did know about the problem and admitted it even before the release of the game. (because review copies of the game were cropping up with the problem and people were asking what was going on)

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I want "NEXT GEN" and that includes graphics.

NHL 07 was praised by many sports gamers and MLB 2k7 has turned out to be a great game since the patch and a great set of sliders over at OS. (without the sliders it's still a decent game out of the box)

The focus for me is "fun". Am I having fun? I can deal with some goofy stats and what not here and there.

Don't disagree with all of that. Thing is, for me fun now also = some form of realism. I couldn't have fun with Tecmo anymore. (other than a few hours of retrospection)

The NHL 07 thing showcases the type of gamer I am. Yes, it was praised by many as having a great control scheme and was "fun." The graphics were outstanding. But when I played the game, it didn't feel like hockey at all. Maybe it was one of those games that would have grown on me had I did more than just rent it. It didn't hook me enough to even get that far.

Give me average graphics and make it feel like the real thing and I'll have plenty of fun. Even if a few stats are off base.

[RainMaker]

I may be totally wrong on this, but when I play certain games, it almost feels like it's being made by people who don't watch or are fans of the sport. Take Madden for example. It just feels like it was made by someone who was told what football should be like. It doesn't flow right and they miss so many major nuances of the game. It takes playing AP2K for 5 minutes to realize they do pickup those nuances of the game.

It is kind of the feeling you'd get playing the old High Heat back in the day. You just felt the guys making it were passionate about the sport.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Don't disagree with all of that. Thing is, for me fun now also = some form of realism. I couldn't have fun with Tecmo anymore. (other than a few hours of retrospection)

The NHL 07 thing showcases the type of gamer I am. Yes, it was praised by many as having a great control scheme and was "fun." The graphics were outstanding. But when I played the game, it didn't feel like hockey at all. Maybe it was one of those games that would have grown on me had I did more than just rent it. It didn't hook me enough to even get that far.

Give me average graphics and make it feel like the real thing and I'll have plenty of fun. Even if a few stats are off base.

I would agree with that first part for sure.

I will say Tecmo Super Bowl didn't feel like a real football game to me, but it was innovative and definitely fun to play. That's all I want from a developer, give me some innovation (swing stick, shot stick, the presentation from NFL 2k5...) and have a fun game to play and I'm happy.

When I use a joystick, I expect a game to be different than real life.. who wants perfect expected results?

EA has become lazy with football because they can. You see what they are doing with hockey and basketball don't you?

[RainMaker]

Another year and really haven't seen much ground made in sports gaming. I did pick up NHL 09 and it is fantastic. Unfortunately we lost the College Hoops series which was by far my favorite. Everything else seems pretty stagnant. Football seems dead still.

[Atocep]

I spent more time with MLB 08 than any console sports game in the past 10 years and I'll be buying 09 the day its released so I wouldn't call baseball on the consoles stagnant. Well, unless you're a 360 owner.

I quit purchasing just about every other sports series on consoles for the reasons stated in this thread, though (lone exception being NCAA Football 09).

[MizzouRah]

360 owners that haven't played MLB 2k7.. should.. It's still fun to play...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I spent more time with MLB 08 than any console sports game in the past 10 years and I'll be buying 09 the day its released so I wouldn't call baseball on the consoles stagnant. Well, unless you're a 360 owner.

I quit purchasing just about every other sports series on consoles for the reasons stated in this thread, though (lone exception being NCAA Football 09).

The only reason I picked up a PS3 the other day.

I can remember waiting for release date of all the sports games when I was younger. Now I don't even care. I still play video games, but there are so few sports games that peak my interest these days.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I spent more time with MLB 08 than any console sports game in the past 10 years and I'll be buying 09 the day its released so I wouldn't call baseball on the consoles stagnant. Well, unless you're a 360 owner.

I quit purchasing just about every other sports series on consoles for the reasons stated in this thread.

[Icy]

I'm having a good year on console sports games overall.

- MLB08 on PS3 has been really great.
- NHL09 is my worst addiction in years
- FIFA09 is a good game too

I have not played any basketball title this year but i have read good things about 2k offline (online seems to have a lot of problems).

Both madden and ncaa were disappointing with the early bugs, so i just stopped to play them and did not even try them post patch.

My only disappointment this year were the football franchises.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I spent more time with MLB 08 than any console sports game in the past 10 years and I'll be buying 09 the day its released so I wouldn't call baseball on the consoles stagnant. Well, unless you're a 360 owner.

I quit purchasing just about every other sports series on consoles for the reasons stated in this thread, though (lone exception being NCAA Football 09).

This is the one game that makes me sad I went with a 360 over the PS3. I played the PS2 versions of these games for more hours than I'd care to admit. Sadly I'm not willing to buy a PS3 for basically one game and BluRay isn't enough of a draw for me yet. I will be reading reviews and impressions with envy though.

[Big Fo]

My 2008 in console sports games:

Pro Evo 2008 (Wii) - quite good, love the revolutionary controls. Building up attacks from the back has never been so fun in a soccer game, dragging your players arouned to create space, aiming exactly where you want your through balls to go, etc.

MLB the Show 08 (PS3)- pretty good, great graphics. The games took too long for me though. Sold it soon after Power Pros 2008 came out.

NCAA Football 08 (PS3) - not bad, I had skipped the last few years so this one provided a good amount of fun in dynasty mode. I never played online so the online dynasty bugs didn't bother me. Short passes were too easy and deep balls too hard to pull off IMO. Sold it shortly after Madden/Head Coach game out.

MLB Power Pros 2008 (Wii) - Adding MLB Life mode on top of Success Mode was a great addition to last year's game. I love the hitting, I just wish the AI teams threw more balls so I could draw walks. Sim stats were still bad as well. Better loading times and quicker games than MLB the Show.

