A top 5 college team versus the Detroit Lions - Page 2

LloydLungs · 01-02-2009, 09:42 AM

I think that Tigercat's opinion is understandable given his location. For anyone whose primary exposure to the Detroit Lions was their week 16 game against the Saints... well, I would contend that a great college team could have taken the Lions that day. Absolutely. And I would submit that anyone who sat down and watched that abortion from start to finish would feel the same way.

Now, Detroit has played several better games than that... that wretched mess of a team we saw against the Saints actually had the Colts tied in the 4th quarter one week before.

larrymcg421 · 01-02-2009, 10:04 AM

Orlovsky will look like a stud when he has all the time in the world to throw the ball and he finds Calvin Johnson down the field making some USC Cornerback look silly.

DanGarion · 01-02-2009, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Honestly .. Calvin Johnson as a 2nd year pro vs a Sophmore DB.

6'5, 240, 4.3 forty for 5'10, 180, 4.6.

It'd be a rout .. as sad as that is.

DeToxRox · 01-02-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Regardless, the fact is Calvin has thrown around guys like Charles Woodson, Ronde Barber, etc.

He would kill a college DB. No doubt in my mind.

This entire thing is laughable.

DeToxRox · 01-02-2009, 10:25 AM

And like someone said .. Shaun Cody was the most dominate USC DL this decade and hes a backup on the worst DL in football.

larrymcg421 · 01-02-2009, 10:29 AM

And just think, how many people on USC do you think will make the NFL? You don't honestly think all 22 starters are going to make it. They have several starters who won't even be good enough to make the Lions practice squad.

Eaglesfan27 · 01-02-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

And like someone said .. Shaun Cody was the most dominate USC DL this decade and hes a backup on the worst DL in football.

I think Sedrick Ellis was more dominant than Cody, but now that the glow of the game is over, I'd change my vote to the Lions as well.

Noop · 01-02-2009, 10:44 AM

The Lions would dominate any college team and would beat a team of college all stars as well. The NFL game is going at 100 mph for these pros and giving them a college opponent will seem like the game is in slow motion. The reaction time of the pro's is down right scary even for the worst team in the NFL.

Those college kids would have their heads spinning as the defense confuses them and disguises what they are doing. Even on the offense they would be confused as pros would lull them to sleep with the run game and then hit a play action over the team.

The probability of a college team beating the Lions exist but those are some astronomical odds.

Samdari · 01-02-2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Apples and Oranges. We aren't talking one college player. We are talking a talented college team with team chemistry and cohesion playing a untalented NFL team without cohesion.

Your assessment of the talent levels are the apples and oranges.

The Lions are untalented compared to NFL standards.

The top 5 college teams are talented by college standards.

Yet, unquestionably, the Lions have better players, position by position than any college team. Hell, there is only a 50% shot at best that Bradford is a better pro QB than Orlovsky, and he is one of the places the Lions are weak compared to the rest of the NFL.

Tigercat · 01-02-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

The probability of a college team beating the Lions exist but those are some astronomical odds.

That's pretty much what I am saying, although I don't think I would say astronomical. Lots of people might have said astronomical about team USA's chances in hockey, App St chances at Michigan, ect. And it didn't take a million hockey matchups like that one or a million good 1A team vs 1AA games for those results to happen.

My point is crazy things can happen in sports, and a cohesive team can make up more ground in football than many football fans give credit for.

Big Fo · 01-02-2009, 11:42 AM

What if a coach selected the best players from the top 5 college teams? That squad might be able to squeak a victory if they played ten times but would still get blown out in most IMO.

Young Drachma · 01-02-2009, 11:49 AM

I think people underestimate how a well-coached hungry team would play against a team full of overpaid NFL players who don't care, probably wouldn't play hard to risk injury and wouldn't take them seriously.

Especially if said hungry team was well coached. Lots of ifs, but..this whole thing is the great big If to begin with.

Noop · 01-02-2009, 11:52 AM

Pride is a strange thing and would make the Lions hurt a college team.

larrymcg421 · 01-02-2009, 11:56 AM

A Lions team that didn't care would still win by 3-4 TD's.

SFL Cat · 01-03-2009, 09:08 AM

I won't say it couldn't happen, but I would say it's a definite longshot.

