All Time Greatest Actor/Actress

[RendeR]

Watch "On Golden Pond" take your pick.

[revrew]

(The following is corrected for my brief lapse into stupidity, citing the wrong name)

Gregory Peck (not Gary Cooper per my previous post) deserves special mention, IMO. I forget who, but one of those Hollywood rags compiled a list of the 10 greatest villains and 10 greatest movie heroes of all time. Peck, if I remember right, was #1 in BOTH categories. THAT'S range. (BTW, villain was Captain Ahab of Moby Dick, and hero was Atticus Finch of To Kill a Mockingbird).

For more modern times, I'm a big fan of Dustin Hoffman. Gotta admit, as hard as it is to say it, Johnny Depp has indeed shown crazy range.

Would have to think for a while about actresses. Call me sexist, I guess. Or maybe it's just that actresses are so often seen in a supporting role. Some that I know are quite good - Meryl Streep - etc, I personally can't stand, nor can I stand the movies where they are highlighted, so my opinions of them may be skewed.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by revrew

Gary Cooper deserves special mention, IMO. I forget who, but one of those Hollywood rags compiled a list of the 10 greatest villains and 10 greatest movie heroes of all time. Coop, if I remember right, was #1 in BOTH categories. THAT'S range. (BTW, villain was Captain Ahab of Moby Dick, and hero was Atticus Finch of To Kill a Mockingbird).

Gregory Peck was Atticus Finch. Had to have been a different role for Cooper.

[cuervo72]

Dola - but Gary Cooper was super duper.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Dola - but Gary Cooper was super duper.

[Buccaneer]

Repeating what I just said in the Dark Knight thread. To me, a great actor or performance is someone playing a role that is so different than what the person is like, that you cannot believe that it is him. Ledger's Joker was perhaps the best I have ever seen.

[Edward64]

Sorry, not all are great actors but ones that I really enjoy. In no particular order

Nicholas Cage, John Travolta - I am impressed with their longevity and the
range of movies they have starred in. Whenever Saturday Night Fever comes on when I am flipping channels, I still have to pause a watch a little of it.

Matt Damon - mentioned specifically for his Bourne films which I really enjoy. Acting is somewhat bland.

Al Pacino - his Godfather role set the standard for me, all his other movies do not measure up and therefore disappoint by default.

Tom Cruise - okay, not for his acting or religion but com'on ... Top Gun, Risky Business, MI series, Taps etc. His movies have entertained me from my teens through current. I have to give him kudos for that.

Robert Duvall - ditto with above. Gene Hackman was also mentioned but I never got into his movies.

... to be continued with the female actresses.

[Sgran]

If we're talking best body of work, factoring in range:
Philip S. Hoffman - what can't he do?
Robert Downey - if you need proof of how much better he is than average actors, just watch Scanner Darkly
Deniro
Jack Lemon
Morgan Freeman - though I'd like to see him challenged with a really off the wall role. I think he'd come through. Like if he'd had Keanu's role in Scanner Darkly.
DD Lewis
Malkovich - I'd just like to mention that his role in Being John Malkovich is the most underrated performance of all time. I seriously think he fooled people into thinking he was playing himself.

I'm having a hard time coming up with women. Meryl Streep. Maybe Catherine Keener?

[JPhillips]

Range is over rated IMO. Many other cultures have actors who specialize in one character type for their entire career. There's great value in mastering a type over years of work ala Cary Grant or Clint Eastwood.

[Anthony]

yeah, actresses aren't memorable these days.

there's no difference in Jennifer Aniston, Katherine Heigl or Sandra Bullock or Eva Mendes or Kiera Knightley or Kate Winslett. all the same person, you can interchange without missing a beat.

of course you can always say there may not be any good roles out there for women to showcase their stuff. i think the problem we're seeing is like for an emotional character or scene that requires passion/sadness/frailty - these are traits all women possess to some varying degree. i know this will come off bad, but its the same as the saying "all black people can sing". even the worst talented woman who acts can still be able to tap into her emotional side, there isn't any "stepping outside the box" or "going outside their element" for that sort of stuff.

take a role like the Joker played by Ledger. now that's acting. who even sees Heath Ledger in that role? who sees Johnny Depp when he plays Capt Jack? the scene where the Joker is in jail and handcuffed to a wall and a cop says he's gonna enjoy kicking the shit out of him and the camera cuts back to the Joker and he just rolls his eyes and licks his lips - i truly saw someone who just didn't give a fucking shit at all. acting with your eyes? c'mon. that can't be taught. you have to have that ability inside you already.


this is what i'm talking about:


this guy looks like he could care less.