Madden/Head Coach 09 package (PS3) - Madden had sick graphics but the gameplay didn't do much for me. I might have played a half dozen games since buying it. Despite a number of quirks and a month or so waiting for the patch I really enjoyed Head Coach 09. I should have just waited for that to be released on its own.

NHL 09 (PS3) - The first hockey game I bought since NHL 98 on the PC or something long ago. I'm really not all that knowledgeable when it comes to hockey so I can't judge how realistic things are compared to baseball/football/soccer but I had a lot of fun with it. Sometimes it was hard to avoid shooting when I wanted to deke and vice-versa though.

It was a pretty good year IMO. I still want to try NBA2k9 but I'd likely get that for the PC due to price/mods anyway.

[Travis]

At one point I was buying NCAA/Madden/NHL/The Show on release day and was willing to take a look at the 2K series.

Now I'm down to just NHL and the Show. I'm really impressed with this year's NHL game (loved superstar mode in Madden/NCAA so seeing it well implemented in NHL was a very nice upgrade to the series). I have the latest in the Fight Night line but if the new UFC game is good (have to figure there'll be a few issues with it given how new the line will be) then that'll be my last venture into the Fight Night series.

Overall though, as others have been mentioned, just finding it harder and harder to justify paying full price for a roster upgrade. I'm guessing at this point I'll likely update my Madden game every 3-4 years and might even drop back to picking up the Show and NHL every other year unless there is some huge upgrade that gets great reviews.

[Sweed]

I only play solo games and I'm pretty much down to a four game rotation that gets me through the year.

The Show and NBA 2k on console. FM and OOTP on the pc.

I did buy Madden again this year and liked the way the game set the level of play for me (can't even recall what they call in off the top of my head). Never had to touch a slider and had good games. However The Show and NBA 2k9 are at a whole different level than Madden when it comes to being realistic.

I also picked up NHL (2k not EA)08 when they were marked down last year and had some fun with it. I've come to realize though that I just don't have time to put into more than the four games at the top of my post. I just end up spreading myself too thin and don't complete anything. Sticking with my main four I find time to actually complete seasons. Sure just one each for NBA 2k and The Show but at 82 and 162 games respectively that's a pretty big accomplishment when you consider the time it takes. While OOTP and FM give me my career fix.

[MizzouRah]

My 360 gets a ton of playing time during the week and especially on weekends.

Besides, NCAA 09, MLB 2k7, and NHL 09.. there's Far Cry 2, Left 4 Dead, GOW 2, and Rock Band 2.. and that's just the tip of what's available.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

My 360 gets a ton of playing time during the week and especially on weekends.

Besides, NCAA 09, MLB 2k7, and NHL 09.. there's Far Cry 2, Left 4 Dead, GOW 2, and Rock Band 2.. and that's just the tip of what's available.

Oh, yeah Rock Band It is the one game I play with the wife, and kids if they are home, on the console as kind of a change up to my sports game addiction.

[rjolley]

Right now, CH 2K8 and NBA 2K8 are the only games I play on my 360. I do have plans to pick up NBA 2K9 and NCAA 09 soon, and maybe Madden 09 if I enjoy NCAA enough that I want to see how my players do in the pros.

I do miss having CH around. It and NBA 2K# were the only definite buys every year for the past 4-5 years. I definitely get my money's worth with those games.

[RainMaker]

College Hoops 2K is a huge loss to the sports gaming market. It is the game I've played the most over the years. While the NBA version is good, I enjoyed playing the college seasons more.

[ColtCrazy]

I used to buy Madden the day it came out, year after year. I stopped that in 07 and just played my older Madden. When I got a 360 this summer, I bought the new Madden and recently got NCAA. Graphically, they are a step up, but they are basically the same as the old xbox versions. I won't be getting the 2010 versions I don't think.

I did play a buddy's Wii Madden and I just loved the fact you could draw your own play (but HATED the stupid celebration dances you do after big plays). If they could add that to the 360, I'd be thrilled, but that's too much to ask for I know.

I've done the same with FIFA, just buying a version every few years. I haven't got one for the 360 yet, but the reviews seem good.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

I used to buy Madden the day it came out, year after year. I stopped that in 07 and just played my older Madden. When I got a 360 this summer, I bought the new Madden and recently got NCAA. Graphically, they are a step up, but they are basically the same as the old xbox versions. I won't be getting the 2010 versions I don't think.

I did play a buddy's Wii Madden and I just loved the fact you could draw your own play (but HATED the stupid celebration dances you do after big plays). If they could add that to the 360, I'd be thrilled, but that's too much to ask for I know.

I've done the same with FIFA, just buying a version every few years. I haven't got one for the 360 yet, but the reviews seem good.

The sad thing is that Madden had a more complex custom playbook system 20 years ago than it does today. I remember building some sweet playbooks and plays back in the day on the computer.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The sad thing is that Madden had a more complex custom playbook system 20 years ago than it does today. I remember building some sweet playbooks and plays back in the day on the computer.

Yep. It was around '85-'86 because a friend of mine and I built the 46 defense with the Bears.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Yep. It was around '85-'86 because a friend of mine and I built the 46 defense with the Bears.

I built some really cool option plays out of some wacky formations. Was a ton of fun.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

I've done the same with FIFA, just buying a version every few years. I haven't got one for the 360 yet, but the reviews seem good.

FIFA 09 is a blast on the 360. The career mode needs some improvements, but gameplay is great and 10 vs. 10 online via xbox live is tremendous fun (even when playing w/ idiots).

I also enjoyed HeadCoach this year for what it was.

Everything else, blah.