Most college players say the biggest adjustment to the pros is the speed of the game. Even one of the top college programs would struggle against an 0-16 pro team.

rowech · 01-03-2009, 09:23 AM

To change the question a bit...what about the top 53 college players...whoever they may be, let's say we select them correctly. That team have a chance against the Lions?

SFL Cat · 01-03-2009, 09:25 AM

I'd give them a much better chance, but I'd still go with the pro team most of the time. Veterans school rookies.

For reference see history of preseason college all-star game.

bhlloy · 01-03-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

I'd give them a much better chance, but I'd still go with the pro team most of the time. Veterans school rookies.

For reference see history of preseason college all-star game.

But... these aren't rookies. These are freshmen, sophs, juniors and even the seniors are 6 months and an NFL training camp/workout regime from being rookies. And, on top of that, many of the guys on USC's roster aren't even good enough to smell an NFL roster. 2 guys on USC's championship team from 5 years ago aren't good enough to start on the Lions.

I don't think the gap between college and NFL was anywhere near as big back when they played the preseason game. This argument is probably going down the lines of "could x player from the past hang in today's game"

EagleFan · 01-03-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustang

Not like this is unprecedented. Chicago Charities College All-Star Game was a preseason exhibition of the NFL Champs vs College Seniors. The champs were 31-9-2.. although, it was preseason so who knows really how hard anyone tried.

If USC and the Lions played 100 times, I'd imagine USC would get a few wins, but I'd easily put my $ on the Lions.

The difference there is not only preseason meaningless game for the NFL squad but the college squad was made up of generally the best of the senior class. That is much different than just one single college team which cannot come close to matching up position for position. 31-9-2 is a largely lopsided series record and that is against all-stars. Take that down to just a single team and it's no contest.

EagleFan · 01-03-2009, 12:14 PM

dola: Wow, 11 people actually think college would win? Who are these people?

Shkspr · 01-03-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

dola: Wow, 11 people actually think college would win? Who are these people?

My money's on them being the starting offensive unit for the Lions.

Honolulu Blue · 01-05-2009, 08:51 AM

It's been interesting reading this thread. My money is on the Lions winning MOST of the time, but I have a few comments:

* Timing would matter a lot. The college team would have a better chance in November/December than they would in August.
* Incentives would matter some. If somehow the college team could play for money or additional prestige, that would help them. If the Lions would win a XFL-style bounty for winning, that would help them.
* I miss the days when MLB teams used to play in-season exhibitions against their various minor league teams. That would be the best comparison to this situation. The major league teams won most of the time, but the minor league teams won occasionally.
* Then there's the Harlem Globetrotters vs. their usual patsy (the Generals/Nationals/whomever). The Trotters are VERY good, though perhaps not NBA quality. It's hard to gauge how good the patsy is, since (1) their job is to not interfere with the clowning around, and (2) they so rarely win. But they have won a time or two.
* I'd take the best college team (whomever that is) under their best conditions at 10-1 or better vs. the Lions.

albionmoonlight · 01-05-2009, 09:03 AM

The Lions without a doubt.

The very very best players from USC, Florida, etc. will, in a few months, try to just make an NFL roster. A few of them actually will be good enough to stick. A few of those will be good enough to start. A few of those will be good enough to be NFL stars. And maybe one of two of those will actually be stars as rookies.

There is just no comparison.

I think that a more interesting question is what kinds of odds would you have to get to take the college team in this game.

Pumpy Tudors · 01-05-2009, 10:13 AM

I'm honestly not sure either way, but I will say this:

The Lions do not have 22 NFL starters. Well, nominally, they do. Realistically, they don't. Seriously, how many of the Lions would crack the starting lineup of another NFL team? How many of the Detroit backups would even make it onto most other teams' active rosters?

Let's not forget that this Detroit lineup is an epic collection of suck right now. Just because they played 16 games against NFL teams doesn't mean that these guys are legitimate NFL talent.

Now, I'm not saying I think the college team would win, but I understand those who do.

Neuqua · 01-05-2009, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

The Lions without a doubt.

I think that a more interesting question is what kinds of odds would you have to get to take the college team in this game.

Paging Dr. Quiksand...

Samdari · 01-05-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu Blue

* I miss the days when MLB teams used to play in-season exhibitions against their various minor league teams. That would be the best comparison to this situation. The major league teams won most of the time, but the minor league teams won occasionally.