[Buccaneer]

take a role like the Joker played by Ledger. now that's acting. who even sees Heath Ledger in that role?

Since we haven't gotten the DVD with the extra stuff, I've been trying since yesterday to find him that role. I looked at a number of youtube makeup and interview clips but still nothing satisfies. It's not like he's under tons off cover-ups or CGI, there's enough of him to be visible and audible. Depp is close, esp. when you compare Sparrow to Wonka to Sweeney Tood.

JPhillips: I obviously take the opposite view and have to agree to disagree, yet again.

[JPhillips]

Buc: We'll probably disagree more than you know. This is really a question about American film actors, a mode that's almost entirely based on realism. Nothing wrong with that, but it's just a single type of "acting". Where does Bill Irwin's clowning fit in? Or Avner the Eccentric? Or Balinese temple dancer, I Nyoman Catra, perhaps the most skilled performer I've ever seen? How do you compare Ledger to a man that can improv in five different languages while moving with such incredible precision that his eyes and pinkies are continually expressive? Nyoman likely couldn't figure out how to do the Joker, but Ledger would be equally lost outside of his specialty.

This is just a bugaboo of mine as I'm trying to teach students there's far more to acting than American film realism.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Anthony

yeah, actresses aren't memorable these days.

there's no difference in Jennifer Aniston, Katherine Heigl or Sandra Bullock or Eva Mendes or Kiera Knightley or Kate Winslett. all the same person, you can interchange without missing a beat.

Gonna have to call you on Kate Winslett...She definitely stands out from the others there. I'd say four of your six can't really even act well at all.

[Anthony]

why? cuz Winslett was in Titanic? let me give you some info - you could've dressed a monkey in a wig and Titanic still would've been one of the highest grossing movies of all time. why do you think most summer blockbuster movies fare well? they all have the air of "this is something big". they do well regardless of who's in them. not saying Titantic was a summer blockbuster, its just it was a big movie and Kate Winslett being in it didn't put it over the top nor detract. she was a neutral force on the movie. no matter what she does in her life she'll always be "that actress from one of the biggest movies of all time", so yeah, you would tend to pick her out of a lineup featuring some of those other actresses.

no actress in the last 20 years could pull off doing what Ledger did with the Joker, you now, going to that dark place inside them and bringing out a completely different character. what actress is asked to do that? ok, maybe Theron in Monster (i didn't see this one) and perhaps Halle Berry's role in Monster's Ball (i saw it and was pleased with her performance). mostly, like i pointed out before, actresses are asked to bring out a performance and draw on emotions that most any non-acting female is able to tap into. there's a reason why you don't see any females mentioned as "method actors" - none are asked to become anyone else. its always basically a woman being asked to act like another woman. they're not asked to become anyone, just to imitate what a woman would do in this situation.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Anthony

why? cuz Winslett was in Titanic? let me give you some info - you could've dressed a monkey in a wig and Titanic still would've been one of the highest grossing movies of all time. why do you think most summer blockbuster movies fare well? they all have the air of "this is something big". they do well regardless of who's in them. not saying Titantic was a summer blockbuster, its just it was a big movie and Kate Winslett being in it didn't put it over the top nor detract. she was a neutral force on the movie. no matter what she does in her life she'll always be "that actress from one of the biggest movies of all time", so yeah, you would tend to pick her out of a lineup featuring some of those other actresses.

no actress in the last 20 years could pull off doing what Ledger did with the Joker, you now, going to that dark place inside them and bringing out a completely different character. what actress is asked to do that? ok, maybe Theron in Monster (i didn't see this one) and perhaps Halle Berry's role in Monster's Ball (i saw it and was pleased with her performance). mostly, like i pointed out before, actresses are asked to bring out a performance and draw on emotions that most any non-acting female is able to tap into. there's a reason why you don't see any females mentioned as "method actors" - none are asked to become anyone else. its always basically a woman being asked to act like another woman. they're not asked to become anyone, just to imitate what a woman would do in this situation.