I don't think that is a very good comparison at all. The MLB players hated those games. The starters would play until 1 at bat and then leave. The major league team would never, ever waste real pitchers' arms in these things, they usually imported 3-4 A ball pitchers to pitch for the major league team, and they would pitch a predetermined number of innings (which would now probably be pitches). The players and managers never cared about the outcome of the game at all.

This is ignoring the fact that AAA players are usually professionals several years removed from amateur play, or the commonly held perception that AAA baseball is closer to MLB than NCAA football is to NFL football.

Honolulu Blue · 01-05-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samdari

I don't think that is a very good comparison at all. The MLB players hated those games. The starters would play until 1 at bat and then leave. The major league team would never, ever waste real pitchers' arms in these things, they usually imported 3-4 A ball pitchers to pitch for the major league team, and they would pitch a predetermined number of innings (which would now probably be pitches). The players and managers never cared about the outcome of the game at all.

This is ignoring the fact that AAA players are usually professionals several years removed from amateur play, or the commonly held perception that AAA baseball is closer to MLB than NCAA football is to NFL football.

I agree with everything you said in the first paragraph, other than the first sentence. If the Lions and USC (for example) were scheduled to play in August, the home team would do the same sort of things - sign some extra bodies, limit playing time, have a don't-care attitude, etc. That's why I think it would be a good comparison, and why the Lions wouldn't necessarily run away with the game.

Considering most NFL players come to the league straight from a NCAA team out of the draft - something only the tiniest fraction of MLB players have ever done - I'd consider a comparison between NCAA and AAA apt. But that's a subject for another time and another thread.

molson · 01-05-2009, 07:08 PM

The Lions had a historically bad team in terms of W/L record, but I don't think they're some kind of actual historical anomaly in terms of talent level. There's a ton of parity in the NFL in terms of access to players. It's not like the Lions were out of their league, they were within 10 points in about half their games, and there were only 2-3 massive blowouts.

Their point differential was -249. The Rams weren't all that much better at -233. Their team performance stats are bad, and at or near the bottom of in most categories, but again, even where they're dead last, they're not really that must worse than the other bad teams.

0-16 is a fluky thing, there's plenty of teams over the years that could have done that with the right (wrong) breaks.

And NFL team would murder any college team, to a greater extent than in any other sport. The closest would probably definitely be basketball, at least in the days when players stayed past their freshman year. 5 X 5, where all 5 college players would be serious NBA contributors in a year or two, they might be able to steal 1 or 2 out of 10 games against an NBA team.

View Poll Results: Who wins between a top 5 team and the Lions?
The College team(s) (post your choice in the thread)	11	10.00%
The Lions	97	88.18%
The Lions couldn't beat a school of trout, let alone a college team.	2	1.82%
Voters: 110. You may not vote on this poll

01-02-2009, 10:04 AM	#52
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	Orlovsky will look like a stud when he has all the time in the world to throw the ball and he finds Calvin Johnson down the field making some USC Cornerback look silly. __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

01-02-2009, 10:29 AM	#56
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	And just think, how many people on USC do you think will make the NFL? You don't honestly think all 22 starters are going to make it. They have several starters who won't even be good enough to make the Lions practice squad. __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

01-02-2009, 10:44 AM	#58
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	The Lions would dominate any college team and would beat a team of college all stars as well. The NFL game is going at 100 mph for these pros and giving them a college opponent will seem like the game is in slow motion. The reaction time of the pro's is down right scary even for the worst team in the NFL. Those college kids would have their heads spinning as the defense confuses them and disguises what they are doing. Even on the offense they would be confused as pros would lull them to sleep with the run game and then hit a play action over the team. The probability of a college team beating the Lions exist but those are some astronomical odds. __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

01-02-2009, 11:49 AM	#62
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	I think people underestimate how a well-coached hungry team would play against a team full of overpaid NFL players who don't care, probably wouldn't play hard to risk injury and wouldn't take them seriously. Especially if said hungry team was well coached. Lots of ifs, but..this whole thing is the great big If to begin with. __________________ Current Dynasty:The Zenith of Professional Basketball Careers (FBPB/FBCB) FBCB / FPB3 Mods Last edited by Young Drachma : 01-02-2009 at 11:51 AM.