You're kidding on Winslett, right? That's one of the silliest comments I've ever seen -- saying it's all about Titanic for her.

As for why we don't see actresses do what Ledger or Hopkins does isn't because they can't. It's because it won't appeal to women and therefore won't sell. Never saw Monster and I'm guessing a vast majority of people never did either. Men? Perhaps....women? I would guess very few. Never saw Monster's Ball and I'm guessing a vast majority of people never did either. Men? Perhaps....women? I would guess very few.

Women want to see depth to their characters and feel as if they're seeing someone they can relate too where as men, many times, are looking for the exact opposite. They want to see someone be very different from themselves because we think this is "real" acting. Acting for women is COMPLETELY different for men. They get something entirely different from the experience and want something completely different from the experience.

[Buccaneer]

Acting for women is COMPLETELY different for men. They get something entirely different from the experience and want something completely different from the experience.

I'll go along with that.

[Noop]

I think Charlize Theron in Monster is on par with Ledger, her performance is truly good. I found out after the fact that she was in that film, my reaction was of surprised because Charlize Theron is beautiful. Yet in the film she is not even recognizable and she is very unattractive.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by rowech

You're kidding on Winslett, right? That's one of the silliest comments I've ever seen -- saying it's all about Titanic for her.

what varied and extensive roles has she played? if someone says "quick - name one movie that best personifies the best of Winslet" your probable 1st answer would be "Titanic". say the same thing about De Niro or Depp you're gonna hesitate for a second or two. i'm not impressed by Winslet.

i would put my money on Reese Witherspoon being the best actress of our/her generation. between Cruel Intentions, Legally Blonde, Walk the Line and Rendition - those are very different characters.

[Autumn]

I don't think that's right on Winslet at all. I certainly wouldn't pick Titanic as her key performance, although I actually think she was very good in it. That scene on the deck where she first sees Jack's drawings she does some remarkable acting with just her expression.

However, I would say maybe Beautiful Creatures would be her defining role. She has quite a number of possibilities though and Titanic wouldn't be tops on the list.

However, I don't agree at all about your thoughts on women actors so we probably will just agree to disagree.

[korme]

Cate Blanchett, guys.

[judicial clerk]

Daniel-Day Lewis hands down. Hime playing Bill the Butcher in Gangs of New York was the best acting I've ever seen.

Thank you.

and perhaps Halle Berry's role in Monster's Ball (i saw it and was pleased with her performance

I bet you were.

dont forget Joh C. Reilly and Julianne Moore.

My top two currently working would be Jodie Foster and Daniel Day Lewis.

[Scoobz0202]

Add me to the Kate Winslet fan club. In my opinion, she'll go down as one of the greatest actresses in film history when it's all said and done.

[Grammaticus]

Winslet is a brittish Drew Barrymore and she doesn't act any better. I think she is a good actress (as is Berrymore), but don't see her as one of the greats.

[chadritt]

Anthony, just curious....does the fact Kate Winslet won both Best Actress and Best Supporting Actress tonight affect your opinion of her at all? At the very least it should show shes considered by her peers to be head and shoulders above those other actresses you mentioned.

[Tigercat]

If I had to choose an actor to thaw out in his prime to carry my movie, my choice in order of preference:

Bogart
Brando
Peck
Stewart

[ISiddiqui]

Personally I think Winslet is brilliant. And, to me, her defining role isn't "Titanic" but "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind", in which I thought she was absolutely brilliant.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Sgran

Morgan Freeman - though I'd like to see him challenged with a really off the wall role. I think he'd come through. Like if he'd had Keanu's role in Scanner Darkly.

Have you seen him in The Power of One? It isn't a wild and crazy role, but his acting as a beaten down prisoner in a South African camp is different than his more usual role and was very good.

For top women actors, I'd put Jodie Foster very high on the list.