01-02-2009, 10:25 AM	#55
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	And like someone said .. Shaun Cody was the most dominate USC DL this decade and hes a backup on the worst DL in football.

01-02-2009, 11:42 AM	#61
Big Fo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2005	What if a coach selected the best players from the top 5 college teams? That squad might be able to squeak a victory if they played ten times but would still get blown out in most IMO.

01-02-2009, 11:52 AM	#63
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	Pride is a strange thing and would make the Lions hurt a college team. __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

01-02-2009, 11:56 AM	#64
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	A Lions team that didn't care would still win by 3-4 TD's. __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

01-03-2009, 09:08 AM	#65
SFL Cat College Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: South Florida	I won't say it couldn't happen, but I would say it's a definite longshot. Most college players say the biggest adjustment to the pros is the speed of the game. Even one of the top college programs would struggle against an 0-16 pro team. Last edited by SFL Cat : 01-03-2009 at 09:10 AM.

01-03-2009, 09:23 AM	#66
rowech Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2006	To change the question a bit...what about the top 53 college players...whoever they may be, let's say we select them correctly. That team have a chance against the Lions?

01-03-2009, 09:25 AM	#67
SFL Cat College Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: South Florida	I'd give them a much better chance, but I'd still go with the pro team most of the time. Veterans school rookies. For reference see history of preseason college all-star game.

01-03-2009, 12:14 PM	#70
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	dola: Wow, 11 people actually think college would win? Who are these people?

01-05-2009, 08:51 AM	#72
Honolulu Blue Dynasty Boy Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Michigan	It's been interesting reading this thread. My money is on the Lions winning MOST of the time, but I have a few comments: * Timing would matter a lot. The college team would have a better chance in November/December than they would in August. * Incentives would matter some. If somehow the college team could play for money or additional prestige, that would help them. If the Lions would win a XFL-style bounty for winning, that would help them. * I miss the days when MLB teams used to play in-season exhibitions against their various minor league teams. That would be the best comparison to this situation. The major league teams won most of the time, but the minor league teams won occasionally. * Then there's the Harlem Globetrotters vs. their usual patsy (the Generals/Nationals/whomever). The Trotters are VERY good, though perhaps not NBA quality. It's hard to gauge how good the patsy is, since (1) their job is to not interfere with the clowning around, and (2) they so rarely win. But they have won a time or two. * I'd take the best college team (whomever that is) under their best conditions at 10-1 or better vs. the Lions.

01-05-2009, 09:03 AM	#73
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	The Lions without a doubt. The very very best players from USC, Florida, etc. will, in a few months, try to just make an NFL roster. A few of them actually will be good enough to stick. A few of those will be good enough to start. A few of those will be good enough to be NFL stars. And maybe one of two of those will actually be stars as rookies. There is just no comparison. I think that a more interesting question is what kinds of odds would you have to get to take the college team in this game.

01-05-2009, 10:13 AM	#74
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	I'm honestly not sure either way, but I will say this: The Lions do not have 22 NFL starters. Well, nominally, they do. Realistically, they don't. Seriously, how many of the Lions would crack the starting lineup of another NFL team? How many of the Detroit backups would even make it onto most other teams' active rosters? Let's not forget that this Detroit lineup is an epic collection of suck right now. Just because they played 16 games against NFL teams doesn't mean that these guys are legitimate NFL talent. Now, I'm not saying I think the college team would win, but I understand those who do. __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

01-05-2009, 07:08 PM	#78
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	The Lions had a historically bad team in terms of W/L record, but I don't think they're some kind of actual historical anomaly in terms of talent level. There's a ton of parity in the NFL in terms of access to players. It's not like the Lions were out of their league, they were within 10 points in about half their games, and there were only 2-3 massive blowouts. Their point differential was -249. The Rams weren't all that much better at -233. Their team performance stats are bad, and at or near the bottom of in most categories, but again, even where they're dead last, they're not really that must worse than the other bad teams. 0-16 is a fluky thing, there's plenty of teams over the years that could have done that with the right (wrong) breaks. And NFL team would murder any college team, to a greater extent than in any other sport. The closest would probably definitely be basketball, at least in the days when players stayed past their freshman year. 5 X 5, where all 5 college players would be serious NBA contributors in a year or two, they might be able to steal 1 or 2 out of 10 games against an NBA team.